Anime Thread #2

[Tenofovir]

Well, I have begun my trek through the Winter 2014 anime season. I missed the debut of Space Dandy on Toonami, so I’ll have to catch it on Funimation’s website at some point. I have watched Tonari no Seki-kun/Seki-kun, the Master of Killing Time. A good short. I also watched the first episode of the new Seitokai Yakuindomo, which has very very little fanservice for all of the dirty jokes. I don’t know if I’ll continue it, though. Nobunagun is fun, but then again, why wouldn’t a show about a teenage girl firing her right arm automatic cannon at aliens while a legendary Japanese general cackles in her eyes be awesome? The ED is also awesome. Very metal.

Up next are Noragami; that show about the pilot and the girl; the Space Dandy; the new Chunibyo; D-Frag; No-Rin; Inari, Konkon, Koi Iroha; Houzuki no Reitetsu; Strange+; Witch Craft Works; Magical Warfare; the new Wooser; Engaged to the Unidentified; and Hamatora.

What’s there to not to miss… there is Sakura Trick which is a “lesbian” anime. There is FREE which is a homoerotic anime and there is Buddy Complex which is something like Free but more subtle I guess… haha. There is also Pupa which is an incest, underage, gore anime. I will be skipping…

What I like in this season : (2014 is a bit of a disappointment)

Chu2 (YES, YES, more Rik(k)a!)
Mahou Sensou (poster girl looks tsundere)
D-Frag (dunno)
Toaru something or other…I thought it’d be another Last Exile from the description but it’s not, still the first episode was very sweet. Let’s hope they don’t kill any of the characters off.
Another season of PreCure!!!

Now I like the character designs of Precure, the problem is I have not been able to watch more than 10 min of an episode. Another great series is Milky Holmes. I wish I could watch that. Again the designs are super moe and I’d love to see the gang play hardball but in a GITS/PsychoPass type scenario - although with less violence but what they do at present is just not watchable.

There is also an idolm@ster clone. Another one.

And I am very happy to say that there will be another season of SYMPHOGEAR. Yes!
Maybe we’ll see it in the second half of 2014 or maybe in 2015 but it is coming.

This show fits in with, the magical girl/mecha cross over shows of recent times:

Rinne Lagrange
Valvrave
Symphogear

Some of these do have a bit of fanservice, but the struggle and self sacrifice in those shows is immense, for great justice. (and AFAIK nobody dies… of the heroines at least… which is good.)

BTW anyone see the in game video for the recent Madoka Game?

 

[Tenofovir]

The guarantee with Bones is that the anime will at least look amazing. The story might leave something to be desired, but the animation won’t.

I’m still thinking about Tsundere characters. I’ll get back to you guys on that, but your responses were very interesting, Tenofovir.

Guys, if Tenofovir is too long to write, you can shorten it to TDF.

 

[Kamaduck]

Well, I have begun my trek through the Winter 2014 anime season. I missed the debut of Space Dandy on Toonami, so I’ll have to catch it on Funimation’s website at some point. I have watched Tonari no Seki-kun/Seki-kun, the Master of Killing Time. A good short. I also watched the first episode of the new Seitokai Yakuindomo, which has very very little fanservice for all of the dirty jokes. I don’t know if I’ll continue it, though. Nobunagun is fun, but then again, why wouldn’t a show about a teenage girl firing her right arm automatic cannon at aliens while a legendary Japanese general cackles in her eyes be awesome? The ED is also awesome. Very metal.

Think I may have found my second show for this season. Sounds like it’s worth a try, anyway, with a description like that.

Like the kawaii (cute) act of many Japanese women?

That’s one part of it. But the tsundere has to be a good person inside and perhaps responding either with a facade or genuinely responding in a nasty way because that’s the only way she knows. I think the attraction is on many levels but one here is that yes there is this rough diamond who especially because of something nasty happening in the past (e.g. Victorique) is acting this way. But it’s an act or it’s an involuntary response to the love interest. It can be overcome. The more damaged the character, the more one wants her to get better. It’s not as if she’s just a capricious cow… but she can’t helping being so, or we understand why she puts up the act. (The act either being voluntary or involuntary on a subconscious level.)

I guess. I can at least understand the appeal of bringing out the best in someone. Not really sure how I feel about the idea that the tsundere can’t help but be mean. I know people get to that point in real life sometimes, but in real life we don’t perceive “fake” or “defensive” meanness as any different from “real” meanness. Real people don’t stop and blush profusely if they have a soft center. Of course, real people are also more complex than that.

