Animals after death

[thistle]

It is because we are human and** some of us want all we love to be with us, human and animals.** Isn’t it an insult to God to decide what happens to any of His creatures?

That is selfish because it means you are putting self before God and saying to God that he is not enough.

 

[Matrix_Refugee]

I agree. We’ll just have to wait and see. I know C.S. Lewis believed pets might well be in heaven. And, though it’s been a while since I read Peter Kreeft’s book about heaven, I think he thought along the same lines as Lewis about this question.

I hope they will be there.

Mmm! In “That Hideous Strength”, C. S. Lewis (through the character Elwin Ransom) describes animals as “‘our companions, our servants, and our playmates’”. I don’t doubt that God allows our pet animals to be with us in heaven: I have a feeling that my mother’s parakeet Merry is up there waiting for her, since the little guy did more good deeds during his time on earth than some humans do. My mother has a depression problem and Merry enjoyed doing funny things to cheer her up.

 

[bmullins]

Actually, that is the New Earth. There will be a new Heaven and a New Earth.

The new Earth will be populated with animals, that is certain, but they will not be immortal versions of the dog we had growning up. That cobra will be a new cobra.

If creation will not be translated, why would it ever groan for redemption?

 

[Joe_Kelley]

…

The new Earth will be populated with animals, that is certain, but they will not be immortal versions of the dog we had growning up. …

God created that dog once. I see nothing that limits Him from doing it again; creating the same dog with all the memories and capabilities he once had.

 

[yllektmas]

That is selfish because it means you are putting self before God and saying to God that he is not enough.

Sorry, but selfishness has nothing to do with caring for all of GOD’s creation, that would be selflessness. Selfishness is believing one has all the answers. By that standard, then why should we care about anyone else’s salvation outside of our own?

Now getting back to this topic:
The Bible does not state one way or the other about animals in heaven being that it was given to us by GOD as a guide to return to our salvation, which we lost by disobeying GOD’s law. The significance of the Human soul is where Jesus came to offer salvation, because, to put it bluntly, Mankind was the last of GOD’s creations who deserves a spot in heaven.

Since there is no real mention of animals or plants being saved, does that mean that they are not worthy of Heaven? NOT by a long shot. They are at the front of the line.

As ** JoArtist ** Mentioned:
“Why doesn’t anyone get that there is soul and spirit and they are separate things? The spirit is the immortal part of us and animals do not have it, they only have souls.”

Probably because you might not get it yourself. Yes, we do have a spirit and a soul, but I think you may have confused yourself on which is which. Speaking of Humans, as outside of church teachings there is no Biblical documentation on animals souls and spirits, Humankind has an immortal soul, and the spirit (breathe of life) which animates our material body. Soul=who we eternally are Spirit=that with which gives us life. Example being when the Holy spirit ascended onto the apostles. They were already who they were (their soul), the Holy Spirit infused them with more (Spirit) to act with while spreading the Gospel.

See, GOD entrusted us to take care of the animals, and the paradise he created. But does that mean that we are so important to believe that out of ALL of GOD’s creations, WE are the only things that matter? NOPE. Everything is a part of GOD being that he created it all. So Everything within creation is just as important.

The rest of creation followed GOD’s rules, so no saving is needed for them. But our Human parents Adam and Eve chose to disobey GOD. That’s where this whole Rational and Material soul/mind thing stems from. Just because we as humans know how to be irrational does not mean that the rest of creation does not have the ability to be rational. They already know GOD. They have never ceased Communing with GOD because they followed the rules. We on the other hand lost the ability to listen when GOD speaks to us.

So what happens to animals after physical death? it is not 100% fact, as we are rationally irrational human beings trying to cope with our own pride from the first moment we disobeyed GOD.

But I have a feeling that the Animals, the Trees, and the rest of creation are not sweating it as much as we are.

 

[PeterGStanley]

Nobody here can answer the question - we don’t know how it will be - unless you have come back from the dead - anybody?

 

[severus68]

Sorry, but selfishness has nothing to do with caring for all of GOD’s creation, that would be selflessness. Selfishness is believing one has all the answers. By that standard, then why should we care about anyone else’s salvation outside of our own?

Now getting back to this topic:
The Bible does not state one way or the other about animals in heaven being that it was given to us by GOD as a guide to return to our salvation, which we lost by disobeying GOD’s law. The significance of the Human soul is where Jesus came to offer salvation, because, to put it bluntly, Mankind was the last of GOD’s creations who deserves a spot in heaven.

