Anime Thread #2

[Kamaduck]

Tolkien’s Arda IS actually supposed to be our Earth as it was in the distant, mythical past. And Middle-Earth was located roughly where Europe is now (although the lands did ch supposedly change).

It’s based in Europe, sure, just as the Avatar world is inspired by Asia. But we all know it’s fantasy, and that the map of the earth doesn’t really look like that. We know there were no elves or goblins or trolls. We can’t pin down Gondor and Rohan as specific European countries (at least, I don’t think we can- maybe they are, but I doubt it). It’s ultimately a fantasy world, but the people in it are white.

Oh, and I guess Savers in the new one. I think. Maybe.

Time to google this.

EDIT: nope, my bad. Xros Wars is the newest one, Savers is the fifth one.

 

[patrick457]

It’s based in Europe, sure, just as the Avatar world is inspired by Asia. But we all know it’s fantasy, and that the map of the earth doesn’t really look like that. We know there were no elves or goblins or trolls. We can’t pin down Gondor and Rohan as specific European countries (at least, I don’t think we can- maybe they are, but I doubt it). It’s ultimately a fantasy world, but the people in it are white.

Nevertheless I’ve seen people try. They’re both fantasy worlds, yes, but the difference is that one is designed to have a connection to the real world (not simply inspired by it) by being presented as a sort of (fictional) past myth-history. The world of Avatar, on the other doesn’t have that same connection AFAIK.

 

[Steph_L]

According to the creators, eye color in AtLA has to do with what your bending element is and not with your race. All characters are POC, and most people consider them fantasy equivalents of Asian and Inuit people.

It makes sense to me… Like, it’d be kind of silly to suggest that the characters in LOTR are nonwhite just because Middle Earth is not the same place as Europe. The characters are very clearly white, and the culture is European, despite the fact that Middle Earth does not exist.

Well I did not know that. xD

But as it is with most anime… nobody really minds or cares about the characters’ ethnicity very much (anime being notorious for people with naturally pink hair and red eyes or something like that)

 

[Kamaduck]

Nevertheless I’ve seen people try. They’re both fantasy worlds, yes, but the difference is that one is designed to have a connection to the real world (not simply inspired by it) by being presented as a sort of (fictional) past myth-history. The world of Avatar, on the other doesn’t have that same connection AFAIK.

Yeah, it is a bit different. However, that doesn’t seem like enough to say that the people of AtLA are not Asian. Their cultures are Asian, and in my mind, they look pretty obviously Asian, too.

 

[jilly4ski]

On the contrary, I wasn’t too bothered with ‘Ah-ng’ (instead of ‘Ae-ng’) or ‘Ee-roh’ (instead of ‘Eye-roh’), although the reference to the ‘Agni Ki duel’ (instead of ‘Agni Kai’) did irk me off.

And Digimon…Frontier was the last series I properly watched, so I’m not really up to speed. Just how many are there now?

I have no idea. I only watched the first one (and maybe part of the second one) when they first aired on Saturday morning cartoons.

I feel like the old one here.

Though Kamaduck, I think we like the same anime.

 

[Steph_L]

Yeah, it is a bit different. However, that doesn’t seem like enough to say that the people of AtLA are not Asian. Their cultures are Asian, and in my mind, they look pretty obviously Asian, too.

Well it’s a cartoon, so they could all be white people with dark hair; possibilities.

 

[Kamaduck]

Well I did not know that. xD

But as it is with most anime… nobody really minds or cares about the characters’ ethnicity very much (anime being notorious for people with naturally pink hair and red eyes or something like that)

Yeah, I guess. I do think there is a dearth of well-written nonwhite characters on TV and in fantasy especially, so I definitely think the movie should have at least not cast white people as Sokka and Katara, who are really obviously not white.

My favorite approach is to make about half the cast of a show really ambiguous- like in Teen Titans, where the characters are a gray-skinned half-demon girl, a greed-skinned guy with pointy ears, a sort-of-kind-of-white-ish alien girl, a black cyborg, and a white boy.

Also, it was a good show. Not anime, but a good cartoon nonetheless.

 

[patrick457]

Well I did not know that. xD

But as it is with most anime… nobody really minds or cares about the characters’ ethnicity very much (anime being notorious for people with naturally pink hair and red eyes or something like that)

Which does remind me of something. A lot of anime and manga are preferring more naturalistic artstyles, especially those geared toward late teens and young adults. So the large eyes, the spiky hairdos and the outlandish hair colors aren’t as omnipresent as they used to be.

(Of course you can still find them in works that target either a younger demographic - since kids value a character’s recognizability and ‘flashiness’ more than a realistic approach - or an older one - who ｍay prefer the weirdly-colored hair, etc. out of nostalgia.)

 

[Kamaduck]

Though Kamaduck, I think we like the same anime.

You must have excellent taste.

Also yeah, patrick, I have noticed that- a lot of animes right now do not follow the standard style with huge eyes and insane hair. Many still do, but it’s nowhere near 100%.

 

[patrick457]

Yeah, I guess. I do think there is a dearth of well-written nonwhite characters on TV and in fantasy especially, so I definitely think the movie should have at least not cast white people as Sokka and Katara, who are really obviously not white.

My favorite approach is to make about half the cast of a show really ambiguous- like in Teen Titans, where the characters are a gray-skinned half-demon girl, a greed-skinned guy with pointy ears, a sort-of-kind-of-white-ish alien girl, a black cyborg, and a white boy.

Also, it was a good show. Not anime, but a good cartoon nonetheless.

