Anime Thread #2

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Except most series don’t get cancelled. The vast majority are completed. Often there is a second season and more.
Nevermind. I’m probably projecting my wrath at Cartoon Network onto a completely unrelated industry. (Grrrr, Cartoon Network)
Perhaps. But we’re dealing with a mature industry with hopefully innovative and creative, sensible, professional people. (Or maybe we’re not. I sometimes wonder. 🙂 )
Well, it’s worked so far. Maybe nobody feels the need to change the fact that many anime adaptations are only partial adaptations. 🤷
Japanese audiences just like more of the same too. The same things repeat themselves. And the same series, for nostalgia sake, gets remakes. And probably money is a big reason too for much of this. Milking the same cash cow… 🙂
Oh and alternative universes and timelines…
But I can get the reason why “harem” ( I dislike this term ) type anime have no real “satisfying” endings. It leaves the way open for sequels - for $$$ - and of course it does not upset any fans. The true end partner is the viewer of course.
I think everybody likes going back to old successes- most of all the companies that get to take less risks that way. 😛

I don’t actually mind shows that don’t tie everything up at the end; sometimes it’s fine to believe that the adventure continues from there. But when a show just cuts off or pastes a rushed ending onto a series, I might get a bit upset.
 
It works because Japanese anime fans will watch anything as long as there is pantsu and other stuff. Or maybe there are other reasons. But it’s not an issue of a system getting by.

Sure. But in Japanese animation it’s far worse than in other forms of entertainment. It’s as if creativity has died in Japan. Or maybe that’s their philosophy.
I dunno. Anime seems pretty creative compared to what I’m seeing come out of other countries. I mean, I guess most of what every country produces isn’t worth watching, but anime doesn’t seem any more stagnant than any other medium. I wouldn’t be here if I wasn’t seeing anything new and interesting. -]And at least in Japan they don’t cancel brilliant shows after one season because too many girls are watching./-]

It’s not really any worse than what Disney does with dozens of direct-to-video sequels. Or the concept of sequels in general, actually. Spin-offs and reboots can be OK, but sequels have a tendency to be awful and exist in copious amounts.
 
I dunno. Anime seems pretty creative compared to what I’m seeing come out of other countries. I mean, I guess most of what every country produces isn’t worth watching, but anime doesn’t seem any more stagnant than any other medium. I wouldn’t be here if I wasn’t seeing anything new and interesting. -]And at least in Japan they don’t cancel brilliant shows after one season because too many girls are watching./-]
I watch a variety of programming. But nowhere else are things so predictable and behaviours so stereotypical. Yeah sometimes there is a twist or two. But for the most part, your typical manga/eroge/visual novel anime adaptation is the same thing. That’s not always a bad thing, if you enjoy seeing the same sort of conflict, eg tsundere hero interactions that’s a good thing because you get to see what you like over and over again with just a variety of different hairstyles, outfits, backdrops. But other countries and industries tend to be more nuanced and varied.
It’s not really any worse than what Disney does with dozens of direct-to-video sequels. Or the concept of sequels in general, actually. Spin-offs and reboots can be OK, but sequels have a tendency to be awful and exist in copious amounts.
Disney may do it, but all Japanese anime studios do it, or the majority do it. Maybe Production IG doesn’t.
 
I watch a variety of programming. But nowhere else are things so predictable and behaviours so stereotypical. Yeah sometimes there is a twist or two. But for the most part, your typical manga/eroge/visual novel anime adaptation is the same thing. That’s not always a bad thing, if you enjoy seeing the same sort of conflict, eg tsundere hero interactions that’s a good thing because you get to see what you like over and over again with just a variety of different hairstyles, outfits, backdrops. But other countries and industries tend to be more nuanced and varied.

Disney may do it, but all Japanese anime studios do it, or the majority do it. Maybe Production IG doesn’t.
I don’t know Tenofovir, this seems exactly like what the big four TV networks do. Every Sitcom is merely the same dilemma solved by different characters in different backdrops. Reality shows are merely the same drama played out with different game goals in different settings. Both sitcoms and reality shows have archetypal characters and similar comedy or drama. Cop shows are all alike, and many/most dramas (especially cop/lawyer/spy shows) follow similar plot structures, archetypes, and even similar backgrounds (always big city).

I find Anime is often more creative about the things it does change. Its settings and backgrounds are more creative then anything I have seen on TV, even most American animation, and it seems more willing to explore strange philosophies and character traits (You won’t find a Tohru Honda character in mainstream TV, nor would you find a Yuki Sohma for that matter (though you will find plenty of Kyos).

Some shows change something really drastically, but most just follow the mold.
 
I watch a variety of programming. But nowhere else are things so predictable and behaviours so stereotypical. Yeah sometimes there is a twist or two. But for the most part, your typical manga/eroge/visual novel anime adaptation is the same thing. That’s not always a bad thing, if you enjoy seeing the same sort of conflict, eg tsundere hero interactions that’s a good thing because you get to see what you like over and over again with just a variety of different hairstyles, outfits, backdrops. But other countries and industries tend to be more nuanced and varied.

