Animal Cruelty (nothing gross)

[camerong]

And what does she feed her cat

It may indeed be true that having pets, because they require us to kill animals on their behalf, is unnecessary. But I suspect there is a distinction, in that carnivores need meat to be healthy, whereas humans do not. I do not assert that meat is unhealthy, per se, or that vegetarianism is more healthy, but certainly we can be very healthy without eating meat.

Further, there may be another distinction in that domesticated carnivores, if in the wild, would kill to acquire their food. We are not increasing the amount of suffering and death in animals, we are merely doing it rather than them–and I suspect we do it with less suffering than the animals.

But more importantly, you cannot disprove a belief by showing that we act inconsistently with that belief unless all of our actions are perfect.

 

[kimmielittle]

It may indeed be true that having pets, because they require us to kill animals on their behalf, is unnecessary. But I suspect there is a distinction, in that carnivores need meat to be healthy, whereas humans do not. I do not assert that meat is unhealthy, per se, or that vegetarianism is more healthy, but certainly we can be very healthy without eating meat.

Agreed
However, all humans are not the same. Some diets vegetarian or meat ] do not provide the same results. We can not so broadly paint health diets. I would say, it’s more a bodily metabolism of individuals.

Further, there may be another distinction in that domesticated carnivores, if in the wild, would kill to acquire their food. We are not increasing the amount of suffering and death in animals, we are merely doing it rather than them–and I suspect we do it with less suffering than the animals.

Agreed

But more importantly, you cannot disprove a belief by showing that we act inconsistently with that belief unless all of our actions are perfect.

Point taken, and a good one:thumbsup:

 

[camerong]

Agreed
However, all humans are not the same. Some diets vegetarian or meat ] do not provide the same results. We can not so broadly paint health diets. I would say, it’s more a bodily metabolism of individuals.

Thank you for your kind responses. Regarding your above statement, I would say that in cases where someone, because of a peculiar disorder or condition, requires meat, then meat becomes a necessity. Certainly, however, the vast, vast majority of people could, with minimal effort and education, be perfectly healthy with a vegetarian diet. Notice I am not against milk and eggs–I do not believe the majority of our population could survive healthily on a vegan diet, at least without extreme expense. But cows can give milk, and chicken eggs, without suffering, so we can justifiably consume protein from these sources (and while most milk and egg producers cause their animals to suffer, I purchase and advocate purchasing milk and eggs from sources which ensure as much as possible that animals are healthy and comfortable). And this is why I say that virtually no one NEEDS meat. The only nutritional value of meat is in its protein, fat, and few notable vitamins (including zinc). We can easily get protein, fat, and the vitamins from other sources. There is nothing magic about meat that cannot be replaced, in the way that the phytochemicals from vegetables cannot be derived elsewhere.

 

[kimmielittle]

Thank you for your kind responses. Regarding your above statement, I would say that in cases where someone, because of a peculiar disorder or condition, requires meat, then meat becomes a necessity. Certainly, however, the vast, vast majority of people could, with minimal effort and education, be perfectly healthy with a vegetarian diet. Notice I am not against milk and eggs–I do not believe the majority of our population could survive healthily on a vegan diet, at least without extreme expense. But cows can give milk, and chicken eggs, without suffering, so we can justifiably consume protein from these sources (and while most milk and egg producers cause their animals to suffer, I purchase and advocate purchasing milk and eggs from sources which ensure as much as possible that animals are healthy and comfortable). And this is why I say that virtually no one NEEDS meat. The only nutritional value of meat is in its protein, fat, and few notable vitamins (including zinc). We can easily get protein, fat, and the vitamins from other sources. There is nothing magic about meat that cannot be replaced, in the way that the phytochemicals from vegetables cannot be derived elsewhere.

Hiyas

I must say, you are one of the few vegetarians that I’ve seen / heard that approaches your beliefs in reason.

Many, represent with such as… animal husbandry is immoral…it’s cruel to animals and that is why I’m vegan / vegetarian. My point is being a vegan / vegetarian doesn’t stop factory farms or cruelty to animals …it only distances us from it. I think it sends the wrong signal.

I don’t support far left activists approach…i.e, destruction of property etc as being moral / ethical, above their concept any immorality of meat eaters Some, seem to think the end justifies the means. I think we need to distance ourselves from such organizations who promote this radial agenda. It does nothing to promote education of the benefits of healthy choices.

I think there is a saying " All things in moderation"

I agree in buying wisely from reputable sources. Do that - and we address “factory farm” issues.

As always, just my thoughts

 

[camerong]

Hiyas

I must say, you are one of the few vegetarians that I’ve seen / heard that approaches your beliefs in reason.
. . .
I don’t support far left activists approach…

Thanks! I agree about leftist vegetarians. I’m quite conservative, and it pains me that vegetarianism seems so often divided down political lines. I think it makes it so right-wingers don’t even consider it.

My point is being a vegan / vegetarian doesn’t stop factory farms or cruelty to animals …it only distances us from it. I think it sends the wrong signal.

Sure. And I doubt that I have impacted meat producers over the past six years. But I see eating meat as immoral, so it really doesn’t matter the practical effect. Practically, being a vegetarian has harmed me in a number of ways–for example, at one point, I would go on hunting trips with some pretty prominent people in my field, and I had to stop because I could no longer justify it.

I think there is a saying " All things in moderation"

Perhaps, and with many things (e.g., the beer at my desk right now) that is true. Though, of course, I see eating meat as wrong, so there is no moderation in it.