Animals & souls

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Eucharisted said:
Unless he was speaking infallibly, he was only speaking as a theologian. Theologians, as you know, can be wrong. Like when St. Thomas Aquinas taught that Mary was not immaculately conceived. The Immaculate Conception is a dogma. So theologians can be wrong. Now, if you can prove that the Pope was speaking infallibly about animals having souls, than I would joyfully submit to the truth as proclaimed by Christ through His Vicar.
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It’s not a matter of infallibility, it’s a matter of leaving out one word “Immortal” in front of the word soul.

“Animals do not have immortal souls…” like humans.
 
Yeah i eat animals, and i will kill a cockroach. does this mean i am destroying souls? Seems stupid.
 
spankyg said:
Yeah i eat animals, and i will kill a cockroach. does this mean i am destroying souls? Seems stupid.
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Not only that is stupid, it is the kind of falsehoods that are thought by New Age-like religions. They would not eat meet, or kill insects because they believe they will reincarnate on them 😃 .
 
spankyg said:
Yeah i eat animals, and i will kill a cockroach. does this mean i am destroying souls? Seems stupid.
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Yes. The soul is the animating principle of life. Every living thing has a soul. The distinction to be made as earlier posts pointed out is the mortal soul and the immortal soul.

When you kill a plant or an insect you indeed snuff out their animating principle. When a human is killed their immortal soul lives on. The dignity and image of Himself that God gave to humans in the form of an immortal soul is to be respected and of the highest value.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
It’s not a matter of infallibility, it’s a matter of leaving out one word “Immortal” in front of the word soul.

“Animals do not have immortal souls…” like humans.
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In order for me to believe this, I would have to see that it was a teaching of Jesus, or at least, of an apostle.🙂

So, what evidence is there for this belief that animals do not have an immortal soul?

We know they are not created in the “image” of God. That means that God’s image is like that of a human. However, that doesn’t say anything about the soul of an animal.

Ie: Jesus, is God, but also was a human. He didn’t come to earth as an elephant, therefore, God made man in his image. Not in another creatures image.

Thanks
 
Genesis chapter 1:26

And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness; and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth.

We are in the image or likeness of God. (I would guess, in the image of Jesus, sinse we are not made in the image of the Father or the Holy Spirit).

Anyways, this says nothing about the souls of animals. Actually, just as God has dominion over us, that doesn’t diminish our souls, so to, just because we have dominion over animals, that doesn’t diminish their souls either.

So anyways, teaching from Jesus or the apostles that shows that in fact, animals do not have immortal souls.
 
Lisa44 said:
In order for me to believe this, I would have to see that it was a teaching of Jesus, or at least, of an apostle.🙂

So, what evidence is there for this belief that animals do not have an immortal soul?

We know they are not created in the “image” of God. That means that God’s image is like that of a human. However, that doesn’t say anything about the soul of an animal.

Ie: Jesus, is God, but also was a human. He didn’t come to earth as an elephant, therefore, God made man in his image. Not in another creatures image.

Thanks
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Respect for the integrity of creation
[2415](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/2415.htm’)😉 The seventh commandment enjoins respect for the integrity of creation. Animals, like plants and inanimate beings, are by nature destined for the common good of past, present, and future humanity.195 Use of the mineral, vegetable, and animal resources of the universe cannot be divorced from respect for moral imperatives. Man’s dominion over inanimate and other living beings granted by the Creator is not absolute; it is limited by concern for the quality of life of his neighbor, including generations to come; it requires a religious respect for the integrity of creation.196
[2416](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/2416.htm’)😉 *Animals *are God’s creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory.197 Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals.
[2417](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/2417.htm’)😉 God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image.198 Hence it is legitimate to use animals for food and clothing. They may be domesticated to help man in his work and leisure. Medical and scientific experimentation on animals is a morally acceptable practice if it remains within reasonable limits and contributes to caring for or saving human lives.
[2418](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/2418.htm’)😉 It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons.

195 Cf. Gen 128-31.
196 Cf. CA 37-38.
197 Cf. Mt 6:26; Dan 3:79-81.
198 Cf. Gen 2:19-20; 9:1-4.

Now you can see here that God did not create animals in His own image.
 
buffalo said:
Respect for the integrity of creation
[2415](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/2415.htm’)😉 The seventh commandment enjoins respect for the integrity of creation. Animals, like plants and inanimate beings, are by nature destined for the common good of past, present, and future humanity.195 Use of the mineral, vegetable, and animal resources of the universe cannot be divorced from respect for moral imperatives. Man’s dominion over inanimate and other living beings granted by the Creator is not absolute; it is limited by concern for the quality of life of his neighbor, including generations to come; it requires a religious respect for the integrity of creation.196
[2416](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/2416.htm’)😉 *Animals *are God’s creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory.197 Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals.
[2417](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/2417.htm’)😉 God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image.198 Hence it is legitimate to use animals for food and clothing. They may be domesticated to help man in his work and leisure. Medical and scientific experimentation on animals is a morally acceptable practice if it remains within reasonable limits and contributes to caring for or saving human lives.
[2418](javascript:openWindow(‘cr/2418.htm’)😉 It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons.

195 Cf. Gen 128-31.
196 Cf. CA 37-38.
197 Cf. Mt 6:26; Dan 3:79-81.
198 Cf. Gen 2:19-20; 9:1-4.

Now you can see here that God did not create animals in His own image.
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Hi Buffalo:)
Hmm, thats funny, I never said God created animals in his image…😃

Thanks for all the quotes, I do appreciate that.

My question was, where does it say that animals do not have immortal souls?

None of those bible passages states that animals do not possess an immortal soul.
 
Lisa44 said:
We are in the image or likeness of God. (I would guess, in the image of Jesus, sinse we are not made in the image of the Father or the Holy Spirit).
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Although reference to being made in God’s image chiefly refers to the soul having a spiritual likeness to God, we can say that since all things point to Christ even our physical bodies are in the image of the physical transcendent physical risen Body of Christ.
It would be wrong however to say that we are not made in the image of the Father or the Holy Spirit. In fact, even the family unit itself is an imperfect model of the Blessed Trinity.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
Yes, technically you are. There is no offense to God if done so out of necessity.
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Killing cockroaches sounds to me like a necessity, I can’t really stand them. 😃

By the way, insects are more like a punishment from God. Insects are biologically very different from animals, I imagine they do not really count as “animals” on the Biblical sense. Please correct me if I am wrong.
 
i guess thats why the tutsi were referred to as cockroaches, to make them not human and easy to kill with no thought.
 
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