Pre-Shana ones like Naru Narusegawa? Or Ryoko from Tenchi Muyo?

Of course the short, child like tsundere is also endearing, just for being that. One can justify a child acting like a brat and one can empathise with such anime characters.

Maybe I’m being presumptuous, but I would think the anger of a childlike character would be both easier to excuse and non-threatening. She shouldn’t have the ability to seriously injure anybody, in our minds (this being anime, who knows if she really does). Because of that, her anger would come off as cute rather than scary.

It’s an illusion, though. She isn’t a child, and I’m not sure what it says she has to appear to be something that she isn’t for us to justify her behavior.

Some people may find response to a weakness as pity, I don’t.

This comment is interesting. Sounds like you’re saying pretty much the same thing about determination in the face of weakness being admirable.

I’m still thinking about the difference between male characters I find attractive/appealing and male characters I empathize with. I made a graph, and most that were one were various degrees of the other (although there were way more “want to be” characters than “want to be with” characters). I wonder if that’s normal.

 

[CesarAugustus]

We can go onto other topics. For behold, this is a thread for all anime-related things, and we have free reign within it! Bwahahaha!

Yes! But better to stick to Tsunderes and fandom ideas about what is attractive.

The idealization of flaws is a part of it, but only certain types of flaws. And it’s not entirely because of flaws, as I said before. It’s just… We like characters that feel human. I, personally, like characters that I can identify with, and that’s just as often due to negative characteristics as positive ones.

Relatable characters, I have seen that word repeated lots of time recently. It also depends of who is the viewer. I guess some parts of the fandom share similar life situations. That could speak about who are we, our personality, experiences, and such… maybe.

The last time I had a conversation with an IRL friend that consisted mostly of gushing about a male anime character, the consensus was that Tamaki Suoh from Ouran was the “ideal man” because he was a lovable idiot who nevertheless cared deeply about his friends and love interest. We weren’t really serious, but I think there’s a certain amount to be said for liking flawed characters who struggle to overcome their flaws. He’s an idiot who needs to be taken care of to an extent- it’s not that he’s helpless, but he certainly doesn’t always know what to do. And neither do we, but we like the idea of working together to figure it out.

Rescue of the loved one and mutual rescue. Growing both towards a goal.

Applying the idea to a more “bad boy” character- say Prince Zuko (I know ATLA isn’t anime, but it’s the first thing that came to mind)- nobody likes him because he’s proud or rude or cruel. *They like him because he tries really hard to be good.Because he’s already failed once and is trying to get back up. Because his determination is admirable. And sometimes, paradoxically, because he can be really dorky and the opposite of cool. *Because his flaws and awkwardness make him human, instead of being a boring “perfect” guy.

Well, ATLA is “animesque”.

About the words in cursive:

Maybe there is certain appeal in wtaching rude or agressive characters displaying elements opposite to the perceived attitude? getting to know him better? Watching the display of a n internal struggle?

About the bolded words:

More on that after the next quote.

So in that sense, yeah, we definitely idealize flaws. Not always moral flaws, but that’s part of it. You know, it’s kind of funny, because on the Twilight thread they’re discussing whether women have a right to think about “perfect” men in the first place. But why would you want to read about a perfect person? You won’t be able to relate to them, nor they with you. You won’t be able to work together to solve problems, or grow stronger alongside them. You’ll always be dead weight, and I don’t think too many people like that idea.

I like traditional heroic characters. The struggle against a corrupt world, the almost quixotic causes, the reaction against decadence… is something that helps even in our own spirirtual road. And the battle, the militancy, is something present in our Faith, even wen in the recent 50 years lots of people have tried to minimize or eradicate references to the Good Fight. I was reading an article about the combat in the life of the Catholic and ended beatifully with this:

Well done, last of the Kings of Narnia, who stood firm at the darkest hour!

In this age, of flawed heros, awkward characters, etc, I find refreshing to read about some “boring” old style heros, one example, and a simple one. Star Saber from Transformers: Victory (a Japanese Transformers series). Said to be a typical Japanese kids anime hero. But, that makis him interesting. Also there is this description from TfWiki:

“Protector of the weak, defender of the defenceless and lover of life in all its forms.”

So much potential for a contemporary reinterpretation. I could see it him like a Quixotic figure.

But sadly, in a recent (and higly popular) Transformers comic series, he is depicted as a caricature of a religious zealot, engaged in wars and planning genocides… quite offensive, specially since he uses Catholic terminology.

