angry words

[phantom]

U r a good reader. It was my wife who said this to me in front of our children. And I was stunned. After we were alone, I told her I wanted to talk to her and explained to her how wrong I thought it was for her to say that to me and how often I had fought the urge to say something like that to her when she had done some of her many dirty little tricks on me, but I never did say anything like that to her because I didn’t want her to feel threatened. She just got angry and walked away. The next morning I told her I was going to inform the counselor that we had gone to once what she had said to me so that if anything did happen to me they would now who to talk to. She angrily responded: “if you try to take the kids away from me, I will…”(she didn’t finish). I have never threatened to divorce or leave her and I hope to keep the family together. I don’t think an apology has ever entered her mind. We have recently relocated from my families’ home town to near her families’ home town…about 300 miles apart and I really don’t have anyone to back me up. She has family who are eager to assist her and she has a way of pursuading them, plus they don’t like to communicate with me. If she tried to take me on herself and I fought back, I would win the fight and probably get arrested too…that won’t happen. I can’t believe a rational woman would say something like that to her husband…do you suppose she actually thinks she could beat me up? I did call the counselor and she told me it was not a threat, it was her way of expressing the level of her anger. I guess I can’t argue with that. I still don’t like that she said that to me or in front of the kids. I will try to talk to our priest, but it is hard to talk to him and then go to church on sunday with my wife and children and sit near the front of the Church in the pew just in front of her mother and brothers.

Interestingly the OP went to pains not to id the sex. Everyone here has assumed it is the husband. Also the statement has been changed from I ought to to I am going to.
Perhaps the fact that so many have said they would leave shows why the divorce rate it so high.

 

[mercygate]

U r a good reader. It was my wife who said this to me in front of our children. And I was stunned.

I understand this is more common than is generally recognized.

After we were alone, I told her I wanted to talk to her and explained to her how wrong I thought it was for her to say that to me and how often I had fought the urge to say something like that to her when she had done some of her many dirty little tricks on me, but I never did say anything like that to her because I didn’t want her to feel threatened.

Excellent. Straightforward. No heat.

She just got angry and walked away.

Translation: “You’re right.”

The next morning I told her I was going to inform the counselor that we had gone to once what she had said to me so that if anything did happen to me they would now who to talk to.

Excellent.

She angrily responded: “if you try to take the kids away from me, I will…”(she didn’t finish).

Sounds like she’s doing a reality check.

I have never threatened to divorce or leave her and I hope to keep the family together.

Good. Besides, in any divorce, the deck is stacked in favor of the woman. The deck is stacked in favor of the one who does NOT want the divorce. Play this astutely.

I don’t think an apology has ever entered her mind.

Nor is it likely that she will ever apologize. Don’t hold your breath. Turning the behavior around is what counts. A perfect act of contrition is another thing.We have recently relocated from my families’ home town to near her families’ home town…about 300 miles apart and I really don’t have anyone to back me up.Good. You and she need to work this out without bystanders getting into the mix.

She has family who are eager to assist her and she has a way of pursuading them, plus they don’t like to communicate with me.

Talk to the counselor about how to limit your wife’s family’s engagement in your relationship.

If she tried to take me on herself and I fought back, I would win the fight and probably get arrested too…that won’t happen.

I’m glad it won’t happen, but it’s a little troubling that you are even THINKING this.

I can’t believe a rational woman would say something like that to her husband…do you suppose she actually thinks she could beat me up? I did call the counselor and she told me it was not a threat, it was her way of expressing the level of her anger. I guess I can’t argue with that.

Agreed. But it WAS a threat and it is absolutely out of bounds.

I still don’t like that she said that to me or in front of the kids. I will try to talk to our priest, but it is hard to talk to him and then go to church on sunday with my wife and children and sit near the front of the Church in the pew just in front of her mother and brothers.

Has your wife ever really left her parents and cleft to you? “Leave and cleave” – there’s a reason that’s in the Bible!

