Animals & souls

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maize

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imsure this has been done to death but the three threads i found didnt have the subject matter i was looking for.

im looking for some documents from aquinas or assisi concerning the differing souls of humans and animals. ive found articles that said these saints wrote about the subject, but not the original text.

also im looking for a transcript of a speech in 1990 that JPII gave on animals having souls.

any other info that people may have on the subject would help too.

is there any scripture that i could use that advances this belief?

thanks.
 
From above site:
“However”, concludes theologian Carlo Molari, “it must be restated that there remains a distinction between the soul of an animal and that of man. According to Scripture the animal is destined to perish. It is mortal by definition, unlike man who continues his existence beyond earthly life. So far as we understand now there is no possibility that we will find other creatures in the Hereafter. However, it’s one thing to expound according to the theology and philosophy we have studied and quite another for us to comprehend Divine reality–both future and distant–which remains mysterious and difficult to grasp within our limited capabilities.”
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So, animal soul and human soul are different. However, whether we will meet animals in heaven, “remains mysterious and difficult to grasp within our limited capabilities”.
 
Humans are material-spiritual beings; we have mortal, material bodies and immortal, rational souls. If you lack a soul, you’re not a human but an animal; if you lack a body, you’re not a human but a spirit. Our souls are immortal and rational because we are created to live with God forever (immortality) and know and love God (rationality).

Science classifies humans are animals, because we are like animals, especially mammals, and, in particular, primates. But science cannot make a judgment on our souls, since science can only judge what it can test. Souls are immaterial, therefore they cannot be tested by science.

Animals do not have souls, for three reasons: Souls are immortal, animals are created for man’s sake, and Jesus did not come to redeem animals but man. If animals had souls, they would live after death, be created for God, and be redeemed by Jesus. Nor do animals receive the Eucharist, the Sacrament of Redemption, which is the very life of the soul: if the Lord commanded them to receive it, it would be evidence they have souls. But since the Lord has not commanded animals to be fed the Body and Blood of Jesus, it is evidence animals do not have souls.
 
maize said:
so you are saying john paul II lied when he said they did?
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Unless he was speaking infallibly, he was only speaking as a theologian. Theologians, as you know, can be wrong. Like when St. Thomas Aquinas taught that Mary was not immaculately conceived. The Immaculate Conception is a dogma. So theologians can be wrong. Now, if you can prove that the Pope was speaking infallibly about animals having souls, than I would joyfully submit to the truth as proclaimed by Christ through His Vicar.
 
Eucharisted said:
Unless he was speaking infallibly, he was only speaking as a theologian. Theologians, as you know, can be wrong. Like when St. Thomas Aquinas taught that Mary was not immaculately conceived. The Immaculate Conception is a dogma. So theologians can be wrong. Now, if you can prove that the Pope was speaking infallibly about animals having souls, than I would joyfully submit to the truth as proclaimed by Christ through His Vicar.
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Can you prove that you are speaking infallibly?
 
That’s a strange question. Only the Pope can speak infallibly when he declares it so.
 
All living things (animals, plants and humans) have souls but only humans have immortal spiritual souls. When a plant or animal dies their souls also die.
 
SedesDomi said:
So, when the Pope said that animals have souls (as defined above by Carlo Molari), the Pope was incorrect?
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What “thistle” said.

Additionally, some Popes have embraced the concept of Limbo while other Ppoes have rejected it. No Pope, to date, has made an infallible ruling on it. Unless a Pope officially declares something to be infallible, he COULD be incorrect on it. That’s why very few things have actually been declared as infallible statements made by Popes.
 
Eucharisted said:
Unless he was speaking infallibly, he was only speaking as a theologian. Theologians, as you know, can be wrong.
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However in this instance, he was not wrong. It has always been the teaching of the Church that animals have souls, albeit material and therefore mortal ones which perish upon bodily death.
 
thistle said:
All living things (animals, plants and humans) have souls but only humans have immortal spiritual souls. When a plant or animal dies their souls also die.
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I’m glad you agree that the Pope was correct.
 
SedesDomi said:
I’m glad you agree that the Pope was correct.
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I’m unsure why anyone is arguing about this. I thought everyone understood every living thing had a soul. The difference is what type of souls of animals and plants vis-a-vis humans.
 
You should considering reading Peter Kreeft’s book, “everything you ever wanted to know about heaven.” Apperantly the idea for the book came after his daughter asked him if her cat will go to heaven and if so, will there be cat food there. 🙂

I believe he addresses the question of animals going to heaven.
 
It seems on many of these threads people are more concerned about seeing their animal in heaven than seeing another human being there. I don’t get it.
 
maize said:
any other info that people may have on the subject would help too.

is there any scripture that i could use that advances this belief?
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AnotherFriend33:
According to the Book of Genesis God created Animals, and there is no reference there indicating that God had any problems with animals.

However it is clear that shortly after God created Adam and Eve all problems started. The Big Flood, Heaven, and Hell, are issues exclusively related to the Human Species.

Nowhere in the Bible indicates that animals committed the Original Sin, therefore they should be (please correct me if I am wrong) in Perfect Communion with God.

Whatever the deal with God is for animals, it must be a better one than ours because we have disappointed him too many times, and they have not.
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Maybe Animals do not have a Soul, but even if that would be the case, it does not mean anything bad for them. If Animals would have spiritual issues that needed to be addressed, for sure there would be plenty of references on the Sacred Scriptures guiding us about how to deal with that. Lack of documentation shows there is nothing to be worried about them.
 
buffalo said:
It seems on many of these threads people are more concerned about seeing their animal in heaven than seeing another human being there. I don’t get it.
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My best guess is that people feel worried about what happens with their pets when they die, perhaps they have children, and the kids ask that sort of questions when it happens.

Sometimes Veterinarians advise people to administer euthanasia to an ill fated pet, and for some there may be moral concerns before taking that decision. I imagine those are the roots from that sort of thread.

I don’t see a problem with that, they want answers, and the CAF is here to provide answers that will not lead them away from the Roman Catholic Church, even if the topic may sound silly for some.
 
thistle said:
I’m unsure why anyone is arguing about this. I thought everyone understood every living thing had a soul. The difference is what type of souls of animals and plants vis-a-vis humans.
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I have known for some time that animals have souls. However, I did not know until just now that plants have souls as well. :o
 
Here’s some food for thought (no pun intended),haha

"Genesis 1:26

26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
 
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