Anglicans Fearing Permanent Split Over Gay Marriage as Bishops Threaten to Walk Out

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mjwise said:
35 years? The breakaway groups go back to when the US was barely a country. In the 19th century, groups left in a huff because there were too many candles on what was suspiciously starting to look too much like an altar (and not a communion table) and priests were wearing too many vestments and making too many hand motions (encroaching Romishness!). The Methodists were themselves a breakaway group in the 1790’s. What is prescribed by The Book of Common Prayer was apparently just not enough for some people.
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But how relevant is that to the discussion?
 
mjwise said:
35 years? The breakaway groups go back to when the US was barely a country. In the 19th century, groups left in a huff because there were too many candles on what was suspiciously starting to look too much like an altar (and not a communion table) and priests were wearing too many vestments and making too many hand motions (encroaching Romishness!). The Methodists were themselves a breakaway group in the 1790’s. What is prescribed by The Book of Common Prayer was apparently just not enough for some people.
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I’m referring to the breaks commencing following the St. Louis meeting in 1978, as you likely recognize, the liturgical and sacramental issues you …hmm…allude to being the origins of that first wave of departing faithful. The allusion you appear to be making to the REC break in 1873 is a rough analog, though much more in the nature of the internecine struggles endemic in Anglicanism, than the same sex issues that drive the heart of the conflict currently. And beyond the world of Anglicanism, of course.

While not my cup of tea, the REC is still around, too.
 
The Anglican Cummunion needs prayer that , by God’s grace , the liberal bishops come to the truth on sexuality.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
I disagree with you. People say and do all sorts of things. There is no way to judge. There are some people out there right now I scratch my head over. Really? You love Christ? And then you go and treat someone HOW?

There was/is a radio station here in Northern California whose owner had been host of a call in show for decades. And about 4-5 years ago he predicted that the end of the world, well the rapture, was coming on May 21st. He had people selling all their possessions and getting all worked up because God told him the end was near. He also counseled people in way that was horrible. All in Christ’s name.

I have no doubt that he was a very devout and prayerful man who loved Jesus. But when he died a few years ago, I said a prayer for him and asked Jesus, quite honestly, to have a long talk with him about the havoc he caused. It was not in the name of Christ at all.

All I’m trying to say is that we cannot ever know what goes on between a person and God. Fruits of one’s life may give us a hint, but not always. And words? Even credal words… not always.
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👍
 
mjwise said:
As has been discussed in another recently on this forum, RCs are losing adherents even faster than the mainlines
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The Catholic Church continues to show net growth particularly in the African and Asian regions. The American experience may be what the poster of the mentioned thread is thinking of. I’ve heard of people “leaving” the Catholic Church but I am a witness to the growth of the Church where I live. Surprisingly, the demographics I’m seeing are young adults and working families coming to the Masses! The lines for Confession are also getting longer (good sign of true faith!) and there are more and more “visitors” meaning non-Catholics who are showing up for the first time. Very interesting to me and encouraging! 👍
 
808Catholic said:
The Catholic Church continues to show net growth particularly in the African and Asian regions. The American experience may be what the poster of the mentioned thread is thinking of. I’ve heard of people “leaving” the Catholic Church but I am a witness to the growth of the Church where I live. Surprisingly, the demographics I’m seeing are young adults and working families coming to the Masses! The lines for Confession are also getting longer (good sign of true faith!) and there are more and more “visitors” meaning non-Catholics who are showing up for the first time. Very interesting to me and encouraging! 👍
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All depends on where you live. Overall the Catholic Church is holding steady according to polling numbers wise. But it’s shrinking as a percentage of the population due to population growth. And mind you this includes immigrant numbers being included. Remove immigrants from the equation and the RCC is in just as bad of shape as most of mainline Protestantism as well in the US.

Which shouldn’t shock anyone. Most of Christianity has been reeling the last 60 years in the US and it’s only getting worse. And generationally the Millennial generation is eschewing religion in very large numbers.
 
808Catholic said:
Let’s pray for the Anglican church and their leaders as we prayed for the Catholic Church and leaders that they decide to do what’s right (by God) and not expedient/popular for PC sake. :gopray:
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Yes, this is it. Necessity.
 
Padres1969 said:
All depends on where you live. Overall the Catholic Church is holding steady according to polling numbers wise. But it’s shrinking as a percentage of the population due to population growth. And mind you this includes immigrant numbers being included. Remove immigrants from the equation and the RCC is in just as bad of shape as most of mainline Protestantism as well in the US.

Which shouldn’t shock anyone. Most of Christianity has been reeling the last 60 years in the US and it’s only getting worse. And generationally the Millennial generation is eschewing religion in very large numbers.
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Numbers are not relevant, in terms of Truth. People in all churches, and no church, are being impacted by an increasingly powerful secular culture. We all get most of our sermons from the media. Whether the Anglican Church is growing or shrinking in a given time or place tells us nothing about whether they are a true or false guide for me, personally.
 
commenter said:
Numbers are not relevant, in terms of Truth. People in all churches, and no church, are being impacted by an increasingly powerful secular culture. We all get most of our sermons from the media. Whether the Anglican Church is growing or shrinking in a given time or place tells us nothing about whether they are a true or false guide for me, personally.
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I never said anything regarding truth, simply numbers. Fact is most Christian denominations including Anglicanism and Catholicism are feeling the pinch in the US numbers wise, irrespective of truth.

But I will agree for me the numbers also have no impact one way or the other on truth.
 
commenter said:
Numbers are not relevant, in terms of Truth. People in all churches, and no church, are being impacted by an increasingly powerful secular culture. We all get most of our sermons from the media. Whether the Anglican Church is growing or shrinking in a given time or place tells us nothing about whether they are a true or false guide for me, personally.
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Me either.
 
commenter said:
“A New New Testament” was written in 2013, by a council that voted on which gospels and other books should be added. For instance the Gospel of Thomas and Mary, along with several other “new” books, were published as scripture in “A New New Testament” not in an appendix but alongside, mixed in among books like Luke, Romans, etc. The president of the United Church of Christ, Geoffrey Black, was among the adders of new NT books. The recommendation by “A New New Testament” was for congregations to gradually filter the new books into worship services and Sunday School as *scriptures *- scriptures equal to the familiar 27. In other words, these are not proposed as study guides for historical background to scripture, but **as **scripture.

I have only heard of a few congregations actually using these “scriptures” as scriptures, so far. Since Geoffrey Black is no longer president of the UCC, perhaps it is unfair to characterize this as the current denominational position. If I am wrong, I regret my reference to that denomination as unfair.
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I was unaware of the compilation but I did find this one congregation’s Thursday night Bible study group studying it between the hrs of 6p-730p in April 2014, along with some background information about the texts. Representatives from diverse Christian traditions considered which non-canonical texts might be of some usefulness for the spiritual lives of some people today.

sfstjohnsucc.org/studying-a-new-new-testament/

It is worth noting that individual UCC congregations are not bound by hierarchal control, each local church is autonomous.

But perhaps most importantly to note which you failed to do, is that “the 19-member council that compiled the texts consisted of biblical scholars, leaders in several Christian denominations — Episcopal, Roman Catholic, United Methodist, United Church of Christ and Lutheran”.

religionnews.com/2013/03/28/scholars-piece-together-a-new-new-testament/
 
“Every man must do two things alone; he must do his own believing and his own dying.”
Martin Luther
 
Peter_J said:
Luther? How did he get in here?
  • Bing Crosby
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Where I go, Luther goes.
  • FollowChrist34
I do benefits for all religions – I’d hate to blow the hereafter on a technicality.
  • Bob Hope
 
Sy_Noe said:
I

But perhaps most importantly to note which you failed to do, is that “the 19-member council that compiled the texts consisted of biblical scholars, leaders in several Christian denominations — Episcopal, Roman Catholic, United Methodist, United Church of Christ and Lutheran”.

religionnews.com/2013/03/28/scholars-piece-together-a-new-new-testament/
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It said scholars, not persons in the RCC with authority to decide on the matter. Besides, the probable Catholics in the list are nuns from the Leadership Conference of Women Religious.

lcwr.org/media/news/congregation-doctrine-faith-concludes-mandate-regarding-lcwr

Are you aware the LCWR was placed under close watch by the Vatican’s CDF?
 
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