Since there is no real mention of animals or plants being saved, does that mean that they are not worthy of Heaven? NOT by a long shot. They are at the front of the line.

As ** JoArtist ** Mentioned:
“Why doesn’t anyone get that there is soul and spirit and they are separate things? The spirit is the immortal part of us and animals do not have it, they only have souls.”

Probably because you might not get it yourself. Yes, we do have a spirit and a soul, but I think you may have confused yourself on which is which. Speaking of Humans, as outside of church teachings there is no Biblical documentation on animals souls and spirits, Humankind has an immortal soul, and the spirit (breathe of life) which animates our material body. Soul=who we eternally are Spirit=that with which gives us life. Example being when the Holy spirit ascended onto the apostles. They were already who they were (their soul), the Holy Spirit infused them with more (Spirit) to act with while spreading the Gospel.

See, GOD entrusted us to take care of the animals, and the paradise he created. But does that mean that we are so important to believe that out of ALL of GOD’s creations, WE are the only things that matter? NOPE. Everything is a part of GOD being that he created it all. So Everything within creation is just as important.

The rest of creation followed GOD’s rules, so no saving is needed for them. But our Human parents Adam and Eve chose to disobey GOD. That’s where this whole Rational and Material soul/mind thing stems from. Just because we as humans know how to be irrational does not mean that the rest of creation does not have the ability to be rational. They already know GOD. They have never ceased Communing with GOD because they followed the rules. We on the other hand lost the ability to listen when GOD speaks to us.

So what happens to animals after physical death? it is not 100% fact, as we are rationally irrational human beings trying to cope with our own pride from the first moment we disobeyed GOD.

But I have a feeling that the Animals, the Trees, and the rest of creation are not sweating it as much as we are.

 

[severus68]

Mmm! In “That Hideous Strength”, C. S. Lewis (through the character Elwin Ransom) describes animals as “‘our companions, our servants, and our playmates’”. I don’t doubt that God allows our pet animals to be with us in heaven: I have a feeling that my mother’s parakeet Merry is up there waiting for her, since the little guy did more good deeds during his time on earth than some humans do. My mother has a depression problem and Merry enjoyed doing funny things to cheer her up.

Digressing a bit from the topic, how many human beings will sit by someone who is chronically ill day in and day out wihout grumbling and feeling resentful after a while?

 

[andrewstx]

I wonder if ethnicity may have something to do with various responses. I am Eastern Rite and none of my Greek friends really love their dogs or even let them in the house. In fact their was a debate several years ago about service (seeing-eye) dogs in the Greek churches. The majority said that the blind people would have to enter without their dogs since the dog would “desecrate” the church.

I live rurally in the country, among many latinos. My nearest neighbors allow their dogs to run wild and breed at will. No fences and none allowed indoors. One of their dogs a chihuahua dissapeared and the woman accuse me of stealing it. Of course I didn’t.

What I immagined happened was he was eaten or killed by a coyote pack. A tiny chihuahua can’t make it when attacked by coyotes.

The solution was so easy, let him in at night so he can be safe.

 

[Brendan]

If creation will not be translated, why would it ever groan for redemption?

That is why it will be both a New Earth and a New Heaven. All of creation will be redone.

All the old will pass away.

(Rev 21)

 

[Brendan]

God created that dog once. I see nothing that limits Him from doing it again; creating the same dog with all the memories and capabilities he once had.

Yes, God can create a dog that looks the same and has memories identical to the old one.

I will agree to that.

But neither of them will have been, or will be, immortal like a human.

 

[thistle]

**Sorry, but selfishness has nothing to do with caring for all of GOD’s creation, that would be selflessness. **Selfishness is believing one has all the answers. By that standard, then why should we care about anyone else’s salvation outside of our own?

Now getting back to this topic:
The Bible does not state one way or the other about animals in heaven being that it was given to us by GOD as a guide to return to our salvation, which we lost by disobeying GOD’s law. The significance of the Human soul is where Jesus came to offer salvation, because, to put it bluntly, Mankind was the last of GOD’s creations who deserves a spot in heaven.

Since there is no real mention of animals or plants being saved, does that mean that they are not worthy of Heaven? NOT by a long shot. They are at the front of the line.

As ** JoArtist ** Mentioned:
“Why doesn’t anyone get that there is soul and spirit and they are separate things? The spirit is the immortal part of us and animals do not have it, they only have souls.”

