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Dempsey1919
Guest
The move to establish the Anglican stance on doctrine is great. At least, we’ll all know where we stand, and it will allow for more accurate ecumenism between the Churches.
- Status
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bkovacs
Guest
Were did you read this?.
W
waterbrook
Guest
This Anglican hasn’t moved to Rome because she doesn’t feel she could honestly say that she accepts all that the Catholic church teaches to be true, which she would be required to say: She probably shares views common amongst Roman catholics but the necessary statement probably requires her to be more catholic than most catholics.
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brigid12
Guest
Did that and it was the best move I ever made!
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RC_Matt
Guest
If you haven’t done so already, you might want to air some of those issues here or, better, speak with a Priest. Sometimes people (including many Catholics) think the Church teaches things that it really doesn’t. For example, when the Church “approves” a Marian apparition, it’s not saying it’s real or that you have to believe it; it’s only saying that whatever is supposed to have transpired did not contradict Church teachings. Additionally, some teachings are not what would be considered “core” dogma and many Catholics may disagree with them. For example, the Church teaches that animals don’t go to heaven; but, if you believe our dogs and cats DO go to heaven (and I hope they do), that sort of thing does not rise the level of a core teaching and is not an issue (and you have lots of company). Maybe that’s a bad example, but it’s the first one that came to mind. In any case, if you speak with a Priest, you may find that some of your issues aren’t issues after all.
T
TriuneUnity
Guest
No where…someone else said the Anglicans were releasing a statement on homosexuality that all members of the communion with have to sign…or something to that effect.
A
AngloCatholic1
Guest
“Why not simply become a Roman Catholic?”
I have to admit that this is a question I have been asking myself alot lately. The short answer is that I’m only one SMALL step away right now… but it’s been a long, long road to this point. My father was an atheist and my mother was a luke-warm Unitarian. Both came from Baptist families, but neither were ever baptized. The first person to ever show me a Bible was my Grade 2 public school teacher (yes we actually had Bible Lessons in governmnet schools in Canada waaaayyyy back then!). So the seed of the Gospel was first planted in my heart at that young age (7 years old). But the School Board (in its infinite wisdom) cancelled Bible Study the next year (1969)… and so that seed had to wait MANY YEARS before it got watered.
High school brought me into loose contact with a “Christian Fellowship” group. I then began to study the Bible on my own and considered myself a Christian (but was still not baptized). When I met my wife to be, she introduced me to Anglicanism. Later, after we were married in her church, I told her I felt the need to be baptized. She told me to choose ANY church I felt drawn to. I went to the library and read about a dozen different denominations… ALL PROTESTANT. We went to services in various local churches and met many fine people. I then chose the Anglican church because I was impressed with their history and with their liturgy. When I was baptized the priest assured me he was NOT baptising me simply as an “Anglican”, but as a Christian.
Since that day my wife and I slowly became more and more disillusioned with the church, as it adopted “progressive” liberal reforms. One year after getting a female “priest”, we had a visit from a retired Bishop who told us we had to be accepting of homosexual “marriages”. That was the straw that broke the camel’s back. It was NO LONGER the church I read about and fell in love with.
We walked away and spent a few years looking for the right denomination to replace what we once had. We tried EVERYTHING… everything except Roman Catholic that is! We eventually moved to another city (60 miles away) just so we could join a Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC) church. We were slowly introduced to Catholic beliefs and customs that we had never seen before (such as belief in the Real Presence in the eucharist and praying the Rosary). We love the church and the people, but the congregation is very small, and there is absolutely NO activities for our two children.
Every Sunday morning (and various times through the week) we wake up to the sound of church bells ringing… from the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH just 200 yards from our front door! For some reason this had no effect on us until, one morning, my wife casually suggested we look into Roman Catholicism. I was against it at first, but then made the effort to investigate their teachings on many important issues. Morally the RC’s are IDENTICAL to everything we stand for, but I had to know about doctrinal issues. Then I started listening to Catholic Radio (WTN) every morning on my way to work. It is broadcast from the U.S. (we live less than an hour from the border) because Canadian law does not allow it here. I have been VERY impressed with the apologetics I’ve heard. The speakers are EXCELLENT. I have been listening for several months now. When I get the chance, I discuss some of the things I’ve heard with my wife… and she seems very happy with the teachings.
