Anne a Lay Apostle -a Dilemma

[Evania]

Hi, I’m looking for some guidance on how to approach this issue.

We are so blessed to have perpetual adoration at our parish. For the last month or two, I noticed that there was a rather large case displayed prominently right next to the entrance to the adoration chapel filled with colorful booklets with titles such as Heaven Speaks About…and it would list different topics on each book: Stress, Priests, Depression, and about 10-15 other topics by a woman going by the name of Anne a Lay Apostle who is claiming to receive locutions from Our Lord, Our Lady and a large number of saints. I know we certainly have the right to reject private revelation, but my main issue isn’t the fact that we have the case at our parish. It’s the location that is bothering me, which is situated above the Bibles and the prayer books, right at the enterance of our adoration chapel. I’m starting to see that the booklets are now starting to be left by the kneelers, whether accidentally or intentionally. with the hopes that someone else might read it. People are also now quoting from them and sharing testimonies on how it has changed their lives which is fine, but I think that the fact that it is so prominently displayed, and where it is displayed, gives the impression that it is “approved”. Instead of meditating on the Word of God in Scripture, you pick a topic of what you happen to be dealing with this week and meditate on words that may or may not be those of Our Lord in the Presence of Our Lord.

Here are my questions:

Have these messages been approved? If you have links, I would appreciate it. If they are not approved, how should I go about seeing that this is removed from the Adoration Chapel?

Thanks for your advice!

 

[O_Lumen]

Here’s a little article I found on the subject. There’s also a thread on the subject here.

IMO, it would definitely be nice if folks would only follow *approved *apparitions or other mystical phenomena. Frankly, to do otherwise could be a case of rash credulity.

I wish I had advice on what could be done about this, but I have no experience with how to deal with problems at a parish.

 

[pianistclare]

First, I would find out exactly WHO is leaving the tracts and books about.
then, I would (non-accusingly) ask the Pastor privately about the display. Is he aware/ What are his thoughts on the matter? Be sure to thoroughly read the pro and con articles so that you can have a well informed and fair conversation. Then see what he says?

The article linked from Women of Grace sounds iffy to me. Seems harmless, then the next line seems odd. Hard to tell.

The thing that strikes me about all of this is:
People are apparently thirsty for “messages”.
Yet, we Catholics receive the ultimate message of the Gospel at EVERY SINGLE MASS!
Why in the world are we seeking from elsewhere? There are no more prophets.
We cannot see the forest for the trees at times. I suppose people think it’s exciting to contemplate.
I guess people doubt that the Lord has the world under control or that we can partake of the Resurrection if we are good.
Why do people doubt? Why do people seek these things?
That troubles me more than some woman in Ireland that thinks Jesus and Mary talk to her. Maybe she’s for real, who knows? People doubted St. Bernadette and others.

But seriously…I would ask my confessor why people think they need this.
He may have a different perspective.

 

[Jennifoo]

First, I would find out exactly WHO is leaving the tracts and books about.
then, I would (non-accusingly) ask the Pastor privately about the display. Is he aware/ What are his thoughts on the matter? Be sure to thoroughly read the pro and con articles so that you can have a well informed and fair conversation. Then see what he says?

The article linked from Women of Grace sounds iffy to me. Seems harmless, then the next line seems odd. Hard to tell.

The thing that strikes me about all of this is:
People are apparently thirsty for “messages”.
Yet, we Catholics receive the ultimate message of the Gospel at EVERY SINGLE MASS!
Why in the world are we seeking from elsewhere? There are no more prophets.
We cannot see the forest for the trees at times. I suppose people think it’s exciting to contemplate.
I guess people doubt that the Lord has the world under control or that we can partake of the Resurrection if we are good.
Why do people doubt? Why do people seek these things?
That troubles me more than some woman in Ireland that thinks Jesus and Mary talk to her. Maybe she’s for real, who knows? People doubted St. Bernadette and others.

But seriously…I would ask my confessor why people think they need this.
He may have a different perspective.

Excellent post! I’m a convert, and it’s always surprised me at how many Catholics seem to have a tabloid-quality fascination with apparitions, revelations and the like. When I politely remind them that everything needed for our salvation is found in the Church and that public revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle, I get a confused expression.