Disney may do it, but all Japanese anime studios do it, or the majority do it. Maybe Production IG doesn’t.
What are these other industries you speak of? If there’s huge amounts of creative innovation going on somewhere else, I want in. There certainly hasn’t been much variety/quality in American animation in the last few years. Nothing that wasn’t cancelled after a season or two, anyway.
I don’t know Tenofovir, this seems exactly like what the big four TV networks do. Every Sitcom is merely the same dilemma solved by different characters in different backdrops. Reality shows are merely the same drama played out with different game goals in different settings. Both sitcoms and reality shows have archetypal characters and similar comedy or drama. Cop shows are all alike, and many/most dramas (especially cop/lawyer/spy shows) follow similar plot structures, archetypes, and even similar backgrounds (always big city).
I agree. There are minor differences, but it’s pretty standardized. You could maybe make a case for some speculative fiction, but apart from that it’s all pretty cut and dried on television. It’s even worse for movies (except those that are adaptations of books or comics, which are mediums that allow more creative freedom due to their low risk factor).
I find Anime is often more creative about the things it does change. Its settings and backgrounds are more creative then anything I have seen on TV, even most American animation, and it seems more willing to explore strange philosophies and character traits (You won’t find a Tohru Honda character in mainstream TV, nor would you find a Yuki Sohma for that matter (though you will find plenty of Kyos).
A lot of that is just that popular Japanese stories are different from popular American stories. Tohru is a pretty standard shojo romance heroine, if even more kind-hearted and optimistic than usual. Yuki perhaps less so, but he’s probably not unique.

On the other hand, in anime you get some new stuff. Attack on Titan isn’t like precisely like anything I’ve seen before. Durarara!! has gangs and supernatural phenomena, but calling it urban fantasy or a crime drama or just action or drama doesn’t tell you exactly what kind of story you’re getting. The same could be said for FMA- it’s fantasy and shonen, and it deals with war and loss and family and fixing one’s mistakes, but that doesn’t tell you the story and presentation the way “crime drama” captures NCIS or “medical drama” captures House. Kino’s Journey is just a girl traveling in a vaguely sf world on a motorcycle, getting caught up in philosophical questions along the way. Madoka Magica is obviously a magical girl story, but it subverts the genre and creates a story about sacrifice and courage in the face of certain doom, alongside the more normal themes of friendship and hope. This is why I watch anime. Sure, I could watch stuff that fit comfortably inside established genres, but there’s a lot of stuff that doesn’t, that leaves me unsure what to expect. There are new and inventive stories being told, and that’s exciting.
 
What are these other industries you speak of? If there’s huge amounts of creative innovation going on somewhere else, I want in. There certainly hasn’t been much variety/quality in American animation in the last few years. Nothing that wasn’t cancelled after a season or two, anyway.
You should check out non-Hollywood non-anime satirical animation. There are some wonderful things there, from the 30s right through now. There was probably more stuff before. Eastern European stuff is especially great: Polish, Russian, Czech, but Europe as a whole produces and has produced a great amount of thought provoking satirical animation.

Some examples: (you can look at YT for example)
Everything is a Number (1967)
Pictures at an Exhibition / The Old Castle (Mussorgsky) (1992)
Long Bridge in Desired Direction 2012? (trailer)
youtube.com/watch?v=j7ssN074hxc
The Stairs 1967

Of course more commercialised and recent work such as:
Triplets of Belleville
youtube.com/watch?v=Npro9kjyaJk
is also good.

Tamala Punk Cat in Space is Japanese. It has some swearing and violence in it but is pretty surreal. But it’s not traditional anime but an indie film. Kafka’s Diary of a Country Doctor is also a nice indie anime.
On the other hand, in anime you get some new stuff. Attack on Titan isn’t like precisely like anything I’ve seen before. Durarara!! has gangs and supernatural phenomena, but calling it urban fantasy or a crime drama or just action or drama doesn’t tell you exactly what kind of story you’re getting. The same could be said for FMA- it’s fantasy and shonen, and it deals with war and loss and family and fixing one’s mistakes, but that doesn’t tell you the story and presentation the way “crime drama” captures NCIS or “medical drama” captures House. Kino’s Journey is just a girl traveling in a vaguely sf world on a motorcycle, getting caught up in philosophical questions along the way. Madoka Magica is obviously a magical girl story, but it subverts the genre and creates a story about sacrifice and courage in the face of certain doom, alongside the more normal themes of friendship and hope. This is why I watch anime. Sure, I could watch stuff that fit comfortably inside established genres, but there’s a lot of stuff that doesn’t, that leaves me unsure what to expect. There are new and inventive stories being told, and that’s exciting.
I don’t know about most of these. Madoka is just play on some fatalistic anime. In one episode of Sailor Moon - virtually the gang is killed off but somehow return later. Titan seems to be a horror piece. But for the most part animes throughout seem to be just repeats of what seems to be popular. Macross had the same themes of sacrifice that ugh are present in Madoka for example and people - even heroes die off there.

