Anime Thread #3: You Can (Not) Repost

[CrucisLucia]

Nope.

Did not know the term ‘weaboo’ at all. I am, however, familiar with the term ‘lookabo.’

Oh, another slang that who-knows what’s meaning is.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Oh, another slang that who-knows what’s meaning is.

Equivalent to ‘rubbernecker.’

 

[CesarAugustus]

Sorry to be late on the discussion, but what is the “classical topic” and the “guidelines” and what are those “intrinsically sinful productions” and why are they classified as sinful? Sorry if this grabbed by curiosity, but if such discussion is discouraged or taboo, it is okay not to reply on me at this one.

I don’t recognize any names on the top after skimming the posts of people here, as I anticipate the release of Rewrite anime during this Summer and the new Love Live! Sunshine anime in the Love Live! franchise. I have a thing for visual novels and idol anime, guess I am a person that loves such stuff.

I am watching Date A Live!, and it seems not lewd or “immoral” (Ehem) as its genre as harem anime might suggest. It is just good romantic comedy coupled with action, as judging from the first 3 episodes, its tackling of the plot and storytelling with the harem genre makes for good hilarious comedy.

Hi.

I said classical because it has been repeated in this and other iterations of the thread. Basically, is a typical discussion about the immoral contents of various series, occasions of sin, etc. Now, that you mentioned Love Live!, it seems that one of these topics is going to appear again… shoujo-ai content of some series. Supplementary material, like manga adaptations of some Love Live! novels, include things like that. The anime series, seems to avoid that, except for possible interpretations of the lyrics of certain songs. Is something increasingly common for slice of life series that feature a primarily female cast to give hints on that direction, or being directly in that sub-genre.

Date a Live

anidb.net/perl-bin/animedb.pl?show=anime&aid=8808

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/DateALiveMainCharacterAndSpirits

God bless you.

 

[anon67074017]

“Anime” is a genre of fiction or can be argued, literature. How can some anime be sinful? Can a book be naturally sinful if it is not doing anything, and has no person as a work of literature? Can objects commit sin?

I, for myself do not believe that some anime can be or is sinful, since fictional works of literature cannot be “sinful” as they are not real. It holds the same, for all works of literature and for all objects. Even an occult book of incantations cannot be sinful, a book cannot commit any sin. The person reading from the occult book and doing the incantations on it is the one doing the sin, not the book.

I believe that it is people’s reactions on the content, the themes and the messages expressed in anime that leads to sin. It is what they do after and how they react that is “sinful”.

A more closer answer to your question is perhaps about the “immoral” content in some anime such as nudity, violence and sex and also anti-Christian and anti-Catholic themes. Individual review of anime titles can help these.

Just as St. Basil said: (Underline is mine)

St. Basil is speaking about Greco-Roman pagan literature, but his message rhymes with Japanese anime that take from the heathens only from the anime “whatever befits us and allied to the truth” and “pass over the rest”.

A book as an object can not be sinful. Objects can not sin. I was just wondering if people here objected to anime because of themes about homosexuality and incest.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

A book as an object can not be sinful. Objects can not sin. I was just wondering if people here objected to anime because of themes about homosexuality and incest.

I object to a positive treatment of those themes in any art form. But are you implying all or most anime contains the above?

 

[anon67074017]

I object to a positive treatment of those themes in any art form. But are you implying all or most anime contains the above?

I have heard of anime that contains that kind of content. I don’t know if it is true for most anime.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I have heard of anime that contains that kind of content. I don’t know if it is true for most anime.

It’s likely a small percentage.

 

[CrucisLucia]

Hi.

I said classical because it has been repeated in this and other iterations of the thread. Basically, is a typical discussion about the immoral contents of various series, occasions of sin, etc.

Basically, everyone’s favorite discussion.

Now, that you mentioned Love Live!, it seems that one of these topics is going to appear again… shoujo-ai content of some series. Supplementary material, like manga adaptations of some Love Live! novels, include things like that. The anime series, seems to avoid that, except for possible interpretations of the lyrics of certain songs. Is something increasingly common for slice of life series that feature a primarily female cast to give hints on that direction, or being directly in that sub-genre.

I don’t know, but the yuri and the shoujo-ai aspect is implicit only in Love Live! and maybe only a cherry for the white cake frosting. It is restricted to implications, suggestions, non-obvious references and the most explicit is Nozomi groping. Haven’t read the manga, but I expect them to be not that explicit. Overall, you have to give interpretations to scenes in some episodes, and there’s only some 2 songs that the yuri aspect seems explicit (Garasu no Hanazono and Zurui yo Magnetic Today, and in Nico x Maki song though, it’s not even that explicit). Beyond that is only reinterpretation and nothing but very close girl-to-girl friendship and BFF forever ~~~.

Love Live! is not a yuri series to be precise but an idol franchise, and again, the yuri and shojo-ai aspect is merely implicit flavoring.

God bless you.

God Bless.

 

[CrucisLucia]

I was just wondering if people here objected to anime because of themes about homosexuality and incest.

Anime is a wide collection of works revolving around different subjects and genres like action, fantasy, romance, science fiction, horror, comedy and etc, so many anime tackle different topics. Just like movies, books and video games, it would be wrong to say that all video games revolve on violence and teaching kids how to kill because not all video games deal with the same content.

Perhaps, there are anime that involve homosexuality and incest. Yes, there are anime that involve nudity, sex, violence, and immoral and anti-Christian themes. On a side note, there are anime that teaches values on friendship and family, good morals and I’m sure there are some anime (or manga, video games and VNs) that present Christianity and Catholicism in a more positive light.

 

[CesarAugustus]

Basically, everyone’s favorite discussion.

I don’t know, but the yuri and the shoujo-ai aspect is implicit only in Love Live! and maybe only a cherry for the white cake frosting. It is restricted to implications, suggestions, non-obvious references and the most explicit is Nozomi groping. Haven’t read the manga, but I expect them to be not that explicit. Overall, you have to give interpretations to scenes in some episodes, and there’s only some 2 songs that the yuri aspect seems explicit (Garasu no Hanazono and Zurui yo Magnetic Today, and in Nico x Maki song though, it’s not even that explicit). Beyond that is only reinterpretation and nothing but very close girl-to-girl friendship and BFF forever ~~~.

Love Live! is not a yuri series to be precise but an idol franchise, and again, the yuri and shojo-ai aspect is merely implicit flavoring.

God Bless.

A couple years ago we had more lively discussions, since there were people defending some of their favorite shows.

Yes, that was the song I was referring to.

The manga in question is the adaptation of the School Idol Diary novels. I was reading that there was a chapter where one of the girls was receiving lots of love letters, and other girl knew that, and was teasing her about the reason of rejecting these was because she already had a relationship with a girl, and what could happen if they became a couple instead.

Some sites, forums, etc. are surprisingly detailed with these things. Although much of these is just the fans projecting what they want to watch in some situations, sometimes they mention actual material there. So, for getting an idea about the contents of a show, they can be a good source, plus reviews and sites like anidb.

Yes, I know is an idol franchise. Still, I object to that subtext or implicit content in series.

 

[CrucisLucia]

A couple years ago we had more lively discussions, since there were people defending some of their favorite shows.

Yes, that was the song I was referring to.

The manga in question is the adaptation of the School Idol Diary novels. I was reading that there was a chapter where one of the girls was receiving lots of love letters, and other girl knew that, and was teasing her about the reason of rejecting these was because she already had a relationship with a girl, and what could happen if they became a couple instead.

Some sites, forums, etc. are surprisingly detailed with these things. Although much of these is just the fans projecting what they want to watch in some situations, sometimes they mention actual material there. So, for getting an idea about the contents of a show, they can be a good source, plus reviews and sites like anidb.

Yes, I know is an idol franchise. Still, I object to that subtext or implicit content in series.

Well, people certainly react to things differently than other people. Some people object more, others object less. Hence, the existence of Values Dissonance - tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ValuesDissonance

I don’t know why people would want to debate the morality and the immorality of fictional creative works. First, it’s not like people would expect works of entertainment to be 100% moral, certainly not in this fallen world. Second, it’s hard to establish the line of separation between creative entertainment and morality, since an artist dealing with creative and fictional license does not always have to worry about moral depiction of content.

Forget all about that, back to Love Live!. First, Love Live! is a wide franchise, it’s a collection of manga, video games, light novels, singles, PVs, live performances, anime + 1 movie, radio shows and information shows. Second, the fanbase is equally diverse as well. Most newcomers of Love Live! only seems to know the anime, but there are fans who are focused on the idol and music aspect including me. They are also acquainted with Id@lmaster Cinderella perhaps. There are fans who are focused on the anime aspect, which are most anime fans who watched Love Live! There are also those who are more interested in the video game (SIF). There are fans focused on the seiyuu or the voice actress aspect. Then, finally, the ones you object are the LGBT fans who focus on the yuri implicit aspect, but these guys are a minority.

I do not want to judge on your moral views and opinions. I believe we’re both Roman Catholics (if we’re not, please clarify), but certainly, we have some differences on theological and doctrinal opinions.
However, you seem to believe that the yuri aspect in Love Live! is integral to the series when in reality it’s not no matter how canonical it is. Love Live! is too diverse a series for the yuri aspect to take prevalence, and adding to its implicitness, hence the reason why it is not a fully-fledged yuri franchise. The fact that you have to delve to the manga proves that, as the anime mostly downplays it. Most casual fans seem to be not focused on it so much. I, myself as a Love Live! fan downplay the yuri aspect of the franchise as it’s not what I’m looking for, I’m for the idol franchise, music, seiyuu and stuff, not the yuri and shoujo-ai.

Is the addition of an implicit yuri content in the franchise objectionable? Yes, but the Japanese are pagan heathens who do not care about Christian or Catholic values. And the gist is that Love Live! is a juggernaut series where the yuri aspect is still implicit to be severely morally objectionable, and only comprises a minor part in the franchise and a minor following in the wider fandom. Heck, there isn’t even a canon lesbian pair in µ’s, and as far as the canon goes, all of the 9 members are still “canonically heterosexual”. There are far worse positive portrayals of lesbianism in Japanese pop culture, such as yuri hentai and if you want truly explicit yuri anime, go for Kiniro Mosaic!. Even though it’s not hentai, I believe you’ll have fun watching that.

 

[CrucisLucia]

A couple years ago we had more lively discussions, since there were people defending some of their favorite shows.

Well, we’d have fun again. Here we are discussing the morality of Love Live!. Next we’ll probably be discussing about the theological and doctrinal aspects of Key Visual Novels.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

My personal rule is simple: If it makes me go, ‘Ewwww!’ It ain’t for me.

 

[CrucisLucia]

The manga in question is the adaptation of the School Idol Diary novels. I was reading that there was a chapter where one of the girls was receiving lots of love letters, and other girl knew that, and was teasing her about the reason of rejecting these was because she already had a relationship with a girl, and what could happen if they became a couple instead.

BTW, I read this part where you are talking about. It’s not even explicit, and you made it sound like the Umi or Eli had already Honoka or Nozomi as their official girlfriend.

It’s the part where Umi and Eli are receiving love letters, and both joked with each other to write the part Honoka and Nozomi are their girlfriend to troll the girls who wrote them love letters. And it’s Eli who teased Umi what could happen if they are to become a couple.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Some TV channel used to run it…isn’t it a ‘remastered’ (ie: heavily edited) version of DBZ? I watched a couple of episodes.

It looks like it’s mostly the same. I know there’s some editing, but I always enjoy a classic.

 

[SuperLuigi]

A book as an object can not be sinful. Objects can not sin. I was just wondering if people here objected to anime because of themes about homosexuality and incest.

Well, I haven’t seen that in most of the anime I’ve seen. I know the homosexuality is out there, but I don’t think it’s as preachy like it is some American media. The big issue with anime may just be the more pronounced and exaggerated depictions of male and female characters that may even put Barbie to shame. So I guess it could be easier for the less-disciplined to use it for inappropriate reasons even if that isn’t the intention or main focus of the artists.

Today, I’d pick anime over for what passes for prime-time TV in America.

 

[CrucisLucia]

Today, I’d pick anime over for what passes for prime-time TV in America.

American media makes Korean and Japanese pop culture seem holy and saintly in comparison.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Yes, but the Japanese are pagan heathens who do not care about Christian or Catholic values.

.

And yet…they exhibit many behaviors pleasing to God: patience, unselfishness, charity, saying a form of grace before each meal, ‘good Samaritanism’ politeness, I could go on …

What a telling remark.

 

[CesarAugustus]

Well, people certainly react to things differently than other people. Some people object more, others object less. Hence, the existence of Values Dissonance - tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ValuesDissonance

I don’t know why people would want to debate the morality and the immorality of fictional creative works. First, it’s not like people would expect works of entertainment to be 100% moral, certainly not in this fallen world. Second, it’s hard to establish the line of separation between creative entertainment and morality, since an artist dealing with creative and fictional license does not always have to worry about moral depiction of content.

Forget all about that, back to Love Live!. First, Love Live! is a wide franchise, it’s a collection of manga, video games, light novels, singles, PVs, live performances, anime + 1 movie, radio shows and information shows. Second, the fanbase is equally diverse as well. Most newcomers of Love Live! only seems to know the anime, but there are fans who are focused on the idol and music aspect including me. They are also acquainted with Id@lmaster Cinderella perhaps. There are fans who are focused on the anime aspect, which are most anime fans who watched Love Live! There are also those who are more interested in the video game (SIF). There are fans focused on the seiyuu or the voice actress aspect. Then, finally, the ones you object are the LGBT fans who focus on the yuri implicit aspect, but these guys are a minority.

I do not want to judge on your moral views and opinions. I believe we’re both Roman Catholics (if we’re not, please clarify), but certainly, we have some differences on theological and doctrinal opinions.
However, you seem to believe that the yuri aspect in Love Live! is integral to the series when in reality it’s not no matter how canonical it is. Love Live! is too diverse a series for the yuri aspect to take prevalence, and adding to its implicitness, hence the reason why it is not a fully-fledged yuri franchise. The fact that you have to delve to the manga proves that, as the anime mostly downplays it. Most casual fans seem to be not focused on it so much. I, myself as a Love Live! fan downplay the yuri aspect of the franchise as it’s not what I’m looking for, I’m for the idol franchise, music, seiyuu and stuff, not the yuri and shoujo-ai.

Is the addition of an implicit yuri content in the franchise objectionable? Yes, but the Japanese are pagan heathens who do not care about Christian or Catholic values. And the gist is that Love Live! is a juggernaut series where the yuri aspect is still implicit to be severely morally objectionable, and only comprises a minor part in the franchise and a minor following in the wider fandom. Heck, there isn’t even a canon lesbian pair in µ’s, and as far as the canon goes, all of the 9 members are still “canonically heterosexual”. There are far worse positive portrayals of lesbianism in Japanese pop culture, such as yuri hentai and if you want truly explicit yuri anime, go for Kiniro Mosaic!. Even though it’s not hentai, I believe you’ll have fun watching that.

BTW, I read this part where you are talking about. It’s not even explicit, and you made it sound like the Umi or Eli had already Honoka or Nozomi as their official girlfriend.

It’s the part where Umi and Eli are receiving love letters, and both joked with each other to write the part Honoka and Nozomi are their girlfriend to troll the girls who wrote them love letters. And it’s Eli who teased Umi what could happen if they are to become a couple.

Yes, I’m Catholic.

I know that aspect is minimal. Also I know that a majority of Japanese writers wouldn’t care about Catholic morality. But, the people watching, on other parts of the world would. Basically, is a discussion about, watch/don’t watch, and of course some people aren’t going to like that.

Creative license? that’s not an excuse to be relaxed in the portrayal of sin, evil, etc.

I’m aware of the variety of content on a franchise like Love Live. If I’m focusing on criticism of certain part of the series and fandom (because these things are there for gaining certain fans that care [or are obsessed] about shipping, etc) is because I don’t like to just let things like that pass without even a comment.

Being part of fandoms and choosing what to focus on. I think it depends, and there are franchises where is easy to compartmentalize (not sure how adequate is that term for this discussion) since there are various different series and it would be easier to focus on some and discard others.

On that part of the manga, I think that’s explicit enough for it being objectionable. I know that girls receiving love letters from other girls has become a running joke in some series in the school life or slice of life genres, but is still objectionable.

Kiniro Mosaic, yes, I know about that one. I don’t know about the manga, but I remember reading that the scriptwriter seems to be a yuri fan and focused on that when working on the anime adaptation. I tend to read about various shows that are available with each anime season.

God bless you.

 

[CrucisLucia]

Yes, I’m Catholic.

A good common ground.

I know that aspect is minimal. Also I know that a majority of Japanese writers wouldn’t care about Catholic morality. But, the people watching, on other parts of the world would. Basically, is a discussion about, watch/don’t watch, and of course some people aren’t going to like that.

It depends on the moral and the worldview of the people watching. The LGBT viewers, for example would appreciate and rejoice. The Christian viewers, on the other hand would probably object more. Most irreligious, would not. The reaction and the judgement of the consumers on the media would also depend on their worldview and personal beliefs.

Creative license? that’s not an excuse to be relaxed in the portrayal of sin, evil, etc.

Note, that I never made this comment in regards to Love Live!, I made this comment in regards to creative and fictional works in general.

This is not to say that artistic and creative license trumps out insensitive positive depiction of sin, but the goal of artistic license and creativity naturally contradicts the strict and austere depiction of Christian values, therefore the line is blurry between creativity, and depiction of moral content. For example is C.S Lewis and J.R.R Tolkien, who were able to make frequent use of magical and fantasy in their works to Christian allegory and themes despite ire from Christian fundamentalists that such is “occult” and “pagan”. Another example is nudity in Christian Renaissance paintings, though no one would consider them “porn” today.

The gist is, when you’re some Christian doing creative art like Lewis, Tolkien or some Christian renaissance painter, sometimes, you naturally contradict values in art due to artistic license.

I’m aware of the variety of content on a franchise like Love Live. If I’m focusing on criticism of certain part of the series and fandom (because these things are there for gaining certain fans that care [or are obsessed] about shipping, etc) is because I don’t like to just let things like that pass without even a comment.

Being part of fandoms and choosing what to focus on. I think it depends, and there are franchises where is easy to compartmentalize (not sure how adequate is that term for this discussion) since there are various different series and it would be easier to focus on some and discard others.

First, fandom is separate from canon work. Anyone can just do whatever they like as fanmade to a franchise, however sinful it is regardless of the intention of the authors or the canon developers. An example is the Vocaloid fandom.

Second, yes, there are things that are minor parts of a franchise, but sometimes, these niche aspects do not really occupy the whole aspect of the franchise as a whole, so there are certain aspects that are objectionable but not the whole franchise. Also, sometimes it depends on the scope and size of the franchise in question.

On that part of the manga, I think that’s explicit enough for it being objectionable. I know that girls receiving love letters from other girls has become a running joke in some series in the school life or slice of life genres, but is still objectionable.

Well, I believe we are confused on how we define “explicit”. I believe the reason it is implicit is there is no direct reference to lesbian relationships or lesbian couples. Only “teasing” or joke, but not direct, unlike direct lesbian and gay couples that we see in American media today - infoplease.com/entertainment/gays-in-pop-culture-timeline.html. Again, there are far worse positive portrayal of lesbianism in Japanese pop culture, like yuri pornographic hentai, which would be “really explicit”.

Kiniro Mosaic, yes, I know about that one. I don’t know about the manga, but I remember reading that the scriptwriter seems to be a yuri fan and focused on that when working on the anime adaptation. I tend to read about various shows that are available with each anime season.

God bless you.

You are starting to impress me with your Japanese pop culture knowledge. Kiniro Mosaic! is a manga turned into anime about some 3 Japanese high school girls and 2 British girls in a yuri love triangle and centers on their daily lives. The anime is renowned, aside from the yuri, for the proficient English by the voice actresses in British accent. The yuri in Kinmoza is 1000x more explicit than Love Live!, if you are truly looking for “explicit” yuri.

God Bless.