The other characters, are depicted like the increasingly popular types; flawed, relatable and awkward characters. Even the writer included the first “official” yaoi pairing. And guess what, the true name of one of them is “Tumbler”. Quite subtle, ha.

As expected, the comic is wildly popular in Tumblr, and has a sizeable fanbase, both male and female.

Contemporary flawed characters are interesting too. But I think the traditional hero is not something that should be discarded.

I don’t doubt it, but that’s definitely not the only reason for liking “jerk” characters, or even villains. I guess I’m just saying that theories are fine (and good! And fun!), but this one doesn’t offer the entire picture.

That is part of the appeal. There are more things going on.

Haha, well, I wouldn’t say we’re participating in “high culture”. But it is culture, or at least a subculture, and it sure is fun to analyze!

Or just gush about. However we’re feeling that day.

Yes, very fun!

While not High Culture, I enjoy much things like anime, manga, comics, etc.

Blessings!

 

[CesarAugustus]

Well, I have begun my trek through the Winter 2014 anime season. I missed the debut of Space Dandy on Toonami, so I’ll have to catch it on Funimation’s website at some point. I have watched Tonari no Seki-kun/Seki-kun, the Master of Killing Time. A good short. I also watched the first episode of the new Seitokai Yakuindomo, which has very very little fanservice for all of the dirty jokes. I don’t know if I’ll continue it, though. Nobunagun is fun, but then again, why wouldn’t a show about a teenage girl firing her right arm automatic cannon at aliens while a legendary Japanese general cackles in her eyes be awesome? The ED is also awesome. Very metal.

Up next are Noragami; that show about the pilot and the girl; the Space Dandy; the new Chunibyo; D-Frag; No-Rin; Inari, Konkon, Koi Iroha; Houzuki no Reitetsu; Strange+; Witch Craft Works; Magical Warfare; the new Wooser; Engaged to the Unidentified; and Hamatora.

This season seems very interesting.

About Seitokai Yakuindomo, I was watching recently the first episode of the first season. I decided to not continue it. Also, the opening has some indications of the content is going to have. I don’t know if the opening of the new season is the same.

Blessings!

 

[CesarAugustus]

Like the kawaii (cute) act of many Japanese women?

Yes. And in Japan, cuteness or kawaii is something big. They seem to be very much into neoteny.

That’s one part of it. But the tsundere has to be a good person inside and perhaps responding either with a facade or genuinely responding in a nasty way because that’s the only way she knows. I think the attraction is on many levels but one here is that yes there is this rough diamond who especially because of something nasty happening in the past (e.g. Victorique) is acting this way. But it’s an act or it’s an involuntary response to the love interest. It can be overcome. The more damaged the character, the more one wants her to get better. It’s not as if she’s just a capricious cow… but she can’t helping being so, or we understand why she puts up the act. (The act either being voluntary or involuntary on a subconscious level.)

Good points, I agree. If there wasn’t good inside, these characters wouldn’t be as rewarding and attractive.

Pre-Shana ones like Naru Narusegawa? Or Ryoko from Tenchi Muyo?

Of course the short, child like tsundere is also endearing, just for being that. One can justify a child acting like a brat and one can empathise with such anime characters.

Yes, like Naru (I don’t know about the other).

Interesting, I didn’t thought much the justifications for their behaviour based on their appearance.

What’s there to not to miss… there is Sakura Trick which is a “lesbian” anime. There is FREE which is a homoerotic anime and there is Buddy Complex which is something like Free but more subtle I guess… haha. There is also Pupa which is an incest, underage, gore anime. I will be skipping…

Free wasn’t from last year’s Summer season?

What I like in this season : (2014 is a bit of a disappointment)

Chu2 (YES, YES, more Rik(k)a!)
Mahou Sensou (poster girl looks tsundere)
D-Frag (dunno)
Toaru something or other…I thought it’d be another Last Exile from the description but it’s not, still the first episode was very sweet. Let’s hope they don’t kill any of the characters off.
Another season of PreCure!!!

Other shows that seem interesting for me, are:

Tonari no Seki-kun
Hamatora
Mikakunin de Shinkoukei

Blessings!

 

[Kamaduck]

Yes! But better to stick to Tsunderes and fandom ideas about what is attractive.

Yeah, this is a fun conversation! But I’m just saying, it’s cool if the conversation happens to drift a little.

Relatable characters, I have seen that word repeated lots of time recently. It also depends of who is the viewer. I guess some parts of the fandom share similar life situations. That could speak about who are we, our personality, experiences, and such… maybe.