I realize NOW that I have harboured a misplaced bias against the Catholic church all of my life! I grew up in a WASP neighbourhood (picture Leave it to Beaver) where Catholics were seldom seen and usually mocked. I’ve meditated on my childhood memories and NOW realize that the KINDEST people I ever met, and the kids who came from the HAPPIEST and most STABLE FAMILIES were all Roman Catholic! God had just shown me a blind spot in my spiritual life.
This Sunday (the 10th of August) we plan on attending the service at the local RC church for the first time.
I have to admit that this is a question I have been asking myself alot lately. The short answer is that I’m only one SMALL step away right now… but it’s been a long, long road to this point. My father was an atheist and my mother was a luke-warm Unitarian. Both came from Baptist families, but neither were ever baptized. The first person to ever show me a Bible was my Grade 2 public school teacher (yes we actually had Bible Lessons in governmnet schools in Canada waaaayyyy back then!). So the seed of the Gospel was first planted in my heart at that young age (7 years old). But the School Board (in its infinite wisdom) cancelled Bible Study the next year (1969)… and so that seed had to wait MANY YEARS before it got watered.
High school brought me into loose contact with a “Christian Fellowship” group. I then began to study the Bible on my own and considered myself a Christian (but was still not baptized). When I met my wife to be, she introduced me to Anglicanism. Later, after we were married in her church, I told her I felt the need to be baptized. She told me to choose ANY church I felt drawn to. I went to the library and read about a dozen different denominations… ALL PROTESTANT. We went to services in various local churches and met many fine people. I then chose the Anglican church because I was impressed with their history and with their liturgy. When I was baptized the priest assured me he was NOT baptising me simply as an “Anglican”, but as a Christian.
Since that day my wife and I slowly became more and more disillusioned with the church, as it adopted “progressive” liberal reforms. One year after getting a female “priest”, we had a visit from a retired Bishop who told us we had to be accepting of homosexual “marriages”. That was the straw that broke the camel’s back. It was NO LONGER the church I read about and fell in love with.
We walked away and spent a few years looking for the right denomination to replace what we once had. We tried EVERYTHING… everything except Roman Catholic that is! We eventually moved to another city (60 miles away) just so we could join a Traditional Anglican Communion (TAC) church. We were slowly introduced to Catholic beliefs and customs that we had never seen before (such as belief in the Real Presence in the eucharist and praying the Rosary). We love the church and the people, but the congregation is very small, and there is absolutely NO activities for our two children.
Every Sunday morning (and various times through the week) we wake up to the sound of church bells ringing… from the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH just 200 yards from our front door! For some reason this had no effect on us until, one morning, my wife casually suggested we look into Roman Catholicism. I was against it at first, but then made the effort to investigate their teachings on many important issues. Morally the RC’s are IDENTICAL to everything we stand for, but I had to know about doctrinal issues. Then I started listening to Catholic Radio (WTN) every morning on my way to work. It is broadcast from the U.S. (we live less than an hour from the border) because Canadian law does not allow it here. I have been VERY impressed with the apologetics I’ve heard. The speakers are EXCELLENT. I have been listening for several months now. When I get the chance, I discuss some of the things I’ve heard with my wife… and she seems very happy with the teachings.
I realize NOW that I have harboured a misplaced bias against the Catholic church all of my life! I grew up in a WASP neighbourhood (picture Leave it to Beaver) where Catholics were seldom seen and usually mocked. I’ve meditated on my childhood memories and NOW realize that the KINDEST people I ever met, and the kids who came from the HAPPIEST and most STABLE FAMILIES were all Roman Catholic! God had just shown me a blind spot in my spiritual life.
This Sunday (the 10th of August) we plan on attending the service at the local RC church for the first time.
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GKC
Guest
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emeraldcoast
Guest
I hope that the following link works iian.ibeam.com/events/pmny001/template/eFrame.jsp?eventid=27387&tokenPassed=no&userid=2008-08-07-23.12.43.256654&sessionstart=2008-08-07-23.44.35.387630
If not, go to episcopalchurch.org/ then look in the Highlights section and click on Presiding Bishop’s Webcast.
Peace!
D
Dempsey1919
Guest
AngloCatholic,
I enjoyed reading your story and I hope that you eventually find your home within the Catholic Church. It sounds as if you’ve been Catholic in belief for years, without actually knowing it.