Also remember that not everything is Hollywood. 😉 The world is far, far bigger.

Ever since much animation has been outsourced to the likes of Hana Pro in Korea, TW and China, it’s become cheaper to produce anime. But for the most part it’s very predictable stuff with people behaving predictably. The mannerisms are the same. The personalities are the same. The villains deliver the same monologues. Maybe it’s some form of modified Kabuki, I dunno. You know the lauging princess with her hand covering her mouth and that fake laugh. Or the typical poses… I like these shows for the most part, but I somtimes wish heroes were more varied in behaviour as were villains. Perhaps it’s convention or perhaps it’s just laziness.
 
Look at low brow junk anime like
Danganropa - it’s basically Battle Royale Redux. More sadism disguised as what??? A play on executions? Kids killing each other? It’s popular in the West too, and a game is coming.
Corpse Party - children some as young as 6 years old - stabbing each other to death??? I hear it’s a popular game in the West too.
When they Cry - there’s a “nice” manga excerpt of a 10 year old girl lying with her throat slit on a rock and in the anime, the one scene where the witch chokes the child to death is sickening. It’s loli and guro fandom all in one. Lolicons who are into blood and snuff.

I don’t know why this stuff is made, but I guess it satisfies a hunger in some people. It’s also a trope which is being milked. I think Madoka more fits into this than something else more worthwhile.
 
You should check out non-Hollywood non-anime satirical animation. There are some wonderful things there, from the 30s right through now. There was probably more stuff before. Eastern European stuff is especially great: Polish, Russian, Czech, but Europe as a whole produces and has produced a great amount of thought provoking satirical animation.

Some examples: (you can look at YT for example)
Everything is a Number (1967)
Pictures at an Exhibition / The Old Castle (Mussorgsky) (1992)
Long Bridge in Desired Direction 2012? (trailer)
youtube.com/watch?v=j7ssN074hxc
The Stairs 1967

Of course more commercialised and recent work such as:
Triplets of Belleville
youtube.com/watch?v=Npro9kjyaJk
is also good.

Tamala Punk Cat in Space is Japanese. It has some swearing and violence in it but is pretty surreal. But it’s not traditional anime but an indie film. Kafka’s Diary of a Country Doctor is also a nice indie anime.
I’ll check them out (the trailers you linked to certainly look interesting), but I was mostly wondering about recent stuff. I’m not seeing anything interesting among recent American animation (that wasn’t immediately canceled), nor in movies except for adaptations. The anime examples I gave were all from the last ten years, most of them the last five. (Well, technically Kino no Tabi is eleven years old, but it’s close.) They are all examples of current or recent creativity in anime. If there’s another country creating stories on that level in any medium other than books, I want to know where that’s happening.

It’s not so much surrealism I’m looking for as just basic creativity. New charcters. Old ideas combined in new ways. Stories that don’t fit nicely under the “[career] drama” label or basic genre descriptions like “supernatural” or “mystery”.
I don’t know about most of these.
They’re all pretty out there, but none are unpopular (Kino’s Journey isn’t well-known, but people who have seen it say it’s excellent, and I agree).
Madoka is just play on some fatalistic anime. In one episode of Sailor Moon - virtually the gang is killed off but somehow return later. Titan seems to be a horror piece. But for the most part animes throughout seem to be just repeats of what seems to be popular. Macross had the same themes of sacrifice that ugh are present in Madoka for example and people - even heroes die off there.
All mediums generally repeat stories. And that’s not horrible, as they exist for a reason. But anime doesn’t only cater to those who like established narratives; it’s a medium where risk-taking and creativity can be found, even if they’re not the standard. I can’t think of any medium where the standard is taking risks rather than relying on established plots, settings, and character archetypes.

Titan has too much science fiction and shonen influence to be considerd pure horror, however many of the characters die. Madoka may be the natural continuation of fatalism applied to magical girl shows, but the theme is different from Sailor Moon. Madoka *fails.*The point is that even though the heroes’ sacrifices ultimately change nothing and only postpone the inevitable, they are still valuable because they allow other people to have the chance to live. Then you have the whole thing with time travel and entropy and aliens, and the exploration of human desires and whether any of them can be valuable (Madoka, Homura, Sayaka and maybe even Mami prove that our wishes can be valuable). Just killing off characters does not an original piece make. New character types, new settings, combining genre conventions and themes in new ways, letting plots unfold slightly differently, changing up the presentation- that’s what’s interesting. Not everything has to put a brand new spin on the old ideas (after all, the old stories exist for a reason and are powerful in their own right), but it’s interesting to watch things that do.
Also remember that not everything is Hollywood. 😉 The world is far, far bigger.
Ever since much animation has been outsourced to the likes of Hana Pro in Korea, TW and China, it’s become cheaper to produce anime. But for the most part it’s very predictable stuff with people behaving predictably. The mannerisms are the same. The personalities are the same. The villains deliver the same monologues. Maybe it’s some form of modified Kabuki, I dunno. You know the lauging princess with her hand covering her mouth and that fake laugh. Or the typical poses… I like these shows for the most part, but I somtimes wish heroes were more varied in behaviour as were villains. Perhaps it’s convention or perhaps it’s just laziness.
Yeah, a lot of it sticks to conventions. But not all of it, and unless you can show me a country that’s been just bursting with creativity over the last ten years, I’m going to stick to my assertion that modern Japanese animation is as creative as any other medium (other than books, which will probably always be the most creative and have the least quality control).
 
I’ll check them out (the trailers you linked to certainly look interesting), …
There may be less recent stuff as animation for adults was produced in the East until the 90s. These shows were satirical in nature and difficult for audiences to enjoy so right now production houses make kid shows. But what’s there is rich and varied and does enrich the soul.
Titan has too much science fiction and shonen influence to be considerd pure horror, however many of the characters die. Madoka may be the natural continuation of fatalism applied to magical girl shows, but the theme is different from Sailor Moon. Madoka *fails.*The point is that even though the heroes’ sacrifices ultimately change nothing and only postpone the inevitable, .
If Madoka died and so prevented other girls from becoming MGs then she did not die in vain. I still however think people care about Madoka and her other MGs because they’re little girls although they’re fake little girls. No little child had ever had to deal with such scenarios except in situations of war where better directors drawing on the best film schools and real experience of survivors can produce better works. Watch some Soviet era WW2 films - or Eastern European war films and you’ll see in films like KANAL real sacrifices of real people, based on real events and not conjured up dreams of type B fans of MG anime shows in Japan. Situations where young children and young adults died in vain for real. Watch the Japanese film NOBODY KNOWS and there you’ll see something really terrible happen, all based on REAL EVENTS. GAICHU is a good Japanese film too about a decline of a high school student played by the same actress from another great “EUREKA”. Watch Decalog 1 to see a father’s worst fears come to realisation and how tragedy follows ones’ own overconfidence and vanity. These are live action films.
And if you want to really see horror - not the saw the variety but the type which shows despair and real psychological change watch the Soviet made film “COME AND SEE”, researched and based on true events. So I do take Madoka with a pinch of salt. I am not impressed that a story so contrived as to corrupt shows which are shows for little girls who do stupid and innocent things little girls do in fantasy shows and “deconstructs” that are somehow great cinema. They’re not. It’s just a type of Battle Royale imposed on little kids. Which itself is pretty sickening. Any sort of war drama can be a Madoka show but at least we know the show is based on truth. Soldiers fight in wars and often battles are sacrifices for nothing. Individual lives count for nothing. Many WW1 and WW2 and even Civil War films made about that type of motif. At the end the character can get something or nothing or something positive can come from what evil happened to the character.
Yeah, a lot of it sticks to conventions. Japanese animation is as creative as any other medium
Bursting with creativity? Watch European TV. Watch some of the satirical animation I spoke about. Some of these shows are also available on DVD. But don’t say that because Disney/Hollywood does not make so much variety, anime with the same themes over and over again (varied mostly by hair colour and colour of school uniform or design of familiar/robot) are somehow unique and varied in creativity. They’re less creative than most Western stuff. 🙂

For example there’s a great TV show about life like cyborg robots from Sweden, called Äkta människor (US is already remaking it.) If possible try to see the original version and maybe the remade version too. Scandinavians also have some nice criminal shows, one for example is a series about an inspector who has Alzheimer’s. They’re not typical Hollywood stuff or NCIS/CIS stuff. But even in Hollywood stuff there is a huge gulf between shows such as MILLENNIUM, a show such as NCIS, a show such as BETRAYAL or BATES MOTEL. A show like SERENITY is vastly different to STAR TREK TNG which differs from from other STAR TREKS and which differs from FARSCAPE and more so from BATTLESTAR GALACTICA. So even on that front the creativity is there.

The mother in BATES MOTEL is a richer and more realistic character than any you’ll find in any anime.

Anyway it’s not my job to change peoples’ minds. Explore the world. And sometimes that means sourcing DVDs from overseas. Sometimes you may need a multi-region machine, and sadly sometimes productions such as Balabanov’s “THE STOKER”
youtube.com/watch?v=0CN0YVrEI0o
are not available in English yet. BTW most of Balabanov’s films are meaningful.
 