That’s a big part of it, yeah. I think we want to see our own struggles mirrored our fiction. I know I like to see people overcome great adversity and get a mostly-happy ending, because it makes me feel like I can do that, too.

It might also be good to remember that girls usually don’t have as much trouble empathizing with male characters as guys do with female characters. There are a lot of male characters doing interesting stuff, and most of the girls I know- particularly those who like science fiction and fantasy- are used to identifying with male characters in media just as much as (or even more than) female characters. So, it’s probably pretty easy for some of us to relate to a well-written character’s struggles, and then also end up liking him. Maybe. I think that happens to me pretty frequently.

Rescue of the loved one and mutual rescue. Growing both towards a goal.

Yeah, I think that’s a part of it.

Well, ATLA is “animesque”.

About the words in cursive:

Maybe there is certain appeal in wtaching rude or agressive characters displaying elements opposite to the perceived attitude? getting to know him better? Watching the display of a n internal struggle?

There’s definitely an appeal in getting to know them better and seeing them get stronger- both of their own power and due to the influence of others. I’m not sure about aggressiveness, IDK if that’s something that really appeals to me. Rudeness, maybe… I tend to appreciate sarcasm more than I should, regardless of who it comes from.

I like traditional heroic characters. The struggle against a corrupt world, the almost quixotic causes, the reaction against decadence… is something that helps even in our own spirirtual road. And the battle, the militancy, is something present in our Faith, even wen in the recent 50 years lots of people have tried to minimize or eradicate references to the Good Fight. I was reading an article about the combat in the life of the Catholic and ended beatifully with this:

Well done, last of the Kings of Narnia, who stood firm at the darkest hour!

In this age, of flawed heros, awkward characters, etc, I find refreshing to read about some “boring” old style heros, one example, and a simple one. Star Saber from Transformers: Victory (a Japanese Transformers series). Said to be a typical Japanese kids anime hero. But, that makis him interesting. Also there is this description from TfWiki:

“Protector of the weak, defender of the defenceless and lover of life in all its forms.”

So much potential for a contemporary reinterpretation. I could see it him like a Quixotic figure.

But sadly, in a recent (and higly popular) Transformers comic series, he is depicted as a caricature of a religious zealot, engaged in wars and planning genocides… quite offensive, specially since he uses Catholic terminology.

The other characters, are depicted like the increasingly popular types; flawed, relatable and awkward characters. Even the writer included the first “official” yaoi pairing. And guess what, the true name of one of them is “Tumbler”. Quite subtle, ha.

As expected, the comic is wildly popular in Tumblr, and has a sizeable fanbase, both male and female.

Contemporary flawed characters are interesting too. But I think the hero is not something that should be discarded.

You make some good points. I don’t exclusively like heavily flawed characters, and I think there’s something to be said for plain old virtue. But for me, I think that stories about heavily flawed characters can be really powerful when the flawed hero struggles to do good anyway. Because that character has even farther to go to become a hero than somebody else might. They have weaknesses that make it difficult for them to stay strong, or even difficult to remain good. But they do it anyway. It may not come naturally, but they keep going anyway. That fact is testament to the strength of their devotion to what is good.

I think that can be true of both someone like Zuko (“why am I so bad at being good?!”), as well as someone like Armin from Attack on Titan, vs. Eren from the same series. While Eren is a perfectly serviceable protagonist, he never has difficulty deciding that he’s going to keep fighting the titans. Armin’s more easily scared, and he wonders if he has the courage and strength to keep fighting. But he goes anyway, using his unique talents to support the others. In some ways, I think that’s more admirable than Eren, who never really questions what he’s going to do.

That said, I do love some stories with characters that are just plain heroes. Lord of the Rings, for instance. Everybody in the fellowship rules, and their unwavering commitment to saving the world, doing what’s right, and protecting their homelands and friends is worth a ton all by itself. I wouldn’t want to run out of stories like that.

That is part of the appeal. There are more things going on.

Yeah, this stuff is usually complex like that. People are complex!

Yes, very fun!

While not High Culture, I enjoy much things like anime, manga, comics, etc.

Blessings!

I wonder if it’s even possible for something new to be “high culture”? I’m not sure I even know what that means these days. :ehh:

 

[CesarAugustus]

Yeah, this is a fun conversation! But I’m just saying, it’s cool if the conversation happens to drift a little.

Yes, I agree.

That’s a big part of it, yeah. I think we want to see our own struggles mirrored our fiction. I know I like to see people overcome great adversity and get a mostly-happy ending, because it makes me feel like I can do that, too.