It’s not that I’m opposed to all apparitions, mind you. I don’t mind learning about the ones that the Church has approved: it’s just that I don’t see the point in chasing after new ones, as if we’re somehow lacking some secret knowledge and are incomplete without it.

 

[cjforJesus]

Hi, I’m looking for some guidance on how to approach this issue.

We are so blessed to have perpetual adoration at our parish. For the last month or two, I noticed that there was a rather large case displayed prominently right next to the entrance to the adoration chapel filled with colorful booklets with titles such as Heaven Speaks About…and it would list different topics on each book: Stress, Priests, Depression, and about 10-15 other topics by a woman going by the name of Anne a Lay Apostle who is claiming to receive locutions from Our Lord, Our Lady and a large number of saints. I know we certainly have the right to reject private revelation, but my main issue isn’t the fact that we have the case at our parish. It’s the location that is bothering me, which is situated above the Bibles and the prayer books, right at the enterance of our adoration chapel. I’m starting to see that the booklets are now starting to be left by the kneelers, whether accidentally or intentionally. with the hopes that someone else might read it. People are also now quoting from them and sharing testimonies on how it has changed their lives which is fine, but I think that the fact that it is so prominently displayed, and where it is displayed, gives the impression that it is “approved”. Instead of meditating on the Word of God in Scripture, you pick a topic of what you happen to be dealing with this week and meditate on words that may or may not be those of Our Lord in the Presence of Our Lord.

Here are my questions:

Have these messages been approved? If you have links, I would appreciate it. If they are not approved, how should I go about seeing that this is removed from the Adoration Chapel?

Thanks for your advice!

Anne the lay apostle is Kathryn Ann Clark. Her alleged locutions fall under the category of private revelation and I do not believe the Church has investigated them yet.

There are probably hundreds if not more people disseminating info through books and the internet claiming God the Father,Jesus,the Holy Spirit,Mary,saints,angels.spirit guides and even aliens are giving them locutions and revelations.

Everything we need to know for salvation has already been revealed,There are no secrets.

 

[fred_conty]

That should be approved by the parish priest. So I would ask him if these were approved by him. Then go from there.

 

[cjforJesus]

That should be approved by the parish priest. So I would ask him if these were approved by him. Then go from there.

It seems that her local bishop has given permission for her to publish her writings. He sees no doctrinal errors in them but has submitted them to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith for review.

These messages could be authentic or they could be pious musings too.In other words they may or may not be of supernatural origin.

 

[pianistclare]

It seems that her local bishop has given permission for her to publish her writings. He sees no doctrinal errors in them but has submitted them to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith for review.

These messages could be authentic or they could be pious musings too.In other words they may or may not be of supernatural origin.

Anne’s Bishop, not the OP’s Bishop. Right?

 

[cjforJesus]

Anne’s Bishop, not the OP’s Bishop. Right?

Of course.

 

[O_Lumen]

I don’t mind learning about the ones that the Church has approved: it’s just that I don’t see the point in chasing after new ones, as if we’re somehow lacking some secret knowledge and are incomplete without it.

Well, to be frank, the whole point of ecclesiastical tradition is to examine and develop and live out the deposit of faith. Private revelation belongs to this category, and there’s nothing at all about it that insinuates that the deposit of faith is somehow insufficient for salvation. On the contrary, it’s awfully hard to be a Catholic while utterly ignoring ecclesiastical tradition. Ecclesiastical and divine tradition should go hand-in-glove.

The problem, as I see it, is that folks want private revelation without waiting for the Church to make a judgment on it. This is an issue because they set themselves (and their emotions and feelings) up as a judge of these sorts of things, and that’s simple modernism.

Moreover, their emotions even tend to override the authority the Church has over these things: if the Church says no, they say yes, and vice versa.

 

[pianistclare]

Of course.

You can’t assume that in posts. All you stated was “her”.
That could be anyone in the thread.

At any rate, it is a matter for her priest and/or confessor.