There may be less recent stuff as animation for adults was produced in the East until the 90s. These shows were satirical in nature and difficult for audiences to enjoy so right now production houses make kid shows. But what’s there is rich and varied and does enrich the soul.
I’ll look into it, then. Thanks for the tip. 🙂
If Madoka died and so prevented other girls from becoming MGs then she did not die in vain.
Girls still have to become MG’s. They still die of falling into despair, too. The only difference if that they disappear instead of turing into witches, and now the magical girls fight wraiths. (IDK if they changed that in the movie, but that’s what I’m referring to with the series ending. Madoka wanted to save everybody, and she did save them from the huge witch. But not even Madoka could stop entropy and keep Kyubey’s race from making more magical girls.)
I still however think people care about Madoka and her other MGs because they’re little girls although they’re fake little girls. No little child had ever had to deal with such scenarios except in situations of war where better directors drawing on the best film schools and real experience of survivors can produce better works. Watch some Soviet era WW2 films - or Eastern European war films and you’ll see in films like KANAL real sacrifices of real people, based on real events and not conjured up dreams of type B fans of MG anime shows in Japan. Situations where young children and young adults died in vain for real. Watch the Japanese film NOBODY KNOWS and there you’ll see something really terrible happen, all based on REAL EVENTS. GAICHU is a good Japanese film too about a decline of a high school student played by the same actress from another great “EUREKA”. Watch Decalog 1 to see a father’s worst fears come to realisation and how tragedy follows ones’ own overconfidence and vanity. These are live action films.
And if you want to really see horror - not the saw the variety but the type which shows despair and real psychological change watch the Soviet made film “COME AND SEE”, researched and based on true events. So I do take Madoka with a pinch of salt. I am not impressed that a story so contrived as to corrupt shows which are shows for little girls who do stupid and innocent things little girls do in fantasy shows and “deconstructs” that are somehow great cinema. They’re not. It’s just a type of Battle Royale imposed on little kids. Which itself is pretty sickening. Any sort of war drama can be a Madoka show but at least we know the show is based on truth. Soldiers fight in wars and often battles are sacrifices for nothing. Individual lives count for nothing. Many WW1 and WW2 and even Civil War films made about that type of motif. At the end the character can get something or nothing or something positive can come from what evil happened to the character.
I can’t comment on war films. While I understand that there are amazing war films out there and that they’re powerful and lots of guys love watching them, they’re not for me. There are a bunch of guys at war, and they make noble sacrifices and fight valiantly even when some of them die. There’s no doubt that it’s a powerful narrative, but it’s not often one that speaks to me.

Madoka does. Not because of the death and destruction, but because it’s about the hopes and fears of little girls who want to be heroes. Even though they end up losing themselves, they keep fighting. Their sacrifices aren’t in vain- they manage to change fate a little bit, even if the war and fighting will continue until the end if time. In some ways it does affirm that human desires are powerful, as Madoka is able to reshape the timeline and save magical girls from the pain of having to slay their comrades who fell into despair. It’s not much, and it doesn’t stop entropy or stop little girls from having to fight the forces of darkness. But it’s something. So while it is arguably a tragedy, it’s an encouraging one that affirms the value of friendship, sacrifice, and continuing to fight against forces more powerful than yourself.

I don’t think you can say that no middle-school girl has ever experienced despair, or that none of them have ever wished that they could have the power to fight against the inevitable. It’s a dramatization of that experience, yes, but it is an experience that some girls have. Sayaka’s backstory isn’t even particularly novel; she wants her friend to be healed, and I know there are kids that have dealt with that. The solution isn’t realistic, no, but the feelings involved are.

If a show about teenage girls speaks to me and encourages me to avoid falling into despair, it isn’t simply a slaughter-fest. It did something right. You don’t have to like it, just as I don’t have to get any enjoyment out of watching most war films. But I don’t think Madoka Magica is simply a corrupted version of Sailor Moon or more idealistic stories. It isn’t just there to shock, disgust, or play with people’s emotions. A lot of people found it inspiring.

And just so you know… I’m not really that cynical? Madoka was cool, but I don’t need a lot more of the same. A show like that makes me want to watch something with a more conventional happy ending, and I think I enjoy the happy, innocent shows more when I’ve just seen somewhat darker ones. It’s like when Grave of the Fireflies and My Neighbor Totoro were released, audiences only sat through both when Grave of the Fireflies came first. Something innocent like Totoro becomes a lot more meaningful if you’ve seen the other side of the coin, so I try to keep the shows I watch balanced. Attack on Titan is pretty gory and dark, so my next show should be something light and innocent. Like Digimon or something. In fact, that’s good, I’m going to finish Digimon Tamers next.
 
