Anglicans: Why don't you come home to Rome?

[Traditional_Ang]

probably for the same reasons that piperspop gave.

Deborah AZ:

I know Triune has been burning up the Posting box since he joined, but I can see that you’ve been around for awhile - So I’m surprised you missed the various “Anglicans to Rome” threads where this was all hashed out, and that you haven’t read many of my Prayer Requests Threads during the past 10 months.

It’s just that, because of the sensitivity of the negotiations, and the level of opposition I found here 3-1/2 years ago, I’m unable to talk about this too much or to give out any details that might be misinterpreted, taken out of context or (worse) distorted by those who feel their reasons for opposing this reunion are more important then the Lord’s commands and prayers - I’m under instruction not to give out any information that hasn’t already been made public or that the Vatican hasn’t authorized Archbishop Hepworth and the other Bishops in the TAC to release to us and to you and to the faithful.

I have to obey that instruction, as I’m sure every other member of the TAC has to do. If you would have experienced what I experienced Jan., 2004 - Mar., 2004 and read the exchanges on the “Anglicans to Rome” threads (as I’m sure members of the Vatican did), you would understand the reasoning for the above.

I hope we have your understanding and your prayers.

Your Brother in Christ, Michael

 

[slyboots]

Anglican brothers and sisters,

Particularly to the poster who goes to the 20 strong parish and gets to see his diocesan bishop more often than he feels he would in a large catholic parish… Our archbishop makes the rounds of our parishes several times yearly. For our 8000 parishioner parish we have two resident priests who live in the rectory next to the church. We have 3 deacons who do occasional move to other parishes and are replaced by others. We often have the newer priests of the parish make their first post our parish for about a year.
Our family priest is Father Dan one of our two resident priests. My husband and I know him and love him. He was priested just a few years ago after a previous career. He presided over our daughter and son in laws marriage. He has baptized our grandchildren and God children. My 7 year old grand daughter and 1 year old grandson adore him as do our kids.
Yes we have a huge parish about the size of the population of the town we live in at the time I moved here as a baby in 1955.
But that doesn’t mean we don’t have interaction with our parish activities and priests, deacons and archbishop.
There is a small Anglican parish in my town as well. Lovely 1928 BCP folks attend there. My MIL and FIL are Anglicans as well. But to get to their particular diocesan parish which is the “right thinking Anglican diocese” they have to drive 20 miles to and then back home. They feel this Anglican Parish in my town which is closer to them and for all intensive purposes is the same as theirs in beliefs, is a “spurious offshoot.”
It appears the traditional Anglicans are choosing to set up their diocese in the same way the protestants set up their various churches. One only goes to the Anglican Church of whichever diocese one belongs.
This is sad to me. At least…at least I wish they had not split into a bunch of different Anglican Diocese with little to no interaction.

 

[AlexiaMusing]

i always like to hear from alexia because she loves the anglican church and makes intelligent arguments. i can understand what it must be like to come here and read what is said about the anglican church or the episcopal church.
please forgive us. you probably get tired of reading the same things we say.
i know when i first joined the RCC i was bragging to my anglican friends and
probably was very annoying to them. i have since learned that i will not win people to the RCC with that type of behavior. people have to find out for themselves i guess. those that are anglicans, are choosing to remain anglicans for one reason or another. i would be curious to find out why you left the RCC for the anglican church. forgive us if we get carried away and sound high and mighty. that probably is not good on our part.

I do find it a bit odd here, but I am certainly not upset. I don’t know the reason for inviting other faiths to participate if the objective is only to tell them they are wrong. I have serious doubts about staying since, as I said, there seems no desire to discuss issues of common interest such as poverty, world health, food, etc issues. I would have thought that our doctrinal differences should not be a bar to us working toward common goals of alleviating hunger and poverty in the world, but that does not seem of interest to anyone here so far as I’ve seen.

 

[slyboots]

Alexia,
This thread is not about fighting hunger, poverty, or world health. it is about what keeps people from becoming Catholic.
There are other threads which discuss these other issues.
Our Church addresses those issues around the world. Perhaps that could give you the impetus to look into joining us.

 

[emeraldcoast]

Alexia,
This thread is not about fighting hunger, poverty, or world health. it is about what keeps people from becoming Catholic.
There are other threads which discuss these other issues.
Our Church addresses those issues around the world. Perhaps that could give you the impetus to look into joining us.

Honestly Slyboots, I do not agree with the CC teaching on working to end HIV/AIDS in very poor areas of the world. I wish that the CC would wake up and smell the coffee. Bishop Dowlings should be lifted up as a true hero instead of as a “rule breaker” by many in the CC.

Bishop Kevin Dowling shows the true compassion of Jesus Christ with his ministry to those suffering with HIV/AIDS. He is protecting life with giving out condoms. Please click on the video link.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/hardtalk/6732051.stm

I am glad that some Catholic clergy are willing to not blindly follow the party line, but show the compassion worthy of the followers of Christ. If more Catholic leaders showed compassion like Bishop Dowling, the Church would have more influence with both its members and those outside the Church.