Good point. Certainly there is appeal on overcoming difficulties and having a good reward after that. It could aslo seen as another facet of spiritual struggles.

It might also be good to remember that girls usually don’t have as much trouble empathizing with male characters as guys do with female characters. There are a lot of male characters doing interesting stuff, and most of the girls I know- particularly those who like science fiction and fantasy- are used to identifying with male characters in media just as much as (or even more than) female characters. So, it’s probably pretty easy for some of us to relate to a well-written character’s struggles, and then also end up liking him. Maybe. I think that happens to me pretty frequently.

Yes, that is something I have seen reading blogs and forums.

You make some good points. I don’t exclusively like heavily flawed characters, and I think there’s something to be said for plain old virtue. But for me, I think that stories about heavily flawed characters can be really powerful when the flawed hero struggles to do good anyway. Because that character has even farther to go to become a hero than somebody else might. They have weaknesses that make it difficult for them to stay strong, or even difficult to remain good. But they do it anyway. It may not come naturally, but they keep going anyway. That fact is testament to the strength of their devotion to what is good.

I think that can be true of both someone like Zuko (“why am I so bad at being good?!”), as well as someone like Armin from Attack on Titan, vs. Eren from the same series. While Eren is a perfectly serviceable protagonist, he never has difficulty deciding that he’s going to keep fighting the titans. Armin’s more easily scared, and he wonders if he has the courage and strength to keep fighting. But he goes anyway, using his unique talents to support the others. In some ways, I think that’s more admirable than Eren, who never really questions what he’s going to do.

That said, I do love some stories with characters that are just plain heroes. Lord of the Rings, for instance. Everybody in the fellowship rules, and their unwavering commitment to saving the world, doing what’s right, and protecting their homelands and friends is worth a ton all by itself. I wouldn’t want to run out of stories like that.

Good points. Is interesting to see a character grow despite difficulties.

If there wasn’t any improvement, and just brooding and going nowhere, well, that would be a problem.

Yeah, this stuff is usually complex like that. People are complex!

I wonder if it’s even possible for something new to be “high culture”? I’m not sure I even know what that means these days. :ehh:

If high quality, yes.

That reminds me of something about painting. I think a high point was reached in western painting with Academic Painting. After that, there was an somewhat slow process of decandece in the last years of the XIX century, and went to full speed in the XX century, giving us such “art” as action painting, performances, etc.

Sadly, in various places, *Avant Garde * artist despise figurative painting, and have almost monopolized the Fine Arts with their low quality products. There is certain attitudes in some Universities that see figurative art as low-brow, or linked with commercial prodcuts. I rather have some art by commercial illustrators than some of the scribbles and absurd works of some art galleries’s artists.

 

[Tenofovir]

Yes. And in Japan, cuteness or kawaii is something big. They seem to be very much into neoteny.

In terms of behaviour or looks? Of course Japanese also look more diminutive to Westerners and maybe to each other too.

Yes, like Naru (I don’t know about the other).

They’re both tsunderes. Especially in the original TM series from 1990s. They however take out much of their anger on each other.

Interesting, I didn’t thought much the justifications for their behaviour based on their appearance.

You need to see Gosick and Dantalian no Shoka then. http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh145/nindynindy/newproject/onion LOL/12024354961.gif

Free wasn’t from last year’s Summer season?

I’ve seen it pop up again in one of these Anime season 2014 collages. It may be an OAV. It was way on the right.

The Barrister anime thing also looks promising. I’ve also seen, if I remember correctly, an Ilya OAV coming out soon. Also saw it next to Free! on the right in one of these poster things. I could swear I was not hallucinating or drunk at the time.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Tenofovir]

I’m still thinking about the difference between male characters I find attractive/appealing and male characters I empathize with. I made a graph, and most that were one were various degrees of the other (although there were way more “want to be” characters than “want to be with” characters). I wonder if that’s normal.

LOL. It’s normal, don’t worry.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

A character I’d like to be, is the lead guy from “Yahari Ore no Seishun Rabu Kome wa Machigatteiru” thing. He is a nice guy but he just can’t be bothered.

 

[Kamaduck]

Yes, I agree.

Good point. Certainly there is appeal on overcoming difficulties and having a good reward after that. It could aslo seen as another facet of spiritual struggles.

Yes, that is something I have seen reading blogs and forums.

Good points. Is interesting to see a character grow despite difficulties.

If there wasn’t any improvement, and just brooding and going nowhere, well, that would be a problem.

Yeah! And it would be boring, too. Characters that never improve are even more frustrating than characters with no weaknesses or setbacks. I want to see them win, even if I don’t want it to be easy for them.