 

[larrymocurley]

Jesus gives us the Gift of the Holy Spirit and this is part of the signs and wonders that follow-- but it is usally resurved for the charasmetic group-- not the regular church goer-- because it helps to have the Holy Spirit Gift of decernment-

1 Corinthians 14:26 What then shall we say, brothers and …
biblehub.com/1_corinthians/14-26.htm

When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, … When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, …

When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, …

1 Corinthians 14:29 Two or three prophets should speak …

Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the others judge. … prophesying was really speaking under the influence of the Spirit (compare 1Co 12:3; 1Jo 4:13).

personal revelation is usually an answer to prayer–

salvation is not the issue – it is as saint Paul said–

Hebrews 5:12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be …

You are like babies who need milk and cannot eat solid food. … teachers, you still need someone to teach you the basic truths of God’s word. … For you ought to be teachers, because of the time you have had in the doctrine, but now, again, you need to … To be unskilful, denotes want of experience in the things of the gospel.

1 Corinthians 3:2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you …

Indeed, you are still not ready. … I gave you milk to drink, not solid food, because you were not yet ready for it. …

5:13, "Every one that partaketh of milk is without experience of the Word of righteousness; for he is a babe. … but the apostle does not here mean , “the milk of the law”, as they (d) call it, but the Gospel; comparable .

 

[thistle]

Hi, I’m looking for some guidance on how to approach this issue.

We are so blessed to have perpetual adoration at our parish. For the last month or two, I noticed that there was a rather large case displayed prominently right next to the entrance to the adoration chapel filled with colorful booklets with titles such as Heaven Speaks About…and it would list different topics on each book: Stress, Priests, Depression, and about 10-15 other topics by a woman going by the name of Anne a Lay Apostle who is claiming to receive locutions from Our Lord, Our Lady and a large number of saints. I know we certainly have the right to reject private revelation, but my main issue isn’t the fact that we have the case at our parish. It’s the location that is bothering me, which is situated above the Bibles and the prayer books, right at the enterance of our adoration chapel. I’m starting to see that the booklets are now starting to be left by the kneelers, whether accidentally or intentionally. with the hopes that someone else might read it. People are also now quoting from them and sharing testimonies on how it has changed their lives which is fine, but I think that the fact that it is so prominently displayed, and where it is displayed, gives the impression that it is “approved”. Instead of meditating on the Word of God in Scripture, you pick a topic of what you happen to be dealing with this week and meditate on words that may or may not be those of Our Lord in the Presence of Our Lord.

Here are my questions:

Have these messages been approved? If you have links, I would appreciate it. If they are not approved, how should I go about seeing that this is removed from the Adoration Chapel?

Thanks for your advice!

NO. They are not approved.

 

[300WhiteKnights]

I am often surprised by Catholics when they are eager to condemn a private revelation that they themselves have not investigated or has not yet recieved full approval of the church. Look at Fatima, Lourdes, & st Faustina’s writings. Were they true only after the church approved them? Or were they true before then? My point is that we need to be prudent, but at the same time, not completely closed to the possibility that some revelations may be for real.

Personally, I think there is a good chance that Anne’s writings are authentic. She has the full support of her bishop and has received an imprimatur for her writings. I have also read some of her writings and listened to her testimony. I would not seek to remove her writings. there is nothing in there against the faith and if they help people, then what’s the problem?

When looking at a private revelation the correct approach should be: this may or may not be true, lets investigate carefully and “test the spirits.” Not “ipso facto this has not received approval yet or has been addressed by the church, therefore I will condemen it and avoid it.”

That has been the mindset towards all prophets in he OT. Jesus himself faced the full force of this with the Pharisees. “We already have the Law of Moses, we have no need for your revelation Jesus!”

I’ll close with this: be prudent, but not overly skeptical, because some revelations may be authentic. What if God is desperately trying to communicate something to the world and will be the cause of salvation and consolation to some souls, and you turn them away from that revelation without even investigating the writings yourself? You will have to answer to God for that! So be prudent.

 

[300WhiteKnights]

"They say to the seers, “See no more visions!” and to the prophets, "Give us no more visions of what is right!.. Isaiah 30:10

 

[pianistclare]

I am often surprised by Catholics when they are eager to condemn a private revelation that they themselves have not investigated or has not yet recieved full approval of the church. Look at Fatima, Lourdes, & st Faustina’s writings. Were they true only after the church approved them? Or were they true before then? My point is that we need to be prudent, but at the same time, not completely closed to the possibility that some revelations may be for real.

Personally, I think there is a good chance that Anne’s writings are authentic. She has the full support of her bishop and has received an imprimatur for her writings. I have also read some of her writings and listened to her testimony. I would not seