Anime Thread #3: You Can (Not) Repost

[Tenofovir]

I would say that the mere presence of such a character could count as promotion… but I’m not sure if that was on the mind of the writer.

There are no other relationships in the show, at least by episode 5. I’d say promotion would mean they would have other relationships and posit this as an alternative.

Is the topic (similar depictions of that behavior) mentioned in moral theology manuals? That would be interesting to know.

Depictions of murder? Depictions of gluttony etc. Depictions of guys pointing out how “hot” another woman is. And this is arguably not even lesbianism but I don’t want to go over that one again.

Yes, that show doesn’t look vulgar. I mentioned vulgar western productions since you brought these in the other reply.

No I mentioned mainstream productions. James Bond is not considered vulgar by the mainstream.

The case of depictions of sinful actions is an interesting one. One way to look at it, is to analyze how these are portrayed. Are they glorifying them? there is an edifying message? what purpose they have? what is allowed, what about guidelines? I have been thinking about that in recent months, and not only from a viewer point, but from a writer/artist one.

In this case they’re not glorifying it but using it as a gimmick. It’s a show for guys, and the presence of other male (romantic) characters may spoil the mood and cause distraction. We have instead closely knit group of friends. And there is some sort of bunny thing going on in the show too.

Also, some of the things you mention are still seen as bad by various people… but is not the same with homosexuality, a “special” thing for lots of people.

I think natural theology approaches sex in terms of when it can be ordered correctly and not. Sex in the context of marriage when it strengthens the husband-wife bond and is not blocked from the reproductive element is ordered. Sex when it is outside of marriage or not between for the above reasons or leading to the above/i.e thwarting them would be morally bad and disordered.

Note that same sex attraction per se is not a sin and the type of stuff depicted in these anime shows - not speaking about the more obviously sexual ones where they French kiss and so on, is not I think real lesbianism but again we don’t want to argue that again.

 

[Tenofovir]

How many mainstream films do you see coming from Hollywood which don’t feature actresses who show off cleavage, their bodies, seductive poses or expressions, never mind nudity and sex? I think the vast majority do.

In that context the intent is to get people to watch and buy the DVD or movie ticket. To like the movie and recommend it to their friends. In the context of this anime, the crush this girl has, which is only one of many motifs of the show and the payoff is in the comedy aspect IMO. There may also be a deeper underlying motif of the girl who has the crush, actually having an inferiority complex and pretending to be wealthy because she thinks that’s what others expect of her or that’s what’s popular.

 

[CesarAugustus]

There are no other relationships in the show, at least by episode 5. I’d say promotion would mean they would have other relationships and posit this as an alternative.

Ah, is the only one… is what is being displayed… that would count as promotion. Is the first relationship (or crush) you see.

Depictions of murder? Depictions of gluttony etc. Depictions of guys pointing out how “hot” another woman is. And this is arguably not even lesbianism but I don’t want to go over that one again.

With similar, I was referring to same sex attraction. How it should be presented.

No I mentioned mainstream productions. James Bond is not considered vulgar by the mainstream.

You mentioned ads, etc. And some of these are vulgar, even if people don’t see it.

In this case they’re not glorifying it but using it as a gimmick. It’s a show for guys, and the presence of other male (romantic) characters may spoil the mood and cause distraction. We have instead closely knit group of friends. And there is some sort of bunny thing going on in the show too.

The way it could be used that arguably passes as acceptable (but I’m wary of that, considering the current status of fandom), is what Kamaduck said months ago. Having some sort of moral message about that.

I think natural theology approaches sex in terms of when it can be ordered correctly and not. Sex in the context of marriage when it strengthens the husband-wife bond and is not blocked from the reproductive element is ordered. Sex when it is outside of marriage or not between for the above reasons or leading to the above/i.e thwarting them would be morally bad and disordered.

Note that same sex attraction per se is not a sin and the type of stuff depicted in these anime shows - not speaking about the more obviously sexual ones where they French kiss and so on, is not I think real lesbianism but again we don’t want to argue that again.

So, you think is lesbianism if is only acted upon. The mere inclination per se is not a sin (is still disordered tough)… but why include that, in a show, where you have the control of what you are making… and as a gimmick, not even trying to have a moral tale out of that… and, considering the following these sort of things have, more reasons to avoid including that. I guess the author of that series possibly didn’t envision that.

The question remains, what is allowed to present, what is allowed to watch… etc.

 

[CesarAugustus]

How many mainstream films do you see coming from Hollywood which don’t feature actresses who show off cleavage, their bodies, seductive poses or expressions, never mind nudity and sex? I think the vast majority do.

In that context the intent is to get people to watch and buy the DVD or movie ticket. To like the movie and recommend it to their friends. In the context of this anime, the crush this girl has, which is only one of many motifs of the show and the payoff is in the comedy aspect IMO. There may also be a deeper underlying motif of the girl who has the crush, actually having an inferiority complex and pretending to be wealthy because she thinks that’s what others expect of her or that’s what’s popular.

And that is terrible too. Is sad that movies and ads retort to such practices.

 

[ironchapman]

Here’s a post of mine from another thread that sums up my basic approach to fanservice in anime.

Most anime that isn’t directed at little kids has fanservice of some sort. I don’t find that a reason to discard a show on its own. I admit to being tempted occasionally by certain scenes. If it’s really problematic, I usually just leave the show behind, as most of those shows don’t have much on the story or character development side anyways. Sometimes if it was a very minor instance of temptation because, for example, I let my guard down or something, I just resolve to do better in the future and may continue following the series.

One thing that has helped me in the past is the realization that these characters, no matter how attractive they are, how much skin they are showing, or how suggestive the post are not real. There is no way I could have a relationship with them. There is no way I could ever even just have sex with them, to say nothing of the issue of morality. No matter what body parts or glimpses of skin I can or cannot see, they can provide me no sexual pleasure outside of my own deluded fantasies, should I choose to embrace the temptation. That doesn’t mean I don’t occasionally find myself tempted by an anime character or other work of art, but it does help me overcome it before it goes any further than just a temptation. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve found my inhibitions working better and better at asking me, “Why would you think that about [character]?” Hopefully it continues to get better as I mature more.

If something comes up that bothers you for a brief moment while you are watching somethingbut its not willful, I don’t think it’s a problem. It’s when you start willfully entertaining and engaging the thoughts that it is one

I’d like to add as well that sometimes the stuff that bothers me might just be passion that strikes because it’s a new stimulus or “in the heat of the moment”. If I go away from the series and come back several months later, it doesn’t bother me any more, once I gain perspective on how silly it was for me to think that way.

Sometimes it’s also my mind saying to me, “What about that? Does that bother you?” in an attempt to actually get me tempted, or “That used to bother you. Does it still?” Since I tend a bit towards overanalyzing and scrupulosity, my mind frequently tries to distract me by noting what could distract me, whether its fanservice in an anime or distractions from doing my work or distractions during church (like studying the cobwebs on the windowsill instead of paying attention to the homily or prayers–or inventing an imaginary scene in my head when I should be paying attention to them).

If you’ll bear with me for the TMI, in the end, once I came to the realization in that second paragraph of my quoted post, it’s become easier to deal with potential lustful occasions in anime. Realizing that masturbation was neither worth it spiritually nor was the physical satisfaction all that great has also helped. Like most people, lust is still something I struggle with, but with God’s help I’m getting better and realizing things like what I’ve just mentioned.

I hope some of this helps you guys.

 

[ironchapman]

s for things like homosexual crushes and such, if it’s played for laughs but isn’t intended as a serious pursuit, I’ll laugh at it. I don’t approve of homosexuality, but people doing stupid things has been a key element of comedy since writing began. It’s the same thing with most other sexual immorality.

Incest I have a much bigger problem with, but as long as it’s not a too obnoxious or too fundamental of an element (like OreImo), I might be willing to put up with a show. I just find the concept revolting.

I don’t care for sex scenes in shows. It’s not just for the thoughts it might induce. It’s just the knowledge that it’s actors pretending because you can’t actually show sex without it being porn (necessitating the usage of blankets) ruins the suspension of disbelief for me. Of course, I admit to having scene some porn in the past (I’m not proud of it at all, but I have done it). The sex scenes never really did it for me, so I’ve never really picked up a porn addiction. It’s the teasing that’s a bigger problem.

Again, sorry if that’s TMI, but I hope it helps some of you.

 

[Tenofovir]

Ah, is the only one…

I dunno. They work in a coffee shop. Is the show promoting coffee drinking?
That’s also another gimmick. Having coffee drinking allows for gags including the reading of fortunes from coffee cups as well as cappuccino art. In addition the character in question gets high from very small amounts of caffeine which makes it another source of gag material.

That’s not to say an anime show can’t be about a very specific hobby or occupation too including getting into technicalities. Wasn’t Robotic Notes more about that, or the anime with the Girls and Guns (paintball games).

I don’t think it’s promotion. Again for me - and after watching anime for many years - the reason is obvious. They don’t want to have male characters of similar age. And they want to go with the gags and motifs of embarrassment etc which follows from having a crush on someone. The girl is also a viewer surrogate in some way as it may IMO represent a male viewer who may also feel a crush in such a situation. Again without introducing a male character. It’s similar to the way most harem anime have a loser main male character who almost never, has any sex or anything sexual beyond a a kiss (also rare). Sex in harem anime is extremely rare. Why? Maybe cause they’re shonen shows - for younger males but also because, I think, the audience members are the real MCs and they still want their girls to be pure.

Adding in a boy of a similar age who is part of the group would mean the group dynamic is now different. Also instead of 5 cute faces, we have 4 cute faces and a male - yuck! Haha. Seriously, we don’t need that in this type of show. But I will say one thing at least and that is that yes, I would prefer if there were no suspicious girl-girl crushes here although many young women do have very close non-sexual yet intense relationships, even one sided, with great admiration from one side. It reminds me of the difference between my co-ed high school and the high school a female friend attended which was a private upmarket, girl only school. Our hs classes here are ages 12/13-17/18y - junior high and senior high are together. In my co-ed school when I started it it was customary to do a lot of hazing for the males - heads dunked in toilets by seniors, making junior kids carry suitcases for the senior year and so on. In the girl only posh school, the senior girls would find one junior girl and write letters to them on a personal level and then help them out and coach them along - guide them along and sort on. Admittedly the approach is different and between male-male and female-female bonding. The latter would be seen as “gay” if done in the male-male context.

With similar, I was referring to same sex attraction. How it should be presented.

Sure. But the idea is that immoral things are presented almost ubiquitously. One should put everything in the right context.

You mentioned ads, etc. And some of these are vulgar, even if people don’t see it.

Vulgar is only a subset of what could be considered sinful under natural theology/law. Merely having characters laugh at someone who is a virgin and their attempts to try to hook them up is not vulgar per se as the sexual aspect is only alluded to indirectly but we all know what everyone means.

The way it could be used that arguably passes as acceptable (but I’m wary of that, considering the current status of fandom),

You see it’s a Japanese show for Japanese fans. It’s not a show which promotes any agenda per se other than follow on the motifs which sell, which are group of cute girls sans any male characters who have their little ups and downs and a lot of quirky, Japanese humour with plenty of socio-cultural references some of us may not even get. This is not, a show written by an LGBTI advocacy group or a show produced by artists with such sympathies. Things there are for gimmick value, the way sometimes an anime will have a priest or a nun and it doesn’t mean the anime is now a good thing to watch and Christian people should support it.

So, you think is lesbianism if is only acted upon.

The author of the show is Japanese and same sex attraction is tolerated there although same sex marriage is illegal. And most Japanese are not interested in legalising it the way most Americans and British people are.

Not every thing can have a moral value though. There are positive moral values in the show in that it for example has nuanced criticism of dishonesty.

The question remains, .

Of course one can watch a show with lesbians and gays in it. That’s not a sin. It would be a sin for a gay person to watch such a show for sexual kicks or a straight person to watch a fanservice show for sexual kicks. (I don’t want to concede that this character is gay though because young girl-girl admiration and crushes need not signify homosexuality.)

American Catholic NY Times blogger has an interesting article here:
nytimes.com/2014/06/01/opinion/sunday/douthat-prisoners-of-sex.html?_r=1

Note his reference to the old “intensive friendships”. I bet you, the type of friendship shown in many of these Yuri-Lite shows - such as in Raligun or this show, (and not the obvious full on lesbian love shows) is more in line with that. Before our sexual revolution and sex obsession most people and the clergy would probably consider such relationships not to be gay at all.

 

[Tenofovir]

I think it’s important for viewers to see these shows in the original cultural context. Yes some things depicted are not koscher, and yes definitely there is a lot of dark anime/manga stuff - never mind the hentai and especially the “lolita complex” pedo stuff.

But it’s important to see some things such as:

The presence of cute. Japanese and other East Asians are really into that. So much so that the Japanese government (eg police, post) use manga and cute characters in official documents.

Presence of this yuri-lite thing. No it’s not someone pushing an agenda in most cases.

Anime/Manga is often very unrealistic.

A viewer should always note cultural differences and not import these things into their own lives. Try to get the good from the good that one can get, and avoid the porno and blasphemous stuff, but when a show has something we consider immoral, try to see it in context and maybe learn from it the way others approach this in their mainstream media.
Try to see what the reason for the things are/i.e. intent of the author. Is it a political one or one to promote such or is it a mere presence of such as a vehicle to convey something else, or maybe it’s unavoidable that such sometimes exist and even a semi realistic anime has to have some of that too sometimes.

Again anime is unrealistic so it need not reflect actual attitudes of people.

But also don’t try to think that one must emulate what one sees in anime/manga or take deep moral lessons from it. It’s entertainment. Find the good (and why), and reject the bad (and why), and question the questionable, I’d say.

 

[CesarAugustus]

Here’s a post of mine from another thread that sums up my basic approach to fanservice in anime.

If something comes up that bothers you for a brief moment while you are watching somethingbut its not willful, I don’t think it’s a problem. It’s when you start willfully entertaining and engaging the thoughts that it is one

I’d like to add as well that sometimes the stuff that bothers me might just be passion that strikes because it’s a new stimulus or “in the heat of the moment”. If I go away from the series and come back several months later, it doesn’t bother me any more, once I gain perspective on how silly it was for me to think that way.

Sometimes it’s also my mind saying to me, “What about that? Does that bother you?” in an attempt to actually get me tempted, or “That used to bother you. Does it still?” Since I tend a bit towards overanalyzing and scrupulosity, my mind frequently tries to distract me by noting what could distract me, whether its fanservice in an anime or distractions from doing my work or distractions during church (like studying the cobwebs on the windowsill instead of paying attention to the homily or prayers–or inventing an imaginary scene in my head when I should be paying attention to them).

If you’ll bear with me for the TMI, in the end, once I came to the realization in that second paragraph of my quoted post, it’s become easier to deal with potential lustful occasions in anime. Realizing that masturbation was neither worth it spiritually nor was the physical satisfaction all that great has also helped. Like most people, lust is still something I struggle with, but with God’s help I’m getting better and realizing things like what I’ve just mentioned.

I hope some of this helps you guys.

Yes, but not everyone realizes that.

While I don’t have a problem with some fanservice, I guess it could bother other people, so I refrain from recommending some works, or I try to warn people when I see certain productions mentioned.

As an author, I would avoid including these things.

 

[CesarAugustus]

I dunno. They work in a coffee shop. Is the show promoting coffee drinking?

That’s also another gimmick. Having coffee drinking allows for gags including the reading of fortunes from coffee cups as well as cappuccino art. In addition the character in question gets high from very small amounts of caffeine which makes it another source of gag material.

Comparing coffee drinking with homosexuality?

That’s not to say an anime show can’t be about a very specific hobby or occupation too including getting into technicalities. Wasn’t Robotic Notes more about that, or the anime with the Girls and Guns (paintball games).

I don’t think it’s promotion. Again for me - and after watching anime for many years - the reason is obvious. They don’t want to have male characters of similar age. And they want to go with the gags and motifs of embarrassment etc which follows from having a crush on someone. The girl is also a viewer surrogate in some way as it may IMO represent a male viewer who may also feel a crush in such a situation. Again without introducing a male character. It’s similar to the way most harem anime have a loser main male character who almost never, has any sex or anything sexual beyond a a kiss (also rare). Sex in harem anime is extremely rare. Why? Maybe cause they’re shonen shows - for younger males but also because, I think, the audience members are the real MCs and they still want their girls to be pure.

I understand that, I have watched anime for years too. I get from where they could be coming from, but that doesn’t mean I can’t criticize it.

Adding in a boy of a similar age who is part of the group would mean the group dynamic is now different. Also instead of 5 cute faces, we have 4 cute faces and a male - yuck! Haha. Seriously, we don’t need that in this type of show. But I will say one thing at least and that is that yes, I would prefer if there were no suspicious girl-girl crushes here although many young women do have very close non-sexual yet intense relationships, even one sided, with great admiration from one side. It reminds me of the difference between my co-ed high school and the high school a female friend attended which was a private upmarket, girl only school. Our hs classes here are ages 12/13-17/18y - junior high and senior high are together. In my co-ed school when I started it it was customary to do a lot of hazing for the males - heads dunked in toilets by seniors, making junior kids carry suitcases for the senior year and so on. In the girl only posh school, the senior girls would find one junior girl and write letters to them on a personal level and then help them out and coach them along - guide them along and sort on. Admittedly the approach is different and between male-male and female-female bonding. The latter would be seen as “gay” if done in the male-male context.

Yes, much better if they stopped at friendships… I understand these difference you speak of. These are part of the differences between males and females.

Sure. But the idea is that immoral things are presented almost ubiquitously. One should put everything in the right context.

That would mean presenting depictions of sin, in an appropriate way, I think, fulfilling a moral message, or displaying consequences, or presenting it a way that doesn’t look like support or acceptance. Obviously, there are sins that shouldn’t be protrayed.

 

[CesarAugustus]

You see it’s a Japanese show for Japanese fans. It’s not a show which promotes any agenda per se other than follow on the motifs which sell, which are group of cute girls sans any male characters who have their little ups and downs and a lot of quirky, Japanese humour with plenty of socio-cultural references some of us may not even get. This is not, a show written by an LGBTI advocacy group or a show produced by artists with such sympathies. Things there are for gimmick value, the way sometimes an anime will have a priest or a nun and it doesn’t mean the anime is now a good thing to watch and Christian people should support it.

The author of the show is Japanese and same sex attraction is tolerated there although same sex marriage is illegal. And most Japanese are not interested in legalising it the way most Americans and British people are.

I know that the target of the majority of anime, are Japanese fans. And probably various authors don’t know, or don’t care about the situation in the west, except for people like Gen Urobuchi that according to some interview is interested in the writing of same-sex relationships.

But, such shows could end helping lgbt agendas in the west, not by having these groups endorsing it (although there are some activist intersected in the fandoms that do these things), but, for the effect on people watching them. I wrote about that months ago. People softening their stances, becoming more accepting or embracing of homosexuality, etc. I have seen such cases in recent years… is more annoying when Christians fall in that, considering the vicious campaigns some feminist, progressive and lgbt groups have in various countries (and obviously, because they end supporting a very grave sin). For example (these have happened in South American countries), the attacks to Churches and Cathedrals, the persecution and ridiculing of Catholics in various media venues, the indoctrination campaigns in schools (like a recent example, of having a transvestite dance for kindergarten children, in a government supported event).

Not every thing can have a moral value though. There are positive moral values in the show in that it for example has nuanced criticism of dishonesty.

Of course one can watch a show with lesbians and gays in it. That’s not a sin. It would be a sin for a gay person to watch such a show for sexual kicks or a straight person to watch a fanservice show for sexual kicks. (I don’t want to concede that this character is gay though because young girl-girl admiration and crushes need not signify homosexuality.)

I would like to read moral theology sources about that.

But besides that, is problematic to keep having homosexual people in shows in a normalizing or accepting way.

American Catholic NY Times blogger has an interesting article here:
nytimes.com/2014/06/01/opinion/sunday/douthat-prisoners-of-sex.html?_r=1

Note his reference to the old “intensive friendships”. I bet you, the type of friendship shown in many of these Yuri-Lite shows - such as in Raligun or this show, (and not the obvious full on lesbian love shows) is more in line with that. Before our sexual revolution and sex obsession most people and the clergy would probably consider such relationships not to be gay at all.

I think the crushes go beyond intense friendships, this is something different.

 

[CesarAugustus]

I think it’s important for viewers to see these shows in the original cultural context. Yes some things depicted are not koscher, and yes definitely there is a lot of dark anime/manga stuff - never mind the hentai and especially the “lolita complex” pedo stuff.

I know that, but, I don’t think cultural context exempt something from further analysis.

But it’s important to see some things such as:

The presence of cute. Japanese and other East Asians are really into that. So much so that the Japanese government (eg police, post) use manga and cute characters in official documents.

Presence of this yuri-lite thing. No it’s not someone pushing an agenda in most cases.

Yes, they have a great appreciation for cuteness. An the yuri-lite shows play a lot into that. But, as I said earlier, is dangerous.

Anime/Manga is often very unrealistic.

A viewer should always note cultural differences and not import these things into their own lives. Try to get the good from the good that one can get, and avoid the porno and blasphemous stuff, but when a show has something we consider immoral, try to see it in context and maybe learn from it the way others approach this in their mainstream media.
Try to see what the reason for the things are/i.e. intent of the author. Is it a political one or one to promote such or is it a mere presence of such as a vehicle to convey something else, or maybe it’s unavoidable that such sometimes exist and even a semi realistic anime has to have some of that too sometimes.

Again anime is unrealistic so it need not reflect actual attitudes of people.

But also don’t try to think that one must emulate what one sees in anime/manga or take deep moral lessons from it. It’s entertainment. Find the good (and why), and reject the bad (and why), and question the questionable, I’d say.

While we understand that, many people in the fandom don’t get it, and since some years ago, are turning worse.

 

[Kithrus]

Hmm, no reposts? I’m going to make this the best shoT then…

youtube.com/watch?v=mfOWz_RJBz8&feature=player_detailpage

if your not in love with the dream like chaotic but creative narrative then… wow.

 

[sidetrack]

Watched the first three episodes of “Legend of Korra”,book 3.

-the idea of an airbending antagonist like the first convict who escaped at the end of the first episode is an interesting change that was bound to happen sooner or later

-the way poor Tenzin was not good at making “door to door proselyting” appealing while being plain spoken about the menedict like (Tibetan monastics inspiration + being air nomads makes me now think of them also as menedicts) lifestyle the Air nomads had,which full grown adults can join in their “nation rebuilding” was there to illustrate a point I’d guess.As was Korra’s attempt at convincing a 22 yr old who said kept on negating how everyone (like the avatar) has duties to the world that they gotta follow (such a throw of sand to the face of what Aang did and Korra has done so far )

-episode 3 ends with a common “ppl with powers are being coerced by government into being weapons” note which is being done by the Earth Queen who Bolin and Mako’s new found paternal grandma is fond of

Overall not a to bad return to form.Unlike the political thriller like first season or lacking second season,it doesn’t seem like this time it’ll be about dangerous tensions btw Water tribe siblings (I don’t think Korra’s cousins will sub for that) but a plot with a yet again anti-war msg like the original series.Now that I’d like to see more often be the stuff plots are made out of rather than hackeyed revenge stories.

I’m wondering if Varrik will pop up again and be more serious about war profiteering and the Iroh like bear and face scar/burned old man from the trailer shoulda tipped me off that Zuko himself would be back xD .

The Earth queen seems like a stuck-up expansionist wannabe who’ll be trying to take back the former Earth kingdom land from the United Republic of Nations (URON as I’ll call it;the capital being a place Korra recently got exiled out of it seems). I don’t know how illicit Dai Li work still is but the real antagonistic thrust I’m guessing will be coming from the escaped convicts who’d like to displace the White Lotus Society (and avatar) for some reason.

Interesting tip-offs:in the first episode Meelo says he hope they’re be enough Air benders for an army he could be commander of but one of his sister’s brings up how Air nomads have no armies;in contrast to Bumi’s past military career which Aang might’ve been skittish about with that mention _ (Bumi also being the first one to be shown as having air bending powers emerged).

The “element of substance” (earth) and the “element of freedom” (air) collide this season and can give Korra a justification to learn metal-bending I suppose…

---

Guy’s has anyone here talked about Maxwell Duo’s beliefs ?. From what I heard he’d debate with the orphanage priest that God is a “god of death” and I’m guessing he’s something along the lines of an atheistic existentialist,who’s in on seeing only “part” of existence cuz of that…:…part of me smells a good fan-fic of him reforming his convictions,particulary with the faith and knowledge we have about Christianity around here,eh ?.

 

[ironchapman]

Yes, but not everyone realizes that.

While I don’t have a problem with some fanservice, I guess it could bother other people, so I refrain from recommending some works, or I try to warn people when I see certain productions mentioned.

As an author, I would avoid including these things.

Well, I still stumble every now and then, but it provides me with an effective defense to either pick me back or or catch me before I stumble.

And I wasn’t trying to justify fanservice. When I write, I avoid it (although a literary description of such a scene is different from an image or movie/TV scene depicting it, IMO–still wrong regardless). Just noting how I deal with it when it’s there.

Reminding myself that the characters aren’t real usually stops my eyes from straying or catches them when I’ve realized what I’m doing. When I catch myself, I dust myself off (so to speak), ask for forgiveness, resolve to do my best with God’s help not to do it again, and move on with my life. It’s a lustful thought about a character that isn’t real–even if/when masturbation is involved. Lust is a serious sin to be sure (Orthodox don’t make an official distinction between venial and mortal sins), and all sin is sin to God, but the only person you’re hurting is yourself. You’re not committing a sin where another is directly harmed like robbery, rape, or murder. If lustful thoughts become pervasive in an anime series and that’s the only or main thing I think about while watching it, I stop watching it. if I can’t enjoy a series outside of fulfilling lustful desires, I don’t watch it or stop watching it (hence why I don’t watch shows like Queens Blade or stopped watching Hyakka Ryouran Samurai Girls).

As I said, none of this should diminish the fact that lust is a serious sin (it is one of the seven deadly sins for a reason), but perhaps a little perspective is needed.

 

[ironchapman]

You know, we keep having these same discussions with a lot of the same people, and we always come to the same basic conclusions. Lust is bad, fanservice is bad, and you should avoid series with the latter, or at least a lot of the latter (since most series have at least some small amount of fanservice, because it tends to cause the former. We have different opinions on the particulars and different methods, but it’s the same basic thing. I get the feeling we’re beating a dead horse at this point.

I bought a volume of the Kekkaishi manga today. Any opinions on the series? Also bought a volume of the Scrapped Princess anime, too, because Ichiro Sakaki knows how to do fantasy.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Well while you’re all debating about fanservice over there, Imma be just in the corner here mulling about how some game/toy companies use anime as a big advertising tool. Surprisingly, I’ve come to find it quite clever. I suppose it’s something you’ll only understand best when you’ve become a marketer yourself. Sure this makes anime series seemingly subpar but when your real intention is to advertise your product, the standards need to change. Otherwise it’s starting to feel like evaluating cooking shows under the standard of news programs.

That said, I’d like to open a sub-discussion focused on how this kind of tactic works best. Personally, the only problem I have is that it still takes too long to show me the future product info I’ve been waiting for. In the case of TCGs for example, there are times when I only get a card image or subtle nod in the new season’s OP. For God’s sake Bushiroad, was that what I thought it was? Does my deck finally get new support? Why don’t you just tell me? TELL MEEEEEE!?!?!?!?! ;w;

Ah alas, I suppose they just can’t give everything away so soon. That’s one way to keep me hooked. (Still, grrrgh, the wait is just killing me sometimes! >w< )

 

[CesarAugustus]

Well, I still stumble every now and then, but it provides me with an effective defense to either pick me back or or catch me before I stumble.

And I wasn’t trying to justify fanservice. When I write, I avoid it (although a literary description of such a scene is different from an image or movie/TV scene depicting it, IMO–still wrong regardless). Just noting how I deal with it when it’s there.

Reminding myself that the characters aren’t real usually stops my eyes from straying or catches them when I’ve realized what I’m doing. When I catch myself, I dust myself off (so to speak), ask for forgiveness, resolve to do my best with God’s help not to do it again, and move on with my life. It’s a lustful thought about a character that isn’t real–even if/when masturbation is involved. Lust is a serious sin to be sure (Orthodox don’t make an official distinction between venial and mortal sins), and all sin is sin to God, but the only person you’re hurting is yourself. You’re not committing a sin where another is directly harmed like robbery, rape, or murder. If lustful thoughts become pervasive in an anime series and that’s the only or main thing I think about while watching it, I stop watching it. if I can’t enjoy a series outside of fulfilling lustful desires, I don’t watch it or stop watching it (hence why I don’t watch shows like Queens Blade or stopped watching Hyakka Ryouran Samurai Girls).

As I said, none of this should diminish the fact that lust is a serious sin (it is one of the seven deadly sins for a reason), but perhaps a little perspective is needed.

Something important is avoiding occasions of sin, knowing limits and such. Obviously, tehre are things that always are a no-no… and is something I’ve been thinking about, like having a list of these things to avoid regardless of being ocassion of sin or not. It would be very useful

You know, we keep having these same discussions with a lot of the same people, and we always come to the same basic conclusions. Lust is bad, fanservice is bad, and you should avoid series with the latter, or at least a lot of the latter (since most series have at least some small amount of fanservice, because it tends to cause the former. We have different opinions on the particulars and different methods, but it’s the same basic thing. I get the feeling we’re beating a dead horse at this point.

I bought a volume of the Kekkaishi manga today. Any opinions on the series? Also bought a volume of the Scrapped Princess anime, too, because Ichiro Sakaki knows how to do fantasy.

Hahaha, yes. I think the fanservice issue is settled already.

I have read about Scrapped Princess, it sounds interesting.

How is the manga?

 

[CesarAugustus]

Well while you’re all debating about fanservice over there, Imma be just in the corner here mulling about how some game/toy companies use anime as a big advertising tool. Surprisingly, I’ve come to find it quite clever. I suppose it’s something you’ll only understand best when you’ve become a marketer yourself. Sure this makes anime series seemingly subpar but when your real intention is to advertise your product, the standards need to change. Otherwise it’s starting to feel like evaluating cooking shows under the standard of news programs.

That said, I’d like to open a sub-discussion focused on how this kind of tactic works best. Personally, the only problem I have is that it still takes too long to show me the future product info I’ve been waiting for. In the case of TCGs for example, there are times when I only get a card image or subtle nod in the new season’s OP. For God’s sake Bushiroad, was that what I thought it was? Does my deck finally get new support? Why don’t you just tell me? TELL MEEEEEE!?!?!?!?! ;w;

Ah alas, I suppose they just can’t give everything away so soon. That’s one way to keep me hooked. (Still, grrrgh, the wait is just killing me sometimes! >w< )

Also, there is the case of the OVA’s and series that work as advertisement for Light Novels or Manga. I saw recently an OVA about some kids having their first kiss, and I got the impression it was to advertise the manga.

A classic example of advert productions are various Transformers series. Some have more work and passion into it, while others feel like animated advertisements.

There is the need of showcasing the news toys, but also balancing it with an interesting story.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Also, there is the case of the OVA’s and series that work as advertisement for Light Novels or Manga. I saw recently an OVA about some kids having their first kiss, and I got the impression it was to advertise the manga.

A classic example of advert productions are various Transformers series. Some have more work and passion into it, while others feel like animated advertisements.

There is the need of showcasing the news toys, but also balancing it with an interesting story.

Whether it’s a manga, toyline, video game, or a light novel, I think the real key element here is faithfulness to a sort ‘original product.’ There should be some element in the show that reflects a core part of that product. For example:

Manga/Light Novels - Fillers are more or less hated because they don’t really add much to the story. On the other hand, people like it when they finally see a noteworthy scene adapted to something like, say, the TV/movie screen.

Video Games - Some distinguishing feature of the game must be in place. Things like the thematic features of the characters, signature abilities, or even just a unique part of the gaming interface (e.g. transitions from behind the camera lens in Photo Kano).

Toys - I think design is key in this industry. If something just doesn’t look good (whether it’s in the anime or in the action figures), then it’s just bad. You need to have your audience enjoy the sight of something like this, touching it, and having fun with all the moving parts.

TCGs - I actually think Yu-Gi-Oh! fails this considerably because there’s just a lot of things in the anime that’s disconnected from the game. (It’s kind of one reason why I stopped watching it.) I give more props to shows like Cardfight Vanguard because it’s more aligned with the product launches despite the story never being too interesting. (They turned the bishie rival into the main character all to feature cards that’ll more or less balance the meta. Sounds crude but surprisingly, the fact that I don’t really care kinda proves that it works!)