 

[whatevergirl]

Interestingly the OP went to pains not to id the sex. Everyone here has assumed it is the husband. Also the statement has been changed from I ought to to I am going to.
Perhaps the fact that so many have said they would leave shows why the divorce rate it so high.

Either spouse saying something like this is horrible…If you are not familiar with how abuse begins, this is how…with words first. I would never suggest for someone to stick around and accept such horrible behavior from a spouse. Especially when children are involved. If you would choose to suggest such a thing, that a spouse should tolerate physical threats from another, that is your option.

 

[whatevergirl]

U r a good reader. It was my wife who said this to me in front of our children. And I was stunned. After we were alone, I told her I wanted to talk to her and explained to her how wrong I thought it was for her to say that to me and how often I had fought the urge to say something like that to her when she had done some of her many dirty little tricks on me, but I never did say anything like that to her because I didn’t want her to feel threatened. She just got angry and walked away. The next morning I told her I was going to inform the counselor that we had gone to once what she had said to me so that if anything did happen to me they would now who to talk to. She angrily responded: “if you try to take the kids away from me, I will…”(she didn’t finish). I have never threatened to divorce or leave her and I hope to keep the family together. I don’t think an apology has ever entered her mind. We have recently relocated from my families’ home town to near her families’ home town…about 300 miles apart and I really don’t have anyone to back me up. She has family who are eager to assist her and she has a way of pursuading them, plus they don’t like to communicate with me. If she tried to take me on herself and I fought back, I would win the fight and probably get arrested too…that won’t happen. I can’t believe a rational woman would say something like that to her husband…do you suppose she actually thinks she could beat me up? I did call the counselor and she told me it was not a threat, it was her way of expressing the level of her anger. I guess I can’t argue with that. I still don’t like that she said that to me or in front of the kids. I will try to talk to our priest, but it is hard to talk to him and then go to church on sunday with my wife and children and sit near the front of the Church in the pew just in front of her mother and brothers.

I’m terribly sorry that you and your children have been exposed to this…I also feel sorry for your wife, for I have always believed that abusers are hurting inside, themselves. That being said, if she doesn’t see the wrong in this behavior, then I don’t imagine it will change. People who threaten, or verbally abuse others (I chose to use my example from man to woman, but I know that women can abuse as well) need serious help. An apology typically isn’t enough…the argument that you have had will not be the end of things, if she doesn’t get help for using the threat of violence to get her own way.

I will keep you in my prayers…! I’m so sorry you’re going through this.

 

[whatevergirl]

Forgive me adrift…as I think about what I posted, I didn’t mean to come across harshly…sorry about that. It is a topic that I have had personal experience with, and I just don’t believe that God would want us to place our marriages above our personal safety and well being of ourselves and kids.

Anyways, I apologize for coming across rudely.

 

[adrift]

Forgive me adrift…as I think about what I posted, I didn’t mean to come across harshly…sorry about that. It is a topic that I have had personal experience with, and I just don’t believe that God would want us to place our marriages above our personal safety and well being of ourselves and kids.

Anyways, I apologize for coming across rudely.

You didn’t. It was funny I thought this was what a women said from the beginning. It is from someone who feels helpless and is trying to gain some power over the situation. I don’t think it was a threat only a plea. If physical threat was present, I would agree with everyone else. A true threat should not be ignored but I don’t think we have that here.

 

[kage_ar]

My advice is still that there be some distance - separation does NOT mean divorce. It has saved many marriages.

 

[surfinpure]

First, I would not consider this an actual threat unless there were some history of violence, including throwing or breaking objects, or using physical force. People often say things they don’t mean and would never say when they become very angry. This doesn’t mean they have any intention of carrying them out.

That does not, of course, excuse the behavior. If I were the spouse who said the words, I would sit down everyone who was present at the time they were said and offer a calm and sincere apology, being sure to include the reason why such a thing is so unacceptable. I would then ask for their forgiveness one at a time and give them a physical reassurance (like a hug) that I loved them.

