Angus Dei

[JAbellMI]

Sorry if I spelled that wrong. Is there anywhere that states exactly what the word to the Angus Dei are to be. In our sercive they say Lamb of God for the first time throught and then Lamb of God at the end before grant us peace. but in between they use many other names for God. I thought the whole point was to focus on the fact that we are about to receive the lamb of God not the Breadof Life or King Of Peace etc.

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut.

 

[Melissa]

Just how many times are they saying this? There’s only three lines in the Agnus Dei:
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi: miserere nobis (twice)
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi: dona nobis pacem.

in English:
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world: have mercy on us (twice)
Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world: grant us peace.

But yes–the words are set in the missal, and I am unaware of anything that allows for variation (in other words, it’s not necessary to prove that it cannot be changed; those who want to change it need to produce documentation [which I believe doesn’t exist] that such changes are permitted).

 

[Phemie]

Sorry if I spelled that wrong. Is there anywhere that states exactly what the word to the Angus Dei are to be. In our sercive they say Lamb of God for the first time throught and then Lamb of God at the end before grant us peace. but in between they use many other names for God. I thought the whole point was to focus on the fact that we are about to receive the lamb of God not the Breadof Life or King Of Peace etc.

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut.

Lamb of God, you take away the sin of the world, have mercy on us. (Said at least twice, but can be said as many times as required to cover the entire fraction rite.)
Lamb of God, you take away the sin of the word, grant us peace.

Now, when sung, the USCCB’s recent document on music says that you can have tropes (i.e. Bread of Life; Light of the world, Son of God, verses). AFAIK, no other bishops’ conference has ever approved that and that USCCB document on music has not been approved by Rome.

 

[benedictgal]

Lamb of God, you take away the sin of the world, have mercy on us. (Said at least twice, but can be said as many times as required to cover the entire fraction rite.)
Lamb of God, you take away the sin of the word, grant us peace.

Now, when sung, the USCCB’s recent document on music says that you can have tropes (i.e. Bread of Life; Light of the world, Son of God, verses). AFAIK, no other bishops’ conference has ever approved that and that USCCB document on music has not been approved by Rome.

Furthermore, the tropes are added only if the Fraction Rite goes on longer than it is supposed to go, as you covered Phemie.

This is one huge flaw in the USCCB document.

 

[MusicMan]

Start the Agnus Dei at the first “snap” of the fraction (believe me, it’s audible), sing the three verses, and be done. No need to cutesy or creative here. Just sing it like you’re supposed to. Ug.

 

[Phemie]

Start the Agnus Dei at the first “snap” of the fraction (believe me, it’s audible), sing the three verses, and be done. No need to cutesy or creative here. Just sing it like you’re supposed to. Ug.

You can, licitly, sing it until the end of the fraction rite which can take more or less time depending on whether you use a 2.25" host which needs at most 2 snaps or a 5.5"+ host which needs to be broken into anywhere from 24-60 pieces.

Per GIRM # 83:

The priest breaks the Bread and puts a piece of the host into the chalice to signify the unity of the Body and Blood of the Lord in the work of salvation, namely, of the living and glorious Body of Jesus Christ. The supplication Agnus Dei, is, as a rule, sung by the choir or cantor with the congregation responding; or it is, at least, recited aloud. This invocation accompanies the fraction and, for this reason, may be repeated as many times as necessary until the rite has reached its conclusion, the last time ending with the words dona nobis pacem (grant us peace).

 

[Zahmir]

This was only a problem when priests poured out Christ’s blood after the consecration. Now that the priest separates out the wine before the consecration, the Agnus Dei has no need to go beyond the minimum.

It shouldn’t take the priest so long to break the bread.

 

[Phemie]

This was only a problem when priests poured out Christ’s blood after the consecration. Now that the priest separates out the wine before the consecration, the Agnus Dei has no need to go beyond the minimum.

It shouldn’t take the priest so long to break the bread.

Again, depends on the size of the large host and on whether or not the parish uses hosts or bread (yes, I know hosts are bread, but you know what I mean). Bread takes a lot longer to break up into bite size pieces.

 

[MusicMan]

I suppose that it also depends on how many hosts needed to be divided up for the Communion Distributors. I haven’t seen a situation since the fractioning of the Precious Blood was reprobated where one would need to sing the Agnus Dei beyond the three verses, though.

 

[Phemie]

I suppose that it also depends on how many hosts needed to be divided up for the Communion Distributors. I haven’t seen a situation since the fractioning of the Precious Blood was reprobated where one would need to sing the Agnus Dei beyond the three verses, though.

If it started at the right time we’d have to say it more than three times every Saturday and Sunday. As it is, the pastor starts it halfway through the fractioning so he’s usually passing the ciborium around to the EMHCs & servers as we’re saying it. Yes, like a candy dish, help yourself then we’ll all receive together.

 

[MusicMan]

You’re not obligated to do it more than 3 times. You just have the option to do so. However, the Lamb of God is to begin at the start of the Fraction, so your pastor should be starting it far sooner.

 

[Phemie]

You’re not obligated to do it more than 3 times. You just have the option to do so. However, the Lamb of God is to begin at the start of the Fraction, so your pastor should be starting it far sooner.

Yes, I know, but first he looks around to see that the meet and greet, er, Sign of Peace, is over.

 

[John_Lilburne]

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“366. It is not permitted to substitute other chants for those found in the Order of Mass, such as at the Agnus Dei.”

“83. … The supplication Agnus Dei, is, as a rule, sung by the choir or cantor with the congregation responding; or it is, at least, recited aloud. This invocation accompanies the fraction and, for this reason, may be repeated as many times as necessary until the rite has reached its conclusion, the last time ending with the words dona nobis pacem (grant us peace).”

 

[benedictgal]

Again, depends on the size of the large host and on whether or not the parish uses hosts or bread (yes, I know hosts are bread, but you know what I mean). Bread takes a lot longer to break up into bite size pieces.

Actually, when my PV begins the Fraction Rite, with the large Sacred Host, he finishes at “dona nobis pacem”. Thus, the Fraction Rite shouldn’t take that long. Now, there are some parishes where the Agnus Dei begins even as the priest is going to the Tabernacle. During daily Mass, the people in the pews begin reciting the prayer at that moment, too.