It saddens me to see how things have developed within the Anglican Communion because I felt there was a strong possibility for reunion in the future; however, recent developments such as the ordination of women and the acceptance of homosexuality has made this impossible.
If you have any questions about Catholic doctrine, please feel free to ask me any questions and I will do my best to answer them for you. I will pray for you and your family.
W
waterbrook
Guest
Thank you for your post Matt.
One example that I’ve been thinkinging about this week is the teaching found amongst the early Fathers and in Lumen Gentium that suggest that salvation can be obtained only through the Catholic church or through baptism of desire or blood (martyrdom).
I can see plenty of evidence of corporation into Christ in members of other Christian traditions, and I don’t think they would all consider themselves ignorant of catholic teaching (and therefore would be considered guilty of mortal sin). There is plenty of evidence of the holy Spirit at work outside the catholic church.
May be I’ve not understood correctly - its just this weeks thinking point.
One example that I’ve been thinkinging about this week is the teaching found amongst the early Fathers and in Lumen Gentium that suggest that salvation can be obtained only through the Catholic church or through baptism of desire or blood (martyrdom).
I can see plenty of evidence of corporation into Christ in members of other Christian traditions, and I don’t think they would all consider themselves ignorant of catholic teaching (and therefore would be considered guilty of mortal sin). There is plenty of evidence of the holy Spirit at work outside the catholic church.
May be I’ve not understood correctly - its just this weeks thinking point.
W
waterbrook
Guest
Anglo Catholic 1,
I hope you enjoy the Mass, I’m sure you’ll feel very at home.
I hope you enjoy the Mass, I’m sure you’ll feel very at home.
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RC_Matt
Guest
The Catholic doctrine on salvation is really very all-inclusive. Virtually all of Christ’s teachings come from “love your neighbor as yourself” and as long as you do your best to live that way, you’re ok. Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, pagans, etc., who live their lives in that manner, are implicitly members of the Body of Christ and are therefore “saved.” Of course it’s easier to live that way if you’re Catholic and go to Mass and pay attention (at least for me), but the Church in no way teaches that non-Catholics or non-Christians are going to spend eternity gnashing their teeth in hell with the devil and his pals. That would make no sense at all and in itself would be incongruent with what Jesus taught.Thank you for your post Matt.
One example that I’ve been thinkinging about this week is the teaching found amongst the early Fathers and in Lumen Gentium that suggest that salvation can be obtained only through the Catholic church or through baptism of desire or blood (martyrdom).
I can see plenty of evidence of corporation into Christ in members of other Christian traditions, and I don’t think they would all consider themselves ignorant of catholic teaching (and therefore would be considered guilty of mortal sin). There is plenty of evidence of the holy Spirit at work outside the catholic church.
May be I’ve not understood correctly - its just this weeks thinking point.
The bit about “no salvation outside of the Catholic Church” is often misunderstood and often misused (by ignorant Catholics and Protestants alike). It originated from St. Cyprius, as I recall, around 100AD; when the Catholic (universal) Church was the ONLY Christian tradition. What it means is that if you don’t live according the teachings of Jesus, i.e., treat your follow human being fairly and decently, you’re gonna have some serious issues down the road. It does NOT mean that non-Catholics are destined for the eternal lake of fine; it means that “good” people are saved and that unrepentant “bad” people fall into the “other” category. Other than some of those goofy sects that believe in exclusive salvation, I don’t think many people would disagree with that position.
A Priest or RCIA instructor can explain it much better than I, but that’s the gist of it anyway.
T
tqualey
Guest
Dear Contarini,
Thank you for your response.
The issue of being, “…in between…”, is a challenging concept. The mental picture I have is having each foot astride a rail on a railroad track. As long as the tracks are going straight and there is only one set, then hopping back and forth is more of a skill then a problem. The issue, however, is when there is a divergence. Of late, there have been many such divergences and this has caused multiple problems for all of the faithful Anglicans. And, dare I say, for all Christians.
There were some issues that did concern me.
) The act of knowing something is invalid and still staying with it, must be a terrible burden - the act of assuming that all Catholic services are focused on a church full of anti-social hermits is making a giant assumption. What kind of a sample size are we working with here?
“If your eye be a cause of scandal…”
“You strain out the gnat, yet swallow the camel…”
“Anyone who looks at a woman with lust…”
“Pray for those who persecute you…”
“God created them male and female…”
These are pretty conservative statements. Actually, inflexible may be a better description. Say what we will - we were all created by God a certain way. Christ wants us to be happy - and told us what we must do if we are going to live in His Will with our human natures. There is no ‘squishiness’ here.