If I were the spouse on the receiving end of these words, I would remove myself (and the children, if necessary) from the situation and wait for the spouse’s anger to abate. Then, at the appropriate time, I would approach him or her about the words, say that I find that expression completely unacceptable, and offer a chance to apologize to all of us. If no apology came after a reasonable amount of time, I would determine if the words really were a threat, and act accordingly. I would also speak with the children who witnessed the scene and give them what comfort and reassurance I could that their home is a safe place (if, indeed, this is true).

 

[whatevergirl]

My advice is still that there be some distance - separation does NOT mean divorce. It has saved many marriages.

I agree–it saved mine. There was no threats or anything…I just needed to grow up a bit and learn that the joys of marriage, will also be mixed with the sacrifices. And neither is mutually exclusive of one another.

 

[surfinpure]

U r a good reader. It was my wife who said this to me in front of our children. And I was stunned. After we were alone, I told her I wanted to talk to her and explained to her how wrong I thought it was for her to say that to me and how often I had fought the urge to say something like that to her when she had done some of her many dirty little tricks on me, but I never did say anything like that to her because I didn’t want her to feel threatened. She just got angry and walked away. The next morning I told her I was going to inform the counselor that we had gone to once what she had said to me so that if anything did happen to me they would now who to talk to. She angrily responded: “if you try to take the kids away from me, I will…”(she didn’t finish). I have never threatened to divorce or leave her and I hope to keep the family together. I don’t think an apology has ever entered her mind. We have recently relocated from my families’ home town to near her families’ home town…about 300 miles apart and I really don’t have anyone to back me up. She has family who are eager to assist her and she has a way of pursuading them, plus they don’t like to communicate with me. If she tried to take me on herself and I fought back, I would win the fight and probably get arrested too…that won’t happen. I can’t believe a rational woman would say something like that to her husband…do you suppose she actually thinks she could beat me up? I did call the counselor and she told me it was not a threat, it was her way of expressing the level of her anger. I guess I can’t argue with that. I still don’t like that she said that to me or in front of the kids. I will try to talk to our priest, but it is hard to talk to him and then go to church on sunday with my wife and children and sit near the front of the Church in the pew just in front of her mother and brothers.

Sorry, I hadn’t read this when I posted.

If your wife has no history of physical violence, then the counselor is right: it is not a threat. If she is still willing to see the counselor with you, that is the best way to work through her anger issues. The counselor can also give you some strategies for how to respond when she lashes out that way.

My concern is what the children are experiencing. If this is a recurring problem, they may need some counseling of their own to learn how to think it out and manage their emotions. Children tend to internalize a lot of what bounces off adults. They also learn behaviors and implement them into their adult lives. So they need a way to work through this, and they especially need (but may not get) an apology from their mother.

 

[Seatuck]

Interestingly the OP went to pains not to id the sex. Everyone here has assumed it is the husband. Also the statement has been changed from I ought to to I am going to.
Perhaps the fact that so many have said they would leave shows why the divorce rate it so high.

I agree on the one point. I’m surprised in this day and age so many would assume the man is the one making the threat.

As for one or the other leaving that might be the best course of action on a temporary basis for both spouses.

 

[surfinpure]

I agree on the one point. I’m surprised in this day and age so many would assume the man is the one making the threat.

As for one or the other leaving that might be the best course of action on a temporary basis for both spouses.

While the majority of domestic violence happens at the hands of men (re: Gavin de Becker’s* The Gift of Fear*), there are plenty of women who do it, too, and even more who threaten. Having been the recipient of domestic violence as a child, and later the one guilty of it, I know that women are very capable of this sort of thing. Sometimes women even feel justified, because they are smaller or weaker, and they think it evens the score somehow.

