Anglo-Catholicism

[BernadetteM]

The ones you’re referring to are Anglican Use parishes. There are only 6 in the United States. There are only 6 because a whole congregation needs to convert to the Catholic faith (including the pastor) in order to be considered “Anglican Use”.

There are at least two new AU parishes or really missions/societies, maybe three at this time. It has been difficult for AU parishes in many dioceses to get started. If the Bishop doesn’t allow one then of course they won’t be establised. Just as the TLM/EF has had problems with some Bishops the AU parishes have had a more difficult time.

I think the Holy Spirit is working within the Pastoral Provision and that in the future there will be more AU parishes coming. Most Catholics are not aware of the Pastoral Provision or Anglican Use parishes.

The priests and their communities must sacrafice much to be in union with the Church. Hopefully more and more conservative Bishops will open their hearts and be Shepards to these souls who want nothing more than to be Catholic in the full sense.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[frtrue]

Well to answer your questions. Yes. John Henry Newman did convert to Rome. But he is still considered a notable man and Saint by Anglo-Catholics. Yes, he did join Rome. But I don’t see this a problem. Anglo-Catholics look at it as just joining another branch of Catholicism. He was free to choose as he thought and he paved the way for many Anglo-Catholics to come.

Why do I not become a Catholic? As I have said before. I believe that I am already a Catholic, within the Anglican tradition. I don’t see the need to join Roman Catholicism even though I respect it greatly as the Mother Church. I know this sounds kind of contradictory. It is a bit confusing to explain really. Anglo-Cathoics are usually always confronted with this question by Roman Catholics. Basically, we don’t see the need to join Rome because we are already Catholics.

Lastly, it is sad about the state of the Anglican Church nowadays. Homosexuality, abortion, all these issues have been trodden over because of the liberal nature and majority of low and especially broad church Anglicans. I would love to see the Anglican Church as a whole turn into an Anglo-Catholic body and for all Anglicans to beg for reconciliation and re-acceptance by the Holy See! But, this probably will never happen, at least not any time soon. Mabye through the intercession of Mary Mother of the church it will. But, sigh I just hope and pray about this.

 

[frtrue]

I am an ordained Anglican priest. Many in this forum have commented on the Anglican Church as condoning homosexuality in same sex marriages and women’s ordaination. I cant’ speak for the Church of England, but I do know the Traditional Anglican Communion never has and does not now condone same sex marriage, ordination of homosexuals and women.
The Episcopal Church USA does promote all of the above. Members of many of the TAC parishes are former Episcopalians who would not submit to the heresy of the present day Episcopal church, and, in my parish, we have five former Roman Catholic families who worship with us because our Eucharist is ‘what we remember, before all the changes.’

 

[BernadetteM]

I am an ordained Anglican priest. Many in this forum have commented on the Anglican Church as condoning homosexuality in same sex marriages and women’s ordaination. I cant’ speak for the Church of England, but I do know the Traditional Anglican Communion never has and does not now condone same sex marriage, ordination of homosexuals and women.
The Episcopal Church USA does promote all of the above. Members of many of the TAC parishes are former Episcopalians who would not submit to the heresy of the present day Episcopal church, and, in my parish, we have five former Roman Catholic families who worship with us because our Eucharist is ‘what we remember, before all the changes.’

Not to be uncharitable, but as a former Anglo Catholic I believe that I understand the mindset of many Anglo Catholics. Although they worship in the same manner, not all Anglo Catholics feel the same about being Catholic. Also the Episcopal church’s title is protestant and my parents thought they were protestant and everyone from the low church I attended thought the same.

Your quote about the five former Roman Catholic families who worship with us because our Eurcharist is “what we remember, before all the changes.” is what I am talking about. The way the Mass/Liturgy is celebrated, with incense, kneeling, crossing yourself etc. does not a Catholic make. Yes it is lovely and beautiful and the building might be beautiful as in my case, but the substance is not there. Truth comes before all these traditiions. As an Anglo Catholic I used to say I was Catholic to people who asked, but deep within me I always knew that it was not true. I had the beliefs, but did not belong to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

When our parish left the Episcopal church in 1978 we split three ways, some wanted to stay in the building as it was not owned by the diocese, they just wanted everything the same, they are now I believe part of TAC (which has low church, high church and Anglo Catholics within it), some went Western Orthodox and the rest went to the Catholic Church. My priest became Catholic.

I believe also that there were and maybe some priests being ordained today within the Episcopal church who were ordained by an Old Catholic Bishop, which would mean they could have a valid, but illicit consecration of the Eucharist.