If high quality, yes.

That reminds me of something about painting. I think a high point was reached in western painting with Academic Painting. After that, there was an somewhat slow process of decandece in the last years of the XIX century, and went to full speed in the XX century, giving us such “art” as action painting, performances, etc.

Sadly, in various places, *Avant Garde * artist despise figurative painting, and have almost monopolized the Fine Arts with their low quality products. There is certain attitudes in some Universities that see figurative art as low-brow, or linked with commercial prodcuts. I rather have some art by commercial illustrators than some of the scribbles and absurd works of some art galleries’s artists.

See, this is what I’m wondering. I know there are “classics” that are fairly universally regarded to be valuable because they have stood the test of time. But which modern stories will still speak to people in fifty or five hundred years is something we can guess at, but can’t be sure of. For that reason, it’s very difficult to come up with an “instant classic” unless it’s something that revitalizes or creates its own genre- I think it could be argued that LOTR (original books and the Peter Jackson movies, in different ways) is certainly “high-quality”, and its draw was strong enough to create (and later revitalize) a whole era of high fantasy. Works like Star Wars might not be as deep, but are certainly part of our cultural consciousness. And then you have stuff like Evangelion, which is hated by a lot of people, but which undeniably had a huge effect on anime as a whole and mecha anime in particular. But works like that are understandably few and far between- and even with those examples, we had to wait decades to say whether the trends they set were significant. Are there any stories from this decade that we could already say the same of? I doubt it.

There is some anime that really is deep and well-done. Most of it isn’t, and that’s true of any medium. I’m wondering whether the “high culture” works are a specific subset of things, or if they’re just the cream of the crop from every genre of fiction? If it was the best of the best from everywhere, then it would obviously be silly for people to claim that any one medium or genre represented “high culture”. I guess there’s what we consider “fine art”, but as you said, that’s gotten kind of weird lately.

I think the main divide these days is between the “nerdy” stuff- anime, comics, some video games, some speculative fiction- and “mainstream” stuff- most movies, television, some video games, etc. But that divide seems pretty artificial now that a lot of stuff that used to be “nerdy” is objectively popular. And with the rise of the internet, there’s then a ton of other divisions between things- the fan environment is going to be very, very different on tumblr vs. reddit vs. fandom-specific forums vs. our own little thread. None of them are perfect (some of them far from it!), but they all have different strengths.

And that’s a good thing! It’s good to see fresh thoughts coming in from different places. I think what bothers me most about any kind of fandom is elitism, thinking that one group is beyond reproach and that those outside are ignorant, while simultaneously decrying those who try to “infiltrate” the group. It’s just silly. They’re communities, and while some are better than others, they all have a lot to learn and can be used to make things even better.

I kind of got off track. I think when I was younger I was really worried about liking the “right” nerdy things, so I could be a Real Nerd™. But now, eh. I like what I like, I accept that some of it might objectively be silly or stupid, but if it’s fun to analyze and inspires me to keep going, then my time hasn’t been wasted. Regardless of whether my stories were remembered in a hundred years’ time, at least they had a positive effect on my friends and myself today.

 

[Kamaduck]

LOL. It’s normal, don’t worry.

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh145/nindynindy/newproject/onion LOL/12024354824.gif

A character I’d like to be, is the lead guy from “Yahari Ore no Seishun Rabu Kome wa Machigatteiru” thing. He is a nice guy but he just can’t be bothered.

Good. I worry about my mental state sometimes.

I tend to gravitate towards characters that really like studying and thinking and analyzing things. Same for girls, in terms of who I want to be. Maka Albarn and Edward Elric would be good examples- obsessed with learning more and more about their chosen disciplines, and comfortable both in a lab or library as well as on an adventure.

Add a spaceship and that’s pretty much my ideal life.

 

[Tenofovir]

Yeah! And it would be boring, too. Characters that never improve are even more frustrating than characters with no weaknesses or setbacks. I want to see them win, even if I don’t want it to be easy for them.

I’m of a mixed opinion. There should be some advance but not too much. The show will end too quickly. It’s good to have some advance to the rear type advance.