That’s the way I see it.
Have a Blessed Day.
Thank you for your response.
The issue of being, “…in between…”, is a challenging concept. The mental picture I have is having each foot astride a rail on a railroad track. As long as the tracks are going straight and there is only one set, then hopping back and forth is more of a skill then a problem. The issue, however, is when there is a divergence. Of late, there have been many such divergences and this has caused multiple problems for all of the faithful Anglicans. And, dare I say, for all Christians.
There were some issues that did concern me.
Basically, there appears to be a significant element of emotionalism here. Wanting to ‘feel good’ as opposed to wanting to do right. Contrasting the invalidity of sacraments with a desire for being in an agreeably gregarious group may be placing the emphasis on the wrong element (or track to keep with the rail road analogy…
) The act of knowing something is invalid and still staying with it, must be a terrible burden - the act of assuming that all Catholic services are focused on a church full of anti-social hermits is making a giant assumption. What kind of a sample size are we working with here?Matt 16:18 is actually Christ’s claim on how He would found His Chruch. At one time Henry VIII was very much on the side of the Pope - and was awarded the Defender of the Faith (DF) designation (which the Queen still uses). Henry’s complaint about about papal authority ( ‘papal claim’) seems firmly attached to him not getting the divorce he so dearly wanted. No great philosophical or theological issue here - Henry was smitten and would have his way no matter what.
In the scheme of things, I guess this comes from our Founder. I guess Anyone Who would say the following would not be considered as a liberal by many folks today. For example:
“If your eye be a cause of scandal…”
“You strain out the gnat, yet swallow the camel…”
“Anyone who looks at a woman with lust…”
“Pray for those who persecute you…”
“God created them male and female…”
These are pretty conservative statements. Actually, inflexible may be a better description. Say what we will - we were all created by God a certain way. Christ wants us to be happy - and told us what we must do if we are going to live in His Will with our human natures. There is no ‘squishiness’ here.
While I am not sure how moral or philosophical ‘squishiness’ is an asset. At the very least, it is of no help when confronted with a moral dilemma and you must make a choice. Saying that some enlightened and well intentioned souls will ‘squish’ left, while others of a similar but different disposition will ‘squish’ right, does not give the clear call that the ‘sheep’ expect from the ‘Shepherd’. How can we hear His Voice and hedge our choice? In Matthew 25 we have several parables about people making wise and foolish choices: the 10 virgins who brough lamps, but only 5 also brough oil, the servants who invested or burried the talents their Master had given to them and of course the Last Judgment, when those who gave to the poor, and cared for God’s suffering children were rewarded; and those who didn’t weren’t. There is no mention of rewarding those who ‘squished’ away from making the hard decision but correct.
Personally, I think this is the only viable alternative considering how you have so constructed this challenge. While, in my opinion, there is no future in ‘squishing’ - the real problem is that it is not static. We ‘squish’ at our peril on a very slipper slope - and those who dance to different song are never satisified with the previous set of compromises - only new and more punishing compromises will do now. With no one standing for a principle, everything simply falls down.
That’s the way I see it.
Have a Blessed Day.
M
Mandy31
Guest
Hello,
I have five grown children, four sons and our daughter. My husband and I are Cradle Catholics. We have taken them to Mass and catechism every Sunday. My daughter married an Episcopal. I’ve asked her many times why she will not attend Mass with us.
She tells me the Episcopal Mass and Faith is just as good, I know it is not because the Catholic Church is the one true church started by Christ Himself along with his twelve apostles as written in the New
Testament of the Bible.
The Anglican/ Episcopal Church was started by King Henry V111
when he wanted an annulment from Catherine of Aragon to marry the more attractive Anne Boleyn. King Henry made himsel “The Head of The Church of England” ( Information taken from Catholic History through Biography’) written in October 1940.Would anyone have any ideas of what I could do to get her to Come Home?
Mandy31
I have five grown children, four sons and our daughter. My husband and I are Cradle Catholics. We have taken them to Mass and catechism every Sunday. My daughter married an Episcopal. I’ve asked her many times why she will not attend Mass with us.
She tells me the Episcopal Mass and Faith is just as good, I know it is not because the Catholic Church is the one true church started by Christ Himself along with his twelve apostles as written in the New
Testament of the Bible.