But the key to all this is that some people put traditions, wonderful liturgies, music etc. above what I believe is the truth of the Catholic Church. If your not in communion with the Holy Father, although you believe all things Catholic, you are not part of the Catholic Church. I know this sounds harsh, but as I said I knew when I claimed to be Catholic that the people who asked thought I meant the Catholic Church with the fullness of truth.

It is difficult for Anglicans to become Catholic as many don’t want the authority. It is also in some cases a great sacrifice for many to give up the beauty of the liturgy. But our Lord does honor those who do submit. I go to a lovely traditional Catholic parish with hymns like in the 1940 hymnal. Some are lucky enough to be close to an Anglican Use parish. If more Anglicans from continuing churches would approach Rome and ask to be under the Pastoral Provision and if they can find a Bishop who is open then they can truely be Catholic in the full sense of the word. The problem with TAC coming into the Catholic Church as a group, is that many don’t want to be under the Pope. I have read many posts from TAC members that were very negative about this. That is because many are not Anglo Catholics and even some of them oppose the movement. There are also problems with some of the clergy’s past, i.e. former Catholic priest, or divorced and remarried.

I will always miss the most beautiful Mass, our priest celebrated it in such a beautiful manner, I will miss many things of my former parish and so do my children, but it is difficult to put into words the peace I have being part of the Catholic Church. We must all make our own choices as to where the Lord is leading us.

I pray for all Anglicans to find the place they are content with, but as I had to really be honest about whether I was a true Catholic or just practiced Catholic beliefs I knew that I needed to become part of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. I have found much freedom and a sense of community I never knew as an Anglo Catholic. This sense of community has nothing to do with the social aspects of church. It comes from within. I pray for the best for you and your congregation.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[Judefrancis]

Pope Benedict XVI has written that the liturgy is everything, and that evereything rises or falls with the liturgy. Well, stop and think about that for a moment. Look at the awful liturgy in the Novus Ordo Catholic Church? It is awful, it is Protestant, it is a sacrilege, it is an abomination. Go to any traditional Catholic webiste and you will read the same summing up of what became of the Catholic Church after Vatican II. True, there is the reform of thr reform happening today, but essentially the horsrs have already left the atble. The present Catholic Church is in schism with itself–traditional Catholics do NOT think that Novus Ordo Catholics are the real deal. And if what Benedict XVI says is true, that the Church rises or falls with the liturgy, then the Catholic Church has fallen.

Why would I choose to go to a NO Catholic parish where they have Protestant hymns, where there is no incense, where the church looks like a Protestant church, where the choir is by the front of the altar, where tons of tackily dressed lay people crowd the altar, where women distribute communion and NOT the priest? I say, this is schism. I say, this is NOT really the Catholic Church, this is the Protestant Catholic Church.

Thank God for the Anglo Catholic tradition.

If the liturgy is everything, and if the Church rises or falls with the liturgy, then the Novus Ordo Catholic Church has indeed fallen.

Many Catholics are now converting to Eastern Orthodoxy because of Vatican II and the Novus Ordo Mass. We want our ancient Mass back. Vatican II was wrong. Pope John XXIII regretted calling Vatican II.

 

[mercygate]

I am an ordained Anglican priest. Many in this forum have commented on the Anglican Church as condoning homosexuality in same sex marriages and women’s ordaination. I cant’ speak for the Church of England, but I do know the Traditional Anglican Communion never has and does not now condone same sex marriage, ordination of homosexuals and women.
The Episcopal Church USA does promote all of the above. Members of many of the TAC parishes are former Episcopalians who would not submit to the heresy of the present day Episcopal church, and, in my parish, we have five former Roman Catholic families who worship with us because our Eucharist is ‘what we remember, before all the changes.’

As a former Anglo-Catholic and Episcopal seminary graduate (MDiv, GTS), whose form of life in the Episcopal Church was “more” Catholick than that of most ordinary Catholics today, I understand what you are saying. And, yes, many in our parish were former Catholics. It was notable, however, that these liturgically nostaligic and faithful Sunday/holy day worshipers were never seen in the confessional, and actually had a resentful attitude towards confession. A telling point to my thinking. Many of them had far more than liturgical gripes against Rome, and many of those gripes were of a personal nature: some priest who offended them, a cranky nun, a parent to "shoved the Catholic Church down my throat, an untidy divorce & remarriage (there was a lot of that among fallen away Catholics) . . .

Those of us who leave all of the fragrant beauty of Anglicanism at its post-Oxford Movement best, look at Catholic liturgy in the average parish today and realize that if you want the real deal, you just have to stand it – Michael Joncas and all. If Jesus can show up, so can we. And the liturgy IS getting better.