See, this is what I’m wondering. I know there are “classics” that are fairly universally regarded to be valuable because they have stood the test of time. But which modern stories will still speak to people in fifty or five hundred years is something we can guess at, but can’t be sure of. For that reason, it’s very difficult to come up with an “instant classic” unless it’s something that revitalizes or creates its own genre- I think it could be argued that LOTR (original books and the Peter Jackson movies, in different ways) is certainly “high-quality”, and its draw was strong enough to create (and later revitalize) a whole era of high fantasy. Works like Star Wars might not be as deep, but are certainly part of our cultural consciousness. And then you have stuff like Evangelion, which is hated by a lot of people, but which undeniably had a huge effect on anime as a whole and mecha anime in particular. But works like that are understandably few and far between- and even with those examples, we had to wait decades to say whether the trends they set were significant. Are there any stories from this decade that we could already say the same of? I doubt it.

I’ve found Kieslowski’s Decalog to be an instant classic. The film “Come and See” is also in that category. I don’t really see anything about Evangelion. I honestly don’t.

From the anime side Isao Takahata is the king. Grave of the Fireflies is the title which is the best work of anime ever, IMHO.

There is some anime that really is deep and well-done. Most of it isn’t, and that’s true of any medium. I’m wondering whether the “high culture” works are a specific subset of things, or if they’re just the cream of the crop from every genre of fiction? If it was the best of the best from everywhere, then it would obviously be silly for people to claim that any one medium or genre represented “high culture”. I guess there’s what we consider “fine art”, but as you said, that’s gotten kind of weird lately.

GOTF would, if done as a live action film, also be a work of art. It probably has been done however, but nowhere near as well. A few other live action Japanese films come to mind, one is EUREKA, and another is “NOBODY KNOWS”.

I think the main divide these days is between the “nerdy” stuff- anime, comics, some video games, some speculative fiction- and “mainstream” stuff- most movies, television, some video games, etc. But that divide seems pretty artificial now that a lot of stuff that used to be “nerdy” is objectively popular. And with the rise of the internet, there’s then a ton of other divisions between things- the fan environment is going to be very, very different on tumblr vs. reddit vs. fandom-specific forums vs. our own little thread. None of them are perfect (some of them far from it!), but they all have different strengths.

There is too much emphasis on mainstream out there. Mainstream unfortunately usually means Hollywood and the world also copies Hollywood. Now there are some wonderful works by Indie directors, but mainstream stuff for me is bland show business. It’s a craft. It’s well done but it follows a formula and while a director could be a genius in his own right, a director like Polanski still beats out someone like Spielberg. Spielberg is a great special effects and story telling guy, Polanski is able to deliver films which have we can relate to though or which show human nature better. From the US, I’d recommend people like Casavettes and Kubrick.

 

[Tenofovir]

good. I worry about my mental state sometimes.

i tend to gravitate towards characters that really like studying and thinking and analyzing things. Same for girls, in terms of who i want to be. Maka albarn and edward elric would be good examples- obsessed with learning more and more about their chosen disciplines, and comfortable both in a lab or library as well as on an adventure.

Add a spaceship and that’s pretty much my ideal life.

martian successor nadesico

 

[Kamaduck]

I’m of a mixed opinion. There should be some advance but not too much. The show will end too quickly. It’s good to have some advance to the rear type advance.

Yeah, character development should be a slow process. I always really like it when character development shows through in little, subtle moments. But I think it should be present, rather than having a character that never improves (as a general rule, anyway). Heavily flawed characters are at their best when they work to overcome their flaws.

I’ve found Kieslowski’s Decalog to be an instant classic. The film “Come and See” is also in that category. I don’t really see anything about Evangelion. I honestly don’t.

From the anime side Isao Takahata is the king. Grave of the Fireflies is the title which is the best work of anime ever, IMHO.

I’ve never heard of the first two things. Grave of the Fireflies is definitely high art, though. It might not have set a lot of trends, but it’s a very powerful piece in and of itself.

Evangelion is less a good work in its own right (I like it myself, but it spirals into nonsense at the end) as one that is important because it affected other works after it. I think we have it to thank (or blame) for a lot of the deconstructionism that happened in the 90’s and early 00’s. And, as mentioned upthread, you have other things going on like Asuka laying some of the groundwork for the modern tsundere archetype, and the emphasis on character psychology that led to some interesting things in other works. Because that’s what powerful stories do- they influence others and become part of the culture itself.

GOTF would, if done as a live action film, also be a work of art. It probably has been done however, but nowhere near as well. A few other live action Japanese films come to mind, one is EUREKA, and another is “NOBODY KNOWS”.

I’ll look into them. But I guess I’m saying, GOTF is definitely high art, no question. But not all anime is in that category, so I think Cesar is right about how nerds sound sometimes. “I’m not like those other people who watch live-action movies… I watch anime, which is clearly superior to other mediums.”