Bursting with creativity? Watch European TV. Watch some of the satirical animation I spoke about. Some of these shows are also available on DVD.
I shall. It must have some pretty good things to offer if they’re better than what I’ve seen of anime.
But don’t say that because Disney/Hollywood does not make so much variety, anime with the same themes over and over again (varied mostly by hair colour and colour of school uniform or design of familiar/robot) are somehow unique and varied in creativity. They’re less creative than most Western stuff. 🙂
I’m watching all the right anime, then, because I skip over anything that’s just doing the same premise again and again. I seriously doubt that there’s another show exactly like Fullmetal Alchemist, Haibane Renmei, or Planetes, but I suppose I could be wrong.
For example there’s a great TV show about life like cyborg robots from Sweden, called Äkta människor (US is already remaking it.) If possible try to see the original version and maybe the remade version too.
Cyborgs are good. Worth looking into, thanks. 🙂
Scandinavians also have some nice criminal shows, one for example is a series about an inspector who has Alzheimer’s. They’re not typical Hollywood stuff or NCIS/CIS stuff. But even in Hollywood stuff there is a huge gulf between shows such as MILLENNIUM, a show such as NCIS, a show such as BETRAYAL or BATES MOTEL. A show like SERENITY is vastly different to STAR TREK TNG which differs from from other STAR TREKS and which differs from FARSCAPE and more so from BATTLESTAR GALACTICA. So even on that front the creativity is there.
Half the shows you listed are clearly SF, which does have a lot of originality compared to other genres (which is why I watch it). I don’t actually mind NCIS as a mystery show, though- I wouldn’t call myself a fan exactly, but mysteries often work better if the premise of the show is comfortable. I dunno, maybe Abbie and Gibbs just grew on me. 🤷

Either way, I accept that there is creativity in other places. You’re just not going to convince me that anime isn’t ever creative. 😉
The mother in BATES MOTEL is a richer and more realistic character than any you’ll find in any anime.
Those are fighting words, buddy! Challenge accepted. I shall investigate this and report back with an example of an anime character that is even more nuanced than she. Or I’ll lose. Either way, it’ll be fun.

Although is it actually a good show? Because I heard it kind of doesn’t work as a prequel to Psycho. :ehh:
Anyway it’s not my job to change peoples’ minds. Explore the world. And sometimes that means sourcing DVDs from overseas. Sometimes you may need a multi-region machine, and sadly sometimes productions such as Balabanov’s “THE STOKER”
youtube.com/watch?v=0CN0YVrEI0o
are not available in English yet. BTW most of Balabanov’s films are meaningful.
I’ll put him on the list of stuff to check out, too, then. I can’t deal with DVD’s, though. Not until I’m financially independent, which is going to be a good long while.

But yeah, you’ve told me about some really interesting stuff, and I’m excited to learn more about it. Thanks. 🙂
 
I’m currently watching one called Welcome To The NHK and so far it’s a black comedy about some hikkikomori or NEET’s - basically shut-ins with anxiety disorders and there’s two who live next door to each other and begin developing one of those dating simulation games.

Has anyone seen this anime and what do they think of it?
Currently on Ep. 6 so no spoilers!
 
That’s a great essay. I can see how that works- and I hope he’s right that adults will eventually go back to seeing how great it is when the world around us and the meaning it has are put together and interpreted. Sad, though, that animation is considered mainly a children’s medium by a lot of people. It has so much potential. The possibilities are almost limitless.
That misconception is sad indeed.
Yes! You know, thinking of your article, it occurs to me that speculative fiction is uniquely suited for animation. In the first place, it’s much easier to animate a somewhat cartoony spaceship or a dragon than it is to create a realistic image to place in a live-action movie. Even the dragons that look realistic are animated with computers, since there are some things we just can’t simulate any other way.

And secondly, speculative fiction is a realm ruled by ideas and metaphor, rather than pure realism. It’s never pure abstraction, because narratives can’t be abstract the way still visual art can. (Well, I guess you could try to make an abstract narrative, but I don’t think you’d come up with anything recognizable as a story.) I’ve heard far too many English teachers discuss science fiction as though it’s only about man’s relationship with machines, when it’s clearly often used as a tool to discuss men themselves, by taking them to a new setting and watching them react. Fantasy has even more freedom- it’s odd that teachers should dismiss it, but they always seem to. These give us the freedom to create worlds that work however we want them to, which frees us up to discuss meaning and concepts and humans rather than strictly mechanical problems. And animation is a great medium to use for that, because animation isn’t concerned with mechanical problems, either. If you can draw it, it can happen. Bam. But we almost never use it to tumble through a series of meaningless images distinct from reality, and when we do, the results are not impressive. Animation lets us focus on the essence of things, the important bits. It’s about reality, but it can capture reality as we see it, as it affects us- it’s reality with meaning, meaning and reality mixed together, because they’re linked and they lose something when we try to drive them apart,

-]I don’t know if that made any sense, but I’m not going to delete it now./-]
It has great potential. Animations are cheaper than big budget summer movies too.
I’m glad it isn’t boring. I feel like it is, but hey! That’s why we make art in the first place, to record and communicate our feelings to other people, hopefully changing their lives for the better. It’s really important that way, and I guess it’s good to discuss how it affects specific people, negatively and positively.
You think these anecdotes are boring?
Oddly enough, most of the things I liked as a kid were actually good when I rewatched them. I mostly watched stuff that I didn’t even like, though, and now I look back and wonder why I wasted my time. I watched hundreds of episodes of Dragon Ball Z, even though half the show was just guys standing around taunting each other and listening to the narrator. (I know exactly why I did that, though. I needed to know what happened to Piccolo. All the other characters just got in the way.)
Some series I’ve watched have aged quite well too.