 

[ChristinaM]

Having grown up in a household where I heard my mother saying these sorts of things to my father, I have no problem believing it was the wife who said this to her husband. Verbal and emotional abuse is just as real as physical abuse. I wish people would take it more seriously.

And yes, I think my mother seriously thought it was okay because she was the “little woman.” My father would tell her not to say such horrible things and she would openly mock him and tell him to be a “real man.” The good thing is that because of this experience I see the importance of a wife respecting her husband especially in front of the kids. I would not ever put my children through that.

Tread carefully. In my father’s case he had to separate from my mother to finally make it stop. I hope you can work this through in counseling. In the meantime I will pray for you and your wife.

 

[phantom]

I .

We have recently relocated from my families’ home town to near her families’ home town…about 300 miles apart and I really don’t have anyone to back me up.Good. You and she need to work this out without bystanders getting into the mix.Talk to the counselor about how to limit your wife’s family’s engagement in your relationship.I’m glad it won’t happen, but it’s a little troubling that you are even THINKING this.Agreed. But it WAS a threat and it is absolutely out of bounds. Has your wife ever really left her parents and cleft to you? “Leave and cleave” – there’s a reason that’s in the Bible!

I don’t see how I can practically accomplish limiting “my wife’s family’s engagement in your relationship”. Give me some ideas, please. I agree thinking of a physical fight between my wife and I is troubling. How does a man respond? I can’t hit her back and she knows it. She is 47 years old, going through menopause, hasn’t been to a doctor in years(5+), refuses to go to a doctor, her family just flat out will not communicate with me. I talk to them, they sound concerned and do nothing.

 

[mercygate]

We have recently relocated from my families’ home town to near her families’ home town…about 300 miles apart and I really don’t have anyone to back me up.

Good. You and she need to work this out without bystanders getting into the mix.Talk to the counselor about how to limit your wife’s family’s engagement in your relationship.I’m glad it won’t happen, but it’s a little troubling that you are even THINKING this.Agreed. But it WAS a threat and it is absolutely out of bounds. Has your wife ever really left her parents and cleft to you? “Leave and cleave” – there’s a reason that’s in the Bible!

I don’t see how I can practically accomplish limiting “my wife’s family’s engagement in your relationship”. Give me some ideas, please. I agree thinking of a physical fight between my wife and I is troubling. How does a man respond? I can’t hit her back and she knows it. She is 47 years old, going through menopause, hasn’t been to a doctor in years(5+), refuses to go to a doctor, her family just flat out will not communicate with me. I talk to them, they sound concerned and do nothing.

She hasn’t been to a doctor in FIVE years? I don’t know what to say or how anybody can “make” her go, but if she doesn’t love herself enough to take care of herself, how can she love anybody else.

This is complex. The family dynamic, her way of expressing frustration, the medical piece all pile on to make a very difficult package. Well, this is what you meant when you said “I do” “for better or for worse, in sickness and in health.” Talk to that counselor!

You are not the first man in the world to find yourself in such a situation.

Browse the public library for self-help books. They can be good. Look on Jim Dobson’s web site also. Focus on the Family is very good with things like this.

Godspeed, my friend.

 

[surfinpure]

I don’t see how I can practically accomplish limiting “my wife’s family’s engagement in your relationship”. Give me some ideas, please. I agree thinking of a physical fight between my wife and I is troubling. How does a man respond? I can’t hit her back and she knows it. She is 47 years old, going through menopause, hasn’t been to a doctor in years(5+), refuses to go to a doctor, her family just flat out will not communicate with me. I talk to them, they sound concerned and do nothing.

Again, I don’t believe her words constitute a threat unless prior behavior would indicate otherwise. If she actually carries anything out, have her arrested.

It sounds like what she said is only the tip of the iceberg where your problems are concerned. I would urge you, even if you have to go by yourself, to get more counseling. You need some very good guidance in how to handle this situation at home, and something stronger than we can offer on the forums.

 

[GhostMan]

Wow, the tone of this changed when the actual sexes were revealed. Hmmmm. Typical, actual.