When a lot of anime is just fanservice-heavy properties with little story or characterization.

Anime is like books: when it’s good, it’s really good. When it’s bad, it’s really, really bad.

There is too much emphasis on mainstream out there. Mainstream unfortunately usually means Hollywood and the world also copies Hollywood. Now there are some wonderful works by Indie directors, but mainstream stuff for me is bland show business. It’s a craft. It’s well done but it follows a formula and while a director could be a genius in his own right, a director like Polanski still beats out someone like Spielberg. Spielberg is a great special effects and story telling guy, Polanski is able to deliver films which have we can relate to though or which show human nature better. From the US, I’d recommend people like Casavettes and Kubrick.

Haha. I’ve never really liked mainstream works, but while I used to pride myself on that, I now think it’s a bit silly to say that something is definitely good or bad because of the genre and medium. The source, maybe. I think Hollywood is pretty creatively sterile right now. I just don’t want to get elitist about liking nerdy things instead of more “normal” things, since there’s plenty to criticize among nerds, too.

I’ve seen some of Kubrick’s stuff, not sure about the others. It’s been quite some time since I saw anything that wasn’t fantasy or sci-fi.

martian successor nadesico

Googles

Ohh, this looks pretty fun! Yes, good. Spaceships. I like spaceships.

 

[Kamaduck]

My thoughts on Evangelion can pretty much be summed up as follows-

Watch Eva the first time: OH MY GOODNESS that was the greatest thing ever what have I been doing with my life jndksjnsrjlnvkf

Watch Eva the second time: WHAT IS THIS why show why are you sexualizing 14-year-olds? What are you doing? What is even happening? Shinji no what is wrong with you don’t do that, STAHP. Is that ending serious or is it a massive case of trolling? WHY DID I REWATCH THIS

Watch Eva every time after that: This series is heavily flawed, but ambitious. It devolves into nonsense at the end, the pacing is rushed in some places and too drawn-out in others, the entire cast needs therapy, and has meaningless Christian symbols strewn about for no reason. On the other hand, it’s certainly not following the crowd. While the story itself isn’t a masterpiece, it did inject some new thought into a somewhat stagnant genre, and for that, it deserves recognition. Plus, the mech fights are usually interesting.

That’s the general trend for how I see any given series over time, but it was really pronounced with Eva. I have a tendency to see all the good things about a show on the first watch, then only the bad things, and then finally arrive at a balanced view of the show later on.

It did get me into anime, though, so despite its massive flaws, I can’t really hate it.

 

[ironchapman]

This season seems very interesting.

About Seitokai Yakuindomo, I was watching recently the first episode of the first season. I decided to not continue it. Also, the opening has some indications of the content is going to have. I don’t know if the opening of the new season is the same.

Blessings!

SYD has a lot of dirty jokes, but the fanservice is minimal, by virtually any standard. If you can’t take a stream of dirty jokes and non sequiturs, it’s not for you.

 

[Tenofovir]

It’s sacrilege to have seen NGE and not have seen Martian Successor Nadesico. Go Gekingangar!!!1

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Blood_Angel]

why are you sexualizing 14-year-olds?

You could see that about many animes.

meaningless Christian symbols strewn about for no reason.

I heard something about the creators of NGE thought that Christianity was an exotic thing, you know, Japanese are very pagan people with Shinto being their countries mainly religion along with Buddhism, I imagine the Japanese people know very little about Christianity and they found interesting enough to use in their anime.

 

[Kamaduck]

It’s sacrilege to have seen NGE and not have seen Martian Successor Nadesico. Go Gekingangar!!!1

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh145/nindynindy/newproject/onion LOL/12028071781.gif

Lol, OK, thank you for telling me about it. I will watch it.

You could see that about many animes.

Yeah, but normally I notice it. And Evangelion wasn’t exactly subtle about it.

I heard something about the creators of NGE thought that Christianity was an exotic thing, you know, Japanese are very pagan people with Shinto being their countries mainly religion along with Buddhism, I imagine the Japanese people know very little about Christianity and they found interesting enough to use in their anime.

I understand that most Japanese are more like non-religious. Apparently they treat Christianity in much the same way that westerners treat Buddhism, Shinto, and Hindu beliefs. They take elements from it without understanding the significance of it, or what it really means.

That said, NGE’s biggest problem is that it just stops making any sense whatsoever in the last two or three episodes. It’s like the writers just gave up. It has a lot of other glaring problems, too (misuse of Christian symbols, animation that ends up nothing more than a series of still images), but the ending is what really seals its fate.