Probably because you might not get it yourself. Yes, we do have a spirit and a soul, but I think you may have confused yourself on which is which. Speaking of Humans, as outside of church teachings there is no Biblical documentation on animals souls and spirits, Humankind has an immortal soul, and the spirit (breathe of life) which animates our material body. Soul=who we eternally are Spirit=that with which gives us life. Example being when the Holy spirit ascended onto the apostles. They were already who they were (their soul), the Holy Spirit infused them with more (Spirit) to act with while spreading the Gospel.

See, GOD entrusted us to take care of the animals, and the paradise he created. But does that mean that we are so important to believe that out of ALL of GOD’s creations, WE are the only things that matter? NOPE. Everything is a part of GOD being that he created it all. So Everything within creation is just as important.

The rest of creation followed GOD’s rules, so no saving is needed for them. But our Human parents Adam and Eve chose to disobey GOD. That’s where this whole Rational and Material soul/mind thing stems from. Just because we as humans know how to be irrational does not mean that the rest of creation does not have the ability to be rational. They already know GOD. They have never ceased Communing with GOD because they followed the rules. We on the other hand lost the ability to listen when GOD speaks to us.

So what happens to animals after physical death? it is not 100% fact, as we are rationally irrational human beings trying to cope with our own pride from the first moment we disobeyed GOD.

But I have a feeling that the Animals, the Trees, and the rest of creation are not sweating it as much as we are.

No problem caring for God’s creation while alive but to think you need animals around you in Heaven for love and comfort means you do not put God first. You are putting yourself first.

When animals die their bodies decompose and their souls cease to exist.

As I said in an earlier post I am not saying there will not be animals in Heaven. I am saying that it won’t be because their souls went their after they die. Only humans have immortal souls and only humans have a supernatural end. That is the Church teaching.
Whether God will recreate animals to be in Heaven is a different story.

 

[Catholic90]

NO. When the animal dies their soul simply ceases to exist. It is not recycled anywhere.

.

Is a soul energy?

Energy cannot be created or destroyed. That is basic physics.

So if a soul is energy, and if energy cannot be destroyed, the animal’s energy (or soul) cannot just “cease to exist”. It must go somewhere.

The bottom line is: We do not know what happens to animals. We trust God to take care of them after death.

I personally believe God takes them to heaven to be with Him, since animals cannot sin! Animals cannot reject God, so they automatically get to be with Him forever!

 

[yllektmas]

No problem caring for God’s creation while alive but to think you need animals around you in Heaven for love and comfort means you do not put God first. You are putting yourself first.

When animals die their bodies decompose and their souls cease to exist.

As I said in an earlier post I am not saying there will not be animals in Heaven. I am saying that it won’t be because their souls went their after they die. Only humans have immortal souls and only humans have a supernatural end. That is the Church teaching.
Whether God will recreate animals to be in Heaven is a different story.

No problem caring for God’s creation while alive but to think you need animals around you in Heaven for love and comfort means you do not put God first. You are putting yourself first.
That was not what I said. But Along that line of thinking, being concerned with anybody else’s salvation, even your own, would be considered placing yourself first as this leads to the thinking that GOD needs us in some fashion, which is obviously not the case. that is why I compared selfishness with selflessness.

As I said in an earlier post I am not saying there will not be animals in Heaven. I am saying that it won’t be because their souls went their after they die.

You have stated this numerous times within this thread, but have sighted nothing to pass this belief on to those who are truly searching for an answer beyond just re-reading what you have posted.

Pope John Paul II stated in 1990 during an address to a public audience that Animals do in deed have souls. as well as stating animals have the breath of life and were given it by God. In this respect, man, created by the hand of God, is identical with all other living creatures.

This brings up the Paradise, we were kicked out of for disobeying GOD. This paradise knew not death until Adam and Eve were kicked out. Which would mean that the paradise GOD created was in fact immortal, meaning no death, no decay, no ceasing to exist. Animals would have had to be immortal and by stating that animals do not have an immortal soul means that GOD changed his mind after Adam and Eve where expelled.

When animals die their bodies decompose and their souls cease to exist.

The human body, with some exceptions to certain saints, decompose when the soul leaves the body. Since this is the same thing which happens to the animal body in your statement, then one would suspect that the same thing would be true to the human soul as well. BUT, we have scripture which states that the human soul leaves the body and remains existing. Since there is no detailed description of what happens to the animal soul, that does not mean that it ceases to exist. So this leads back to Pope John Paul II statement where he says man, created by the hand of God, is identical with all other living creatures.

It is worth pointing out that The Holy Bible was written for Humankind’s salvational interests for Mankind to follow to regain their once saved state. A state that the animals never lost, thus their immortal souls from the days when all was well in paradise were never and to this day are not at jeopardy of any punishment or ceasing to exist.