Oddly enough, most of the things I liked as a kid So I’ve heard. Have you seen them? Were they better than the series?

They are different. Specially after the second movie. The third one is surprising.

There is less brooding and instrospection, it has more action, and I guess more palatable to a wider audience. Again, it has new references too.
Two reasons- one, anything with an ongoing storyline risks being canceled before the storyline is completed, if it doesn’t do well. And two, a lot of anime is based on manga that hasn’t ended when the anime airs. If the anime catches up to the manga, it either has to end without any sort of closure or come up with a new ending. The new endings are usually worse than the manga counterparts, partly because they’re written by different people and partly because they’re usually rushed.

Evangelion just ran out of money, though. And now it’s weird because they did go back and give it a different ending. Multiple times. 😛
There are series that don’t have a previous manga, and these suffer from short lenght, strange endings, etc.
 
Wizard Barristers. Description says that people can use magic, and those who do sometimes transgress and when that happens a “magical court” is convened staffed with magical barristers. The lead is a gurl 🙂 who is just such a barrister.
I see. Thanks!
Nicknamed Hikki by the second girl. Yes. It was a very interesting series. More than contrived plot or fanservice. 🙂 The black haired girl is also a bit of a tsundere.
I wanted more screentime for Yukino Yukinoshita.
Note how in the more serious shows, the main villains were often effeminate.
Yes, I remember older series having villains like that.
Indeed. Hence I think the writers would have enough knowledge of the religion, Catholicism and Christianity as a whole, per se.
Although many of them seem to have a superficial and aesthetically based knowledge.
Only an anecdote but you’re welcome.
🙂
CesarAugustus;11579987:
Yes, and sillier after looking at the bigger picture.
A lot of realistic art is kitschy. And technically it’s become easier now to reproduce things. In the past a work of art - a painting/drawing which was realistic but without some interesting technique or showing some symbolic imagery, well that was what we’d call kitsch now but was still valued because there was no photography or video. If you wanted a picture of Venice, for example, you got one which looked kitschy - nowadays people just take snapshots, buy a book or download from the web.
I don’t think a great part of Baroque or Academic Painting is kitschy. I think more contemporary paintings tend to fall in that area.
I find this sort of thing a recurring problem with anime. Shows are often unfinished. Additional material has to be sourced which explains endings better. Or series flat out start with one needing quite advanced knowledge of the universe beforehand.
I have seen that in short original anime, and short adaptations that aren’t likely to get sequels.
The whole series and movie is now $45. I remember I bought the series one DVD at a time when it first came out in English ($18 if you preordered, $22 standard price). ADV did the release and I could not wait for each successive DVD, they were 2-3months apart. I think I found out about the series by seeing the previews on the Sakura Wars OAV DVD which was my second anime purchase on DVD.
That looks like a good price for a complete series.
Kamaduck;11583014:
I dunno. Anime seems pretty creative compared to what I’m seeing come out of other countries. I mean, I guess most of what every country produces isn’t worth watching, but anime doesn’t seem any more stagnant than any other medium. I wouldn’t be here if I wasn’t seeing anything new and interesting. -]And at least in Japan they don’t cancel brilliant shows after one season because too many girls are watching./-]
I watch a variety of programming. But nowhere else are things so predictable and behaviours so stereotypical. Yeah sometimes there is a twist or two. But for the most part, your typical manga/eroge/visual novel anime adaptation is the same thing. That’s not always a bad thing, if you enjoy seeing the same sort of conflict, eg tsundere hero interactions that’s a good thing because you get to see what you like over and over again with just a variety of different hairstyles, outfits, backdrops. But other countries and industries tend to be more nuanced and varied.
It’s not really any worse than what Disney does with dozens of direct-to-video sequels. Or the concept of sequels in general, actually. Spin-offs and reboots can be OK, but sequels have a tendency to be awful and exist in copious amounts.
Disney may do it, but all Japanese anime studios do it, or the majority do it. Maybe Production IG doesn’t.
I think there is a perception of better quality because the big number of series they produce every season, compared to other countries. Is easier to find something good from plenty of series to choose.
 
I don’t know Tenofovir, this seems exactly like what the big four TV networks do. Every Sitcom is merely the same dilemma solved by different characters in different backdrops. Reality shows are merely the same drama played out with different game goals in different settings. Both sitcoms and reality shows have archetypal characters and similar comedy or drama. Cop shows are all alike, and many/most dramas (especially cop/lawyer/spy shows) follow similar plot structures, archetypes, and even similar backgrounds (always big city).