The Anglican/ Episcopal Church was started by King Henry V111
when he wanted an annulment from Catherine of Aragon to marry the more attractive Anne Boleyn. King Henry made himsel “The Head of The Church of England” ( Information taken from Catholic History through Biography’) written in October 1940.Would anyone have any ideas of what I could do to get her to Come Home?
Mandy31
S
SIA
Guest
Hmm, I have had the same thought about Roman Catholics becoming Anglican. I can’t understand why anyone would not want to leave Roman Catholicism for Anglicanism. I left Roman Catholicism after being born into it and practicing it devloutly for over three decades and became Anglican. The choice was very clear to me.
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Dempsey1919
Guest
Would you mind sharing your conversion story? I’d be very interested in reading your reasons for converting and leaving your birth faith.
T
tqualey
Guest
Dear waterbrook,
Please share these areas of disagreement with the list. If, for no other reason, it will give us a better understanding of your concerns.
God bless,
Please share these areas of disagreement with the list. If, for no other reason, it will give us a better understanding of your concerns.
God bless,
S
SIA
Guest
Sure. I was born and raised in the Catholic church. My parents were and still are devout Catholics. Most of my relatives are as well. I was once a devout Catholic myself. I attended mass regularly, usually at least twice per week and I went to confession at least once per month. I observed the holy days of obligation and fast and abstinence occurances when necessary. As the years rolled on, I did more to deeped my Catholic faith. I attended Eucharistic Adoration when I could and said the Rosary regularly. I did all of these things but eventually I had to face the fact that I felt spiritually dead inside. I didn’t know Jesus and didn’t feel the Spirit in me not even a hint. I went on this way for a couple more years. I spoke with my parish priest about these things and spoke with others as well to no avail. I was dead inside just going through the motions. I talked with a neighbor of mine one day who introduced my to his priest who was Anglican. They invited me to join them one Wednesday afternoon for a healing Eucharist service which I did. I had never attended an Anglican service before that. It was surprisingly very similar to the mass which I knew so well. But over the next several weeks I attended the Anglican services but something was vasty different; I could feel the Spirit in the dwelling and in the people and eventually in me and my family. I recognized the touch of the Spirit from many years prior and knew it right away! I and my family found the Spirit in the Anglican church. Years have since past and still I and my family are very involved in our church. Dry times come but they go as well. I have a wholesome prayer life and I attend with parishioners who share their relationships with Jesus with everyone. It is truly wonderful and I believe in my heart of hearts that God led me there as well as my family. I read the Scriptures alone and with others in the church. They have new relevance and meaning in my life now. I feel and know God in them. My wife received her Confirmation from our bishop and my son will also be confirmed by him as well. We are home in our Anglican parish. My parents weren’t happy for us in the beginning but have grown to be because they see how it has changed my wife and I and our son. They attend on occasion with us. They love our priest and his homilies. I believe that if it weren’t for my mom and her deep family (Italian) roots in the Catholic church, my dad would join my family at our Anglican parish.
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grandmama16
Guest
I did…37 yrs. ago…long before they did their homosexual thing. I just studied and realized that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery in that their Mass is like our Mass but without the authority of the Holy Father and the Apostolic Succession, therefore their criticism of the catholic view of transubstantiation, which is in the front of their book of common prayer. I loved being Episcopalian, having not being raised in any faith except to be baptized in the Baptist church. I think the appeal of the Anglican or Episcopalian church is the lack of rules but it also told me that it was a lack of authority. The priest who baptized our kids was not pro-life for instance. I just wish the whole Anglican communion would give up and become Catholic. Come on home…the rules are here to help give you God’s graces…to live a life that is better for you. They are maybe not what you want to do …but better for your soul.
My becoming Catholic brought my husband back to the faith too. He had been a fallen away Catholic so I can see God’s hand in bringing him back thru the Episcopal faith. One of the things that caused me to convert were the mormon missionaries who visited us soon after we moved to our home in Utah. I could only give them Catholic Answers. M.A.
My becoming Catholic brought my husband back to the faith too. He had been a fallen away Catholic so I can see God’s hand in bringing him back thru the Episcopal faith. One of the things that caused me to convert were the mormon missionaries who visited us soon after we moved to our home in Utah. I could only give them Catholic Answers.
M.A.- Status