My advice is to take the kids and leave for a while. do not accept unacceptable behavior. What she said was a threat and needs to be treated that way. If she did start to thrash you, could you fight back? No. Could you even defend yourself? No. You are in a no-win situation. Your children may be at risk here; she obviously has temper and anger problems. For their sakes, do not treat this lightly.

Just because she is a woman does not mean she can get away with threats and unacceptable words. Perhaps she is sick; perhaps she is mentally ill. Fine. Help her - from a distance.

Since you live near her family, ask her to go to them. Take this seriously. Keep your children safe!

 

[mercygate]

Wow, the tone of this changed when the actual sexes were revealed. Hmmmm. Typical, actual.

My advice is to take the kids and leave for a while. do not accept unacceptable behavior. What she said was a threat and needs to be treated that way. If she did start to thrash you, could you fight back? No. Could you even defend yourself? No. You are in a no-win situation. Your children may be at risk here; she obviously has temper and anger problems. For their sakes, do not treat this lightly.

Just because she is a woman does not mean she can get away with threats and unacceptable words. Perhaps she is sick; perhaps she is mentally ill. Fine. Help her - from a distance.

Since you live near her family, ask her to go to them. Take this seriously. Keep your children safe!

I tend to agree that to say this was not a threat is to suggest that because the woman may not be “big” that she cannot escalate her words into more dangerous acts. She might not punch the guy out, but a malicious spouse can do a lot of other damage via the bank book, personal property damage, poisoning the kids (who seem to be in duck-and-cover mode anyway).

Although having her to go to her family might at some point be workable, NOTHING should be done without consulting the counselor AND a good attorney. In the world of legal arrangements, ANYTHING you do, even with the best of motives, can and WILL be used against you in court.

 

[cecilia97]

I would ask them to leave the house and if they refused I would leave with the children. After things calmed down (in a day or two) I would discuss steps for counseling. Although, I would not let my children be in an environment where words like that or marital arguments are done within their hearing.

I think this is exactly what I would do. There are only a few reasons for statements like that:

• the person wants to be emotionally abusive
• the person wants to be physically abusive
• the person has some old issues that need to be worked on
• the person is trying to get shock value
• the person has totally forgotten to be kind to the spouse

In ALL of the above cases, counseling is called for.

A spouse putting up with this is not weak, I think. Maybe misled.

People will act abusively at times. We all do. I try not to let the same person treat me badly twice.

 

[surfinpure]

Wow, the tone of this changed when the actual sexes were revealed. Hmmmm. Typical, actual.

My advice is to take the kids and leave for a while. do not accept unacceptable behavior. What she said was a threat and needs to be treated that way. If she did start to thrash you, could you fight back? No. Could you even defend yourself? No. You are in a no-win situation. Your children may be at risk here; she obviously has temper and anger problems. For their sakes, do not treat this lightly.

Just because she is a woman does not mean she can get away with threats and unacceptable words. Perhaps she is sick; perhaps she is mentally ill. Fine. Help her - from a distance.

Since you live near her family, ask her to go to them. Take this seriously. Keep your children safe!

It is so easy to tell someone to move out and take their children … or better yet, divorce the person! But the OP clearly stated that their marriage counselor, a person who knew them both intimately and heard all the details of the situation, determined these words were not a physical threat. Likewise, experience shows that, while words can be abusive in themselves (and these certainly were), they don’t always portend the actions they promise. To move out on the spur of the moment because of a single careless phrase in the heat of anger, when there is no history of the slightest physical violence, is overkill.

It is obvious the wife has emotional and quite possibly psychological/physiological problems as well. But abandonment of the spouse is not always the answer. A trained therapist ought to be advising on these issues, because only that therapist will have all the information, training, and experience to make an educated advisement. This is a delicate situation, and separating may help … or it may put the marriage in unnecessary jeopardy. That is why the OP needs desperately to talk with a professional.