God Bless!

 

[Cinette]

I do find it a bit odd here, but I am certainly not upset. I don’t know the reason for inviting other faiths to participate if the objective is only to tell them they are wrong. I have serious doubts about staying since, as I said, there seems no desire to discuss issues of common interest such as poverty, world health, food, etc issues. I would have thought that our doctrinal differences should not be a bar to us working toward common goals of alleviating hunger and poverty in the world, but that does not seem of interest to anyone here so far as I’ve seen.

I understand what you are saying but you must understand also that there are many other people who are excited about all kinds of issues and will debate furiously. What you must do is look for other threads regarding other issues.

Insofar as Anglicanism is concerned I would love to see them all unite with us but at the same time I would not like to see some do so and leave the Anglican Church in the hands of some goofy, crazy liberals who will wreak havoc and turn the Anglican Church into a haven for homosexuals and the like. I used the word liberals only in the “laisser faire” sense.

I would also like to apologise for the use of the word homosexuals because there are many who live normal respectable lives without trying to change their subculture into the mainstream of normality - that was a mouthful!

 

[Madaglan]

Honestly Slyboots, I do not agree with the CC teaching on working to end HIV/AIDS in very poor areas of the world. I wish that the CC would wake up and smell the coffee. Bishop Dowlings should be lifted up as a true hero instead of as a “rule breaker” by many in the CC.

Bishop Kevin Dowling shows the true compassion of Jesus Christ with his ministry to those suffering with HIV/AIDS. He is protecting life with giving out condoms. Please click on the video link.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/hardtalk/6732051.stm

I am glad that some Catholic clergy are willing to not blindly follow the party line, but show the compassion worthy of the followers of Christ. If more Catholic leaders showed compassion like Bishop Dowling, the Church would have more influence with both its members and those outside the Church.

God Bless!

Excellent interview. Thanks!

 

[Cinette]

Excellent interview. Thanks!

I saw that interview when it came out about a year ago.

I have met Bishop Kevin Dowling when he came to our Parish to speak when a book on his cousin Archbishop Denis Hurley was being promoted. These two men were and are outstandingly courageous in speaking out and working to combat injustice. Hurley played a major part in Vatican II - I met him several times as a child as he would often visit our Convent school.

You can see the squalor and dire poverty in the video. I do believe that there are circumstances where the use of condoms is the lesser evil.

I have to say that our society is contaminated by the movies where sex is there on display all the time. Sex is BIG, it sells. Boy meets girl and in the next scene its pillow talk! Just last night there was one of those scenes there a couple of colleagues get the itch and go into an empty office to furiously engaged in tearing off each others clothes etc. etc. This was viewed at 8pm in the evening when many children are still up and awake! What about fashion - women these days like to display their private parts as if they were for sale. Black women here dress and behave like the women in the movies just like a lot of other women.

Having said that, consider that condoms tend to tear so using a condom might delay HIV a little. In Uganda they practiced celibacy and the results were really significant…

Bishop Dowling is a darling - a good man who does a lot for the poor. Oh talking of the poor there was an article in the paper yesterday about a poor young woman who had given up her job as a domestic to look after her 14 months old baby who was very ill. She gave birth to another child 2 weeks before the 14 month old died and to avoid further misery she killed the baby because she was too poor to support it. Same old story, single Mother…

We need your prayers in South Africa. A lot of poverty and a government of people who are just out to enrich themselves. Gone are the promises…

  :signofcross: 

                     :gopray:

 

[slyboots]

Ok I think that several of you missed my point.
I never said anything about not helping AIDS victims. I have several friends die from that scourge. It is heartbreaking to watch someone dying from it no matter how they acquired the illness.
I said that this thread pertains to what is keeping you from becoming Catholic. There are other threads that discuss the issues of poverty, world health, etc.
That being said…condoms break…abstainence doesn’t. So if AIDS is a fear then condoms are not the answer.
But that shouldn’t really keep anyone from becoming Catholic.
The Catholic Church is well known around the world for its assistance of the poor, the innocent and sick.
BTW I will not apologize for the use of the word homosexual anymore than I wouldn’t apologize for using the word heterosexual. It is a valid description and my friends who are “gay” find it nondiscriminatory.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, emeraldcoast,

Honestly Slyboots, I do not agree with the CC teaching on working to end HIV/AIDS in very poor areas of the world. I wish that the CC would wake up and smell the coffee.

Two items: 1- this really was not the topic, and 2- so, after re-reading the Subject heading, are you saying that the reason some Anglicans do not come home to rome is the Chruch’s teaching on working to end HIV/AIDS?

Tom

 

[emeraldcoast]

Hi, emeraldcoast,

Two items: 1- this really was not the topic, and 2- so, after re-reading the Subject heading, are you saying that the reason some Anglicans do not come home to rome is the Chruch’s teaching on working to end HIV/AIDS?

Tom

Hi Tom,

The CC teaching on birth control is one reason why I don’t join the CC and that is nested with HIV/AIDS education policy. I think ignoring the facts that condoms can deter the spread of HIV/AIDS and prevent unwanted pregnancies for families who can’t support more children is misguided.

