Anguish, pain, shock in Muslim community after San Bernardino shooting

[Son_of_Niall]

When Mahmoud Tarifi learned the name of a suspect in Wednesday’s San Bernardino shooting, his heart sank. He said he knew the man may have been Muslim.

Tarifi, a leader at the Islamic Center of Claremont, was not alone.

After officials announced that a man named Syed Farook was a suspect, members of the faith’s community shared their sense of grief and concern.

Tarifi said American Muslims are accustomed to being targeted and scapegoated whenever violent Islamic extremists commit attacks.

“Every Muslim worries about being victimized,” he said. “It’s how we felt after 9/11 and after the Paris attacks.”

Aslam Abdullah, a Muslim scholar based in San Bernardino, felt a familiar pang in his stomach upon hearing the news.

latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-muslim-community-responds-to-shooting-20151202-story.html

 

[MiserableSinner]

Even if Muslims are not violent, their souls are endangered by their beliefs. We have to fight for their eternal souls.

I sometimes feel the worst about Muslims and Protestants. Both have been fed lies about God’s Son. I know how it feels to have wanted to do God’s will and find out I was continually tricked by Satan for years.

We have to sacrifice and pray for Muslims. The Holy Spirit can convert them. God is Love and He does not want them to perish.

 

[Padres1969]

Even if Muslims are not violent, their souls are endangered by their beliefs. We have to fight for their eternal souls.

I sometimes feel the worst about Muslims and Protestants. Both have been fed lies about God’s Son. I know how it feels to have wanted to do God’s will and find out I was continually tricked by Satan for years.

We have to sacrifice and pray for Muslims. The Holy Spirit can convert them. God is Love and He does not want them to perish.

Protestants have been fed lies about Christ? From my experience the differences between Catholics and Protestants aren’t generally differences on views on Christ (at least among the Trinitarian religions). The differences are more on the structure of the universal church.

 

[Upgrade25]

Protestants have been fed lies about Christ? From my experience the differences between Catholics and Protestants aren’t generally differences on views on Christ (at least among the Trinitarian religions). The differences are more on the structure of the universal church.

Perhaps he refers to lies about the Virgin Mary…

 

[zz912]

“Every Muslim worries about being victimized,” he said. “It’s how we felt after 9/11 and after the Paris attacks.”

Then might I suggest rooting out the violent Muslims in your midst???

 

[Padres1969]

“Every Muslim worries about being victimized,” he said. “It’s how we felt after 9/11 and after the Paris attacks.”

Then might I suggest rooting out the violent Muslims in your midst???

Of course that assumes there are any in their midst. Somehow I doubt Radical Islamists who hate moderate and liberal Muslims almost more than they hate Christians, Jews, and everyone else… really interact much with non-radical Muslims. At least not in any identifiable radical ways.

 

[Brandon_Cal]

Of course that assumes there are any in their midst. Somehow I doubt Radical Islamists who hate moderate and liberal Muslims almost more than they hate Christians, Jews, and everyone else… really interact much with non-radical Muslims. At least not in any identifiable radical ways.

This appears to me to assume that radicalization is an instantaneous event rather than a longer process. I would think that as an individual slowly becomes radicalized (in any ideology really) their speech and actions proportionally become more radical and their association with more moderate members of the group wanes inversely. This would imply that there exists a bit of time for the tell tale signs to be observed by the moderates for them to proactively do or say something about it.

Furthermore you have individuals who while they themselves wouldn’t act radically nevertheless stoke the flames of radicalism in other ways, which in turn leaves an impression on others leading to their own radicalization. It’s odd that while individuals like Carly Fiorina are sometimes implicated as having facilitated anti-abortion radicals like Robert Dear through their incisive speech (e.g. the contentious PP video she allegedly saw), and other conservatives for not speaking out against Carly Fiorina initially for sparking the flames, little seems to be said of Muslims who do next to nothing about radicalization within their own community. While I hate the way Muslims are being generalized and scapegoated for the acts of the relative few, there is a problem with “moderate Muslims” not voting with their feet and dollars. “Fixing” Islamic extremism is not the job of non-Muslims. They need to clean their own house.

 

[HelenRose]

Of course that assumes there are any in their midst. Somehow I doubt Radical Islamists who hate moderate and liberal Muslims almost more than they hate Christians, Jews, and everyone else… really interact much with non-radical Muslims. At least not in any identifiable radical ways.

I am pro-life. I don’t accept the blame that progressives drop on people who believe that human life is sacred. Still we are blamed when an insane man kills people at Planned Parenthood abortion clinic. I can understand how good Muslims resent being blamed for the insane actions of a Radical Muslim. Evil thrives on hate and terror. Evil wants me to blame all Muslims. I refuse to hate.

 

[Brandon_Cal]

As a positive example of what I was talking about in my last post:
foxnews.com/us/2013/04/24/mosque-where-boston-marathon-bombing-suspect-attended-has-controversial-past/print#ixzz2RQFKWdRo

Sheikh Ahmed Mansour, who has served on the APT board with Hale and founded the Quranists sect of Islam, leading to his eventual exile from his native Egypt, told FoxNews.com that the rhetoric at the Cambridge mosque gave him a bad feeling.

**“I was astonished seeing that this mosque, at the time I was there, was controlled by fanatics,” he said, recalling how he attended sunset prayers one Friday while he was a visiting fellow at Harvard Law School. “Their writings and teachings were fanatical. I left and refused to go back to pray. I left Egypt to escape the Muslim Brotherhood, but I had found it there.”
**
Mansour said fiery sermons can spur impressionable young men to violence, even if the speaker doesn’t explicitly advocate it.

“These terrorists who kill are victimized by the sheiks. So the criminal are the sheiks,” he said. “This mosque continues to increase fanaticism among Muslims.”

THIS is precisely what more Muslims should be doing. You can condemn the attacks until you’re blue in the face, say that they don’t represent “true Islam”, but unless words are backed up by action radicalization will continue. This holds true for any ideology.

 

[lax16]

Of course that assumes there are any in their midst. Somehow I doubt Radical Islamists who hate moderate and liberal Muslims almost more than they hate Christians, Jews, and everyone else… really interact much with non-radical Muslims. At least not in any identifiable radical ways.

algemeiner.com/2015/01/22/europes-radical-muslims-whats-true-and-whats-not/#

*Indeed, forensic psychiatrist and former CIA caseworker Marc Sageman, who studied 400 terrorists targeting the West, found that 75 percent of them grew up in upper- or middle class families. As Frontline reported, “The vast majority – 90 percent – came from caring, intact families. 63 percent had gone to college, as compared with the five or six percent typical in the third world.” In another study focusing on Muslims living in the West, Emory University’s N. Delia Deckard found that, “As respondents reported being more prosperous, they also reported having a more orthodox understanding of gender, a greater affinity towards Sharia-inspired justice systems, more anti-Westernness, and a greater willingness to sacrifice themselves for their faith. …] Our hypothesis that more religious respondents would be more likely to espouse radical beliefs regarding violence was confirmed strongly. Irrespective of the demographic control variables, level of fundamentalism was a significant and powerful predictor of willingness to engage in violence.”

Others have noted that instigators like Osama bin Laden tend to come from more educated classes. It is the foot-soldiers, the ones who carry out the attacks, who more often come from the underclass – people who are easily persuaded with promises of cash payments, or rewards to be paid to their survivors (a favorite tactic of Hamas and the Palestinian Authority, with help from Jordan’s Arab Bank.)*

 

[Padres1969]

algemeiner.com/2015/01/22/europes-radical-muslims-whats-true-and-whats-not/#

*Indeed, forensic psychiatrist and former CIA caseworker Marc Sageman, who studied 400 terrorists targeting the West, found that 75 percent of them grew up in upper- or middle class families. As Frontline reported, “The vast majority – 90 percent – came from caring, intact families. 63 percent had gone to college, as compared with the five or six percent typical in the third world.” In another study focusing on Muslims living in the West, Emory University’s N. Delia Deckard found that, “As respondents reported being more prosperous, they also reported having a more orthodox understanding of gender, a greater affinity towards Sharia-inspired justice systems, more anti-Westernness, and a greater willingness to sacrifice themselves for their faith. …] Our hypothesis that more religious respondents would be more likely to espouse radical beliefs regarding violence was confirmed strongly. Irrespective of the demographic control variables, level of fundamentalism was a significant and powerful predictor of willingness to engage in violence.”

Others have noted that instigators like Osama bin Laden tend to come from more educated classes. It is the foot-soldiers, the ones who carry out the attacks, who more often come from the underclass – people who are easily persuaded with promises of cash payments, or rewards to be paid to their survivors (a favorite tactic of Hamas and the Palestinian Authority, with help from Jordan’s Arab Bank.)*

As I said though, I highly doubt they go around to their non-radical family and friends espousing extreme radical ideals of bombing and mass killing (ie: Daesh or Al Queda levels of radicalism). Just expressing base conservative ideals does not make one a would be terrorist that someone would report to authorities.

I mean look at it from a Christian perspective. I consider many of the orthodox stances of Catholicism to be ultra conservative (dare I say even radical). Doesn’t mean I expect a anyone who espouses those ideals to go firebombing a building. Same can be said of most Muslims, even conservative one. There’s a reason most of the people who get radicalized family are quoted shortly there after as having no idea they were even conservative or capable of such things. They usually aren’t aware. The only people who know are usually those that radicalized them or that they’re working with to further their Islamist goals (and I highly doubt their going to report their handiwork to the authorities).

 

[Padres1969]

This appears to me to assume that radicalization is an instantaneous event rather than a longer process. I would think that as an individual slowly becomes radicalized (in any ideology really) their speech and actions proportionally become more radical and their association with more moderate members of the group wanes inversely. **This would imply that there exists a bit of time for the tell tale signs to be observed by the moderates for them to proactively do or say something about it. **

And yet that’s not actually the case. Take the 9-11 mastermind Mohammed Atta. The guy was by all accounts fairly normal, he ate and McDonalds and shopped at Walmart the night before. There was nothing that indicated that anything was really off about him until he whipped out a box cutter and took control of a jumbo jet. Yes there might be some clues and changes, but odds are, not enough that would warrant any kind of further scrutiny. And as I said above, having a small changes in speech or actions is not in any way an indicator of anything sinister. At least not on a level anyone can report to authorities if we don’t want to live in an ultra suspicious police state.

 

[Upgrade25]

I am pro-life. I don’t accept the blame that progressives drop on people who believe that human life is sacred. Still we are blamed when an insane man kills people at Planned Parenthood abortion clinic. I can understand how good Muslims resent being blamed for the insane actions of a Radical Muslim. Evil thrives on hate and terror. Evil wants me to blame all Muslims. I refuse to hate.

Ayyyyy! Yes.

 

[codefro]

“Every Muslim worries about being victimized,” he said. “It’s how we felt after 9/11 and after the Paris attacks.”

Then might I suggest rooting out the violent Muslims in your midst???

 

[Charliesj]

I am pro-life. I don’t accept the blame that progressives drop on people who believe that human life is sacred. Still we are blamed when an insane man kills people at Planned Parenthood abortion clinic. I can understand how good Muslims resent being blamed for the insane actions of a Radical Muslim. Evil thrives on hate and terror. Evil wants me to blame all Muslims. I refuse to hate.

I’m a gun owner that has never murdered anybody, I’m a pro life activist that has never bombed an abortion clinic, I’m a Catholic and I’ve never burned anyone in an inquisition. I’m willing to say not all Muslims are guilty for the acts of a few, but it drives me crazy that members of the media and even our own government don’t extent to me and millions of Americans like me the same courtesy

 

[HelenRose]

I’m a gun owner that has never murdered anybody, I’m a pro life activist that has never bombed an abortion clinic, I’m a Catholic and I’ve never burned anyone in an inquisition. I’m willing to say not all Muslims are guilty for the acts of a few, but it drives me crazy that members of the media and even our own government don’t extent to me and millions of Americans like me the same courtesy

It drives me crazy too. But, I sometime think that it is part of their game. It is a way of developing and fostering hate between groups in order to deflect attention from their actions.

 

[SAVINGRACE]

I am pro-life. I don’t accept the blame that progressives drop on people who believe that human life is sacred. Still we are blamed when an insane man kills people at Planned Parenthood abortion clinic. I can understand how good Muslims resent being blamed for the insane actions of a Radical Muslim. Evil thrives on hate and terror. Evil wants me to blame all Muslims. I refuse to hate.

:clapping::clapping:

 

[outremer]

“Every Muslim worries about being victimized,” he said. “It’s how we felt after 9/11 and after the Paris attacks.”

Then might I suggest rooting out the violent Muslims in your midst???

Or denounce their own religion’s founder who ordered them to wage war on us infidels and People of the Book. There are countless good and decent people who happen to be Muslim. They were born into it, and they have the freedom to leave it now. You can’t separate Islam and Mohammed- intricately, infinitely connected.

 

[outremer]

And what about the anguish and pain of the AMERICANS and their families who were killed, wounded and scarred for life?

 

[zz912]

Of course that assumes there are any in their midst. Somehow I doubt Radical Islamists who hate moderate and liberal Muslims almost more than they hate Christians, Jews, and everyone else… really interact much with non-radical Muslims. At least not in any identifiable radical ways.

He went to pray every single day at the mosque. They had multiple young men coming and going at all hours of the day and night from their apartment. This is a group of radical muslims we are talking about here. It’s not a lone wolf. And they are known in the community.