One of Hollywood’s sins IMHO is that except for a few cases, non-white actors are almost always merely relegated to sidekick or villain roles. That, and the fact that they can’t distinguish between China, Japan and Korea. But then again Jesus has been usually portrayed by white actors in spite of being a Jew, so…

 

[Steph_L]

Yeah, I guess. I do think there is a dearth of well-written nonwhite characters on TV and in fantasy especially, so I definitely think the movie should have at least not cast white people as Sokka and Katara, who are really obviously not white.

My favorite approach is to make about half the cast of a show really ambiguous- like in Teen Titans, where the characters are a gray-skinned half-demon girl, a greed-skinned guy with pointy ears, a sort-of-kind-of-white-ish alien girl, a black cyborg, and a white boy.

Also, it was a good show. Not anime, but a good cartoon nonetheless.

Well, I guess… though I’ve never watched the movie, so I can’t say anything about it.
I don’t remember the teen titans much story-wise, but the characters are still pretty fresh in my head.

Which does remind me of something. A lot of anime and manga are preferring more naturalistic artstyles, especially those geared toward late teens and young adults. So the large eyes, the spiky hairdos and the outlandish hair colors aren’t as omnipresent as they used to be.

(Of course you can still find them in works that target either a younger demographic - since kids value a character’s recognizability and ‘flashiness’ more than a realistic approach - or an older one - who ｍay prefer the weirdly-colored hair, etc. out of nostalgia.)

I haven’t been watching a lot of anime lately, but I do seem to be noticing that trend (I’ve seen some pictures of Shingeki no Kyojin and the characters aren’t outrageous-looking at all), and I remember watching part of Blue Exorcist, which also had reasonable character design.

 

[Kamaduck]

Well, I guess… though I’ve never watched the movie, so I can’t say anything about it.

You are not missing anything.

Seriously… They even skip over giant Koi fish Aang at the end in favor of a massive wave. And the acting is terrible. And the Earthbenders in the middle just give up on fighting their Fire nation captors for no reason, even though they are surrounded by tons of earth, until a twelve-year-old boy comes to give them a pep talk. It’s all very silly, and it gets boring pretty frequently. The only character I could take seriously was Iroh… And in the source material, you’re nit supposed to take him seriously until the end of book one.

 

[patrick457]

You must have excellent taste.

Also yeah, patrick, I have noticed that- a lot of animes right now do not follow the standard style with huge eyes and insane hair. Many still do, but it’s nowhere near 100%.

I never thought the stuff I learned at art school would come in useful.

You’d notice that many anime which do not follow the ‘standard’ (there isn’t actually one) and have naturalistic character designs tend to be late-night anime like K-On (which was one forerunner of the trend) or Haganai or Hyouka or Attack on Titan (Shingeki no Kyojin) or Hanasaku Iroha or Love, Chunibyo & Other Delusions or even Bakemonogatari, which target mainly late teen-young adult males. Compare that with say, Yu-gi-oh! (younger shonen), Uta no Prince-sama (female), or Pretty Cure (young girls and older men).

 

[patrick457]

You are not missing anything.

Seriously… They even skip over giant Koi fish Aang at the end in favor of a massive wave. And the acting is terrible. And the Earthbenders in the middle just give up on fighting their Fire nation captors for no reason, even though they are surrounded by tons of earth, until a twelve-year-old boy comes to give them a pep talk. It’s all very silly, and it gets boring pretty frequently. The only character I could take seriously was Iroh… And in the source material, you’re nit supposed to take him seriously until the end of book one.

It took a small group of Earthbenders to lift up a small rock using their bending, which, you know, someone could have just picked up - thereby saving manpower.

 

[CesarAugustus]

Naturalistic, but still with non realistic traits.

Some recent series have more realist styles, though.

 

[Kamaduck]

Naturalistic, but still with non realistic traits.

Some recent series have more realist styles, though.

I think the giant saucer eyes that people associate with anime are mostly relegated to shojo anyway. Shows for younger kids are more stylized, while the more mature animes often use a more realistic or just less cutesy style.

That said, there are still a lot of crazy-looking characters out there.

 

[Steph_L]

Has anybody watched Ghibli’s Porco Rosso? I thought it was a really fun movie, and the Disney dub was great.

 

[Kamaduck]

Has anybody watched Ghibli’s Porco Rosso? I thought it was a really fun movie, and the Disney dub was great.

Oh yeah, that’s a really fun one!

 

[Steph_L]

Oh yeah, that’s a really fun one!

I watched it 3 times in one week (because I borrowed it from the library and I wanna watch it as many times as I can before returning it, lol). Doesn’t get old fast.

I like how it balances the fact that women can be engineers but without making Porco (who doesn’t want women fixing his plane) look sexist.

 

[patrick457]

I think the giant saucer eyes that people associate with anime are mostly relegated to shojo anyway. Shows for younger kids are more stylized, while the more mature animes often use a more realistic or just less cutesy style.

That said, there are still a lot of crazy-looking characters out there.

To be honest I really hate it when people speak of the ‘standard’ anime-manga style (the humongous eyes and the weird hair colors) as if that’s the only thing there is. I’m of the opinion that each artist has their particular art style which you can’t really pigeonhole neatly. Besides even if there was a standard it was only something that came in vogue fairly recently, and was by no means universal.

Oh, and there’s also the issue of color. A common trend today is to use more duller, subdued colors or a paler, more translucent palette. Again, compare Haruhi - which was pretty vivid, bright and opaque - with some more recent works. (Again, shonen anime don’t count.)