I find Anime is often more creative about the things it does change. Its settings and backgrounds are more creative then anything I have seen on TV, even most American animation, and it seems more willing to explore strange philosophies and character traits (You won’t find a Tohru Honda character in mainstream TV, nor would you find a Yuki Sohma for that matter (though you will find plenty of Kyos).

Some shows change something really drastically, but most just follow the mold.
That’s the advantage of animation. More possibilities.
 
Of course more commercialised and recent work such as:
Triplets of Belleville
youtube.com/watch?v=Npro9kjyaJk
is also good.
I saw that movie in my French class. Loved it. It has practically no dialogue, but loads of well-timed grunts, groans, screams, and sound effects.
Titan seems to be a horror piece.
Granted, I haven’t seen AoT, but I haven’t heard that description from anyone who has watched it.
 
You think these anecdotes are boring?
I would gladly trade anecdotes all day. I just worry that I’m boring other people. :o
They are different. Specially after the second movie. The third one is surprising.
There is less brooding and instrospection, it has more action, and I guess more palatable to a wider audience. Again, it has new references too.
I’ll need to see it. If nothing else, I can compare and contrast it to the original. And it’ll have epic mecha vs. alien battles, so that’s worth something.
There are series that don’t have a previous manga, and these suffer from short lenght, strange endings, etc.
Sometimes. Most anime are adaptations, but Princess Tutu for example had pretty perfect pacing and a wonderful ending. But yeah, adaptations seem to fair better overall because the story and characters have already been successful, so we know they work, and then they have source material to keep from going off-track.
I think there is a perception of better quality because the big number of series they produce every season, compared to other countries. Is easier to find something good from plenty of series to choose.
But that’s my exact point. There’s more total quality and total creativity in anime than there is in, say, American animation, because there’s more anime to choose from. The fact that there’s so much anime means that not every series needs to succeed for the companies to make a profit, which means they can gamble on weirder, riskier series. That’s where the creativity comes in. Because there’s so much of it, and so much less quality control, creators are free to breathe and make new things in a way that isn’t true of other industries.

That’s why I say books will probably always be the most creative medium, because they take less total effort and total money to produce, and there are tons of them, so people can make as many weird, new books as they want. Certain kinds of comics could overtake them in terms of creativity if books get a reputation as being too “respectable” or something, (comics also only take a single creator, so it wouldn’t be that hard), but mediums like that will always be more innovative than mediums like movies, which take hundreds of people and can’t afford to fail nearly as often these days.

My stance is that the average anime is going to be much worse than the average movie- but the best animes will be far superior (in terms of creativity and storytelling) than the best movies, because of the nature of each medium. The more total stories released in a medium, the better the best is and the worse the average is.
Granted, I haven’t seen AoT, but I haven’t heard that description from anyone who has watched it.
Anime news network lists it under no less than six genres- action, drama, fantasy, horror, psychological, and thriller. I’d probably say it has horror elements just because people keep dying in gory ways, but the presentation is more action/psychological than horror, since the characters aren’t just getting picked off and surviving by running, they’re actively fighting a threat. Even when people die (and it happens often), it’s not purely for shock or scare value; the heroes remember them and have difficulty dealing with the loss, and we explore their reasons for doing what they’re doing. It’s kind of an aged-up equivalent of Naruto with more character exploration, better action and animation, more graphic violence, and humanity always fighting a seemingly-impossible battle.

So no, I wouldn’t say “horror” is an adequate description. The atmosphere is completely different from, say, Higurashi.
 
Guys, I can hardly believe it, but we’ve gone past the 1000 post limit again! (>’-’)> <(’-’<) ^(’ - ‘)^ <(’-’<) (>’-’)> Only took about 2 years and a few months (it seems it took us much longer this time)! ^.^

Anyway, I think we are supposed to start an “Anime Thread #3”. But I wouldn’t be against giving it a cooler sounding name though (or at least having some Kanji/kana characters following the English title). 😃

So who wants the honor of doing so (and if someone does, please put link-backs to the 1st and 2nd anime threads in the OP)?
 
Guys, I can hardly believe it, but we’ve gone past the 1000 post limit again! (>’-’)> <(’-’<) ^(’ - ‘)^ <(’-’<) (>’-’)> Only took about 2 years and a few months (it seems it took us much longer this time)! ^.^

Anyway, I think we are supposed to start an “Anime Thread #3”. But I wouldn’t be against giving it a cooler sounding name though (or at least having some Kanji/kana characters following the English title). 😃

So who wants the honor of doing so (and if someone does, please put link-backs to the 1st and 2nd anime threads in the OP)?
Anime thread 3: You Can (Not) Repost.
 
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