God Bless!

 

[Cinette]

Hi Tom,

The CC teaching on birth control is one reason why I don’t join the CC and that is nested with HIV/AIDS education policy. I think ignoring the facts that condoms can deter the spread of HIV/AIDS and prevent unwanted pregnancies for families who can’t support more children is misguided.

God Bless!

Ever heard of Natural Family Planning? It works!

 

[slyboots]

Hi Tom,

The CC teaching on birth control is one reason why I don’t join the CC and that is nested with HIV/AIDS education policy. I think ignoring the facts that condoms can deter the spread of HIV/AIDS and prevent unwanted pregnancies for families who can’t support more children is misguided.

God Bless!

I see. Because we don’t accept artificial birth control you do not feel you can be a Catholic.
By the wayI am a state social worker. Even our AIDS related social workers do not put their faith in condoms because they have many clients who relied upon them.

 

[Dempsey1919]

This thread is not about Catholic teaching regarding artificial birth control.

You are free to agree or disagree with this teaching, but please stay on topic. If you want to discuss the Catholic stance on birth control, please start another thread.

I say this only because I don’t want this thread to be closed.

 

[piperspop]

Dempsey1919,

Maybe I can help get this back on track.

Reasons why we don’t want to just convert?

The Pope as infallible (a VERY recent development)

The Virgin Mary as Co-Redemptrix (perhaps a fringe element, but the whole issue of where Mary stands in the Catholic Church hierarchy - over Jesus is seems) is disturbing to us.

The attitude that all issues in the Reformation were protestant issues, and that little things like selling indulgences, earning your way into heaven through good works, the Inquisition, the bad popes, the temporal power of the papacy, had nothing to do with the start of the Reformation, or the refusal of England to submit to either the temporal or spiritual leadership of the pope.

There, that should be enough to get the ball rolling.

George

 

[Cinette]

Dempsey1919,

Maybe I can help get this back on track.

Reasons why we don’t want to just convert?

The Pope as infallible (a VERY recent development)

The Virgin Mary as Co-Redemptrix (perhaps a fringe element, but the whole issue of where Mary stands in the Catholic Church hierarchy - over Jesus is seems) is disturbing to us.

The attitude that all issues in the Reformation were protestant issues, and that little things like selling indulgences, earning your way into heaven through good works, the Inquisition, the bad popes, the temporal power of the papacy, had nothing to do with the start of the Reformation, or the refusal of England to submit to either the temporal or spiritual leadership of the pope.

There, that should be enough to get the ball rolling.

George

There are a number of myths in your statement - sounds like the things that one would hear from Fundamentalists - Certainly not from an Anglican.

It might be good to de-myth-ify your ideas of the church. Patrick Madrid has written some excellent little books: Pope Fiction, Where is that in the Bible? and Answer me That!. They contain lots of scripture references and are very helpful.

 

[emeraldcoast]

This thread is not about Catholic teaching regarding artificial birth control.

You are free to agree or disagree with this teaching, but please stay on topic. If you want to discuss the Catholic stance on birth control, please start another thread.

I say this only because I don’t want this thread to be closed.

The title of the post is “Anglicans: Why don’t you come home to Rome?”

Are you trying to dictate to me what my reasons for not “coming home to Rome” should be?? Sorry, not going to work with this Anglican…

God Bless!

 

[piperspop]

No fundamentalist here.
Born and raised RCC.

These are not myths, the Pope was not declared infallible until 1870, and then by a council that didnot include bishops from the original undivided church (how easy to forget those pesky orthodox)

Mary is accepted in the RCC as co-redemptrix, mediator and advocate. To Anglicans, Christ is “MY ONLY MEDIATOR AND ADVOCATE”
voxpopuli.org/booktext.php

 

[emeraldcoast]

Ever heard of Natural Family Planning? It works!

Hi Cinette,

If you are referring to NFP - “Navy Familiy Planning” I am very aware of how that works, after ten overseas deployments for my husband in our 18 year marriage. Our children are spaced seven years apart, based on when my husband was ashore (and at home), since cohabitation is key to successful family planning. We do love our shore duty babies!

As far as Natural Family Planning, I am not sure how it would prevent the spread of HIV/AIDS. Please explain how NFP can prevent/decrease the spread of HIV/AIDS between a husband and wife, if one is infected.

God Bless!

 

[Dempsey1919]

The title of the post is “Anglicans: Why don’t you come home to Rome?”

Are you trying to dictate to me what my reasons for not “coming home to Rome” should be?? Sorry, not going to work with this Anglican…

I know the title of this thread because I started this thread.

I am not dicating anything to you. I don’t want this thread to be locked because the conversation strayed off topic. That was my only reason for asking you not to discuss whether the Catholic view on artificial contraception is right or wrong. A topic of that size needs its own thread.

I know many Anglicans will struggle with the Catholic beliefs regarding artificial contraception and I know that many will not convert because of this. This specific teaching will be the reason many do not come home to Rome.