As a side note:
I really value this discussion, and in no way am I trying to argue or disrespect anyone. I am merely debating an issue that is very important to some. This is a topic that has been brought up numerous time throughout the years and it is a healthy debate. So please know that I mean no disrespect with anything in my posts.

 

[Catholic90]

It is worth pointing out that The Holy Bible was written for Humankind’s salvational interests for Mankind to follow to regain their once saved state. A state that the animals never lost, thus their immortal souls from the days when all was well in paradise were never and to this day are not at jeopardy of any punishment or ceasing to exist.

 

[Mintaka]

Actually, Creation did fall. It fell through the sin of Adam and Eve. Just as Adam and Eve were set up to be the heads of the human race, they were put at the head of Creation also. When they fell, they messed up all of Creation as well as the human race, brought death and destruction into the world, etc.

Yes, this stinks for the animals, plants, rocks, gases, plasmas, etc., even more than it stinks for us. Creation has a right to groan for salvation.

But yes, dogs are fallen. Not through their fault, not through any dogs’ fault. If Adam had not fallen, dogs would not die. But Adam and Eve betrayed dogdom (and plantdom, and rockdom, and every electron in the universe) when all Creation fell through their sin.

 

[thistle]

No problem caring for God’s creation while alive but to think you need animals around you in Heaven for love and comfort means you do not put God first. You are putting yourself first.
That was not what I said. But Along that line of thinking, being concerned with anybody else’s salvation, even your own, would be considered placing yourself first as this leads to the thinking that GOD needs us in some fashion, which is obviously not the case. that is why I compared selfishness with selflessness.

As I said in an earlier post I am not saying there will not be animals in Heaven. I am saying that it won’t be because their souls went their after they die.

You have stated this numerous times within this thread, but have sighted nothing to pass this belief on to those who are truly searching for an answer beyond just re-reading what you have posted.

Pope John Paul II stated in 1990 during an address to a public audience that Animals do in deed have souls. as well as stating animals have the breath of life and were given it by God. In this respect, man, created by the hand of God, is identical with all other living creatures.

This brings up the Paradise, we were kicked out of for disobeying GOD. This paradise knew not death until Adam and Eve were kicked out. Which would mean that the paradise GOD created was in fact immortal, meaning no death, no decay, no ceasing to exist. Animals would have had to be immortal and by stating that animals do not have an immortal soul means that GOD changed his mind after Adam and Eve where expelled.

When animals die their bodies decompose and their souls cease to exist.

The human body, with some exceptions to certain saints, decompose when the soul leaves the body. Since this is the same thing which happens to the animal body in your statement, then one would suspect that the same thing would be true to the human soul as well. BUT, we have scripture which states that the human soul leaves the body and remains existing. Since there is no detailed description of what happens to the animal soul, that does not mean that it ceases to exist. So this leads back to Pope John Paul II statement where he says man, created by the hand of God, is identical with all other living creatures.

It is worth pointing out that The Holy Bible was written for Humankind’s salvational interests for Mankind to follow to regain their once saved state. A state that the animals never lost, thus their immortal souls from the days when all was well in paradise were never and to this day are not at jeopardy of any punishment or ceasing to exist.

As a side note:
I really value this discussion, and in no way am I trying to argue or disrespect anyone. I am merely debating an issue that is very important to some. This is a topic that has been brought up numerous time throughout the years and it is a healthy debate. So please know that I mean no disrespect with anything in my posts.

I’m not sure what part of what I wrote is confusing to you.
The Church teaching states that it is humans who have an immortal soul and a supernatural end. When we die we either go to Hell or are saved (Heaven or Purgatory first).
Animals do not have an immortal soul and do not have a supernatural end. When they die they are neither condemned to Hell nor saved. They simply cease to exist.

What part of that is confusing to you or you disagree with then I can focus on responding more specifically.

I just noticed you stated animals have souls too. That is correct but they are not spiritual or immortal.

 

[yllektmas]

I’m not sure what part of what I wrote is confusing to you.
The Church teaching states that it is humans who have an immortal soul and a supernatural end. When we die we either go to Hell or are saved (Heaven or Purgatory first).
Animals do not have an immortal soul and do not have a supernatural end. When they die they are neither condemned to Hell nor saved. They simply cease to exist.

What part of that is confusing to you or you disagree with then I can focus on responding more specifically.

I just noticed you stated animals have souls too. That is correct but they are not spiritual or immortal.

I’m not sure what part of what I wrote is confusing to you.
The part that is confusing me is that you are stating your posts as matter of fact without sighting anything of REAL USE for anyone who is truly searching for an answer. Not even a reason why you believe what you post. without meaning any disrespect, I am sorry to say that your responses sound condescending, as if you are the end all to this discussion. I was hoping that you might have been in this for a legitimate debate instead of talking down to people. But again, you are presenting your posts as if you are an expert on the matter.

Example of repeated responses
The Church teaching states that it is humans who have an immortal soul and a supernatural end. When we die we either go to Hell or are saved (Heaven or Purgatory first).
okay, this one is agreed as this topic is regarding to animals, and we do have The Holy Bible to back this one up for you. So no sighting is expected for this comment.

Animals do not have an immortal soul and do not have a supernatural end.
Really? Why? This one you seem to have a very strong belief in, so please sight some reasoning for this, or direct the reader to a definitive location where one can find the exact information which leads to your very passionate belief.

When they die they are neither condemned to Hell nor saved.
Exactly!!! Animals DO NOT NEED salvation because they did not disobey GOD. Humankind did. But why do you believe this? again, please sight your reasoning.

They simply cease to exist.
I have no idea where this is found so again, Please sight your sources or reasoning

I just noticed you stated animals have souls too. That is correct but they are not spiritual or immortal
Please re-read my previous post as I explain that this is more than likely NOT the case. But I would love to hear your response as to why you believe this.

Again, I do not mean any disrespect. But I was under the assumption that this thread, and the forum for that matter, was created in the search of resourceful answers, not one repeated phrase as law. And by no means did I mean to upset you or anyone else. Like I stated in my last post, this is a topic that has been debated and a question that has been asked for many years. A topic that NO ONE seems to have presented the answer to where the one searching comes away without any doubts. This would be a wonderful environment for everyone to share their knowledge and resources in a manner which we all can learn.

 

[severus68]

Is a soul energy?

Energy cannot be created or destroyed. That is basic physics.

So if a soul is energy, and if energy cannot be destroyed, the animal’s energy (or soul) cannot just “cease to exist”. It must go somewhere.

The bottom line is: We do not know what happens to animals. We trust God to take care of them after death.

I personally believe God takes them to heaven to be with Him, since animals cannot sin! Animals cannot reject God, so they automatically get to be with Him forever!

Very well said and I agree.

 

[severus68]

No problem caring for God’s creation while alive but to think you need animals around you in Heaven for love and comfort means you do not put God first. You are putting yourself first.
That was not what I said. But Along that line of thinking, being concerned with anybody else’s salvation, even your own, would be considered placing yourself first as this leads to the thinking that GOD needs us in some fashion, which is obviously not the case. that is why I compared selfishness with selflessness.

As I said in an earlier post I am not saying there will not be animals in Heaven. I am saying that it won’t be because their souls went their after they die.

You have stated this numerous times within this thread, but have sighted nothing to pass this belief on to those who are truly searching for an answer beyond just re-reading what you have posted.

Pope John Paul II stated in 1990 during an address to a public audience that Animals do in deed have souls. as well as stating animals have the breath of life and were given it by God. In this respect, man, created by the hand of God, is identical with all other living creatures.

This brings up the Paradise, we were kicked out of for disobeying GOD. This paradise knew not death until Adam and Eve were kicked out. Which would mean that the paradise GOD created was in fact immortal, meaning no death, no decay, no ceasing to exist. Animals would have had to be immortal and by stating that animals do not have an immortal soul means that GOD changed his mind after Adam and Eve where expelled.

When animals die their bodies decompose and their souls cease to exist.

The human body, with some exceptions to certain saints, decompose when the soul leaves the body. Since this is the same thing which happens to the animal body in your statement, then one would suspect that the same thing would be true to the human soul as well. BUT, we have scripture which states that the human soul leaves the body and remains existing. Since there is no detailed description of what happens to the animal soul, that does not mean that it ceases to exist. So this leads back to Pope John Paul II statement where he says man, created by the hand of God, is identical with all other living creatures.

It is worth pointing out that The Holy Bible was written for Humankind’s salvational interests for Mankind to follow to regain their once saved state. A state that the animals never lost, thus their immortal souls from the days when all was well in paradise were never and to this day are not at jeopardy of any punishment or ceasing to exist.

As a side note:
I really value this discussion, and in no way am I trying to argue or disrespect anyone. I am merely debating an issue that is very important to some. This is a topic that has been brought up numerous time throughout the years and it is a healthy debate. So please know that I mean no disrespect with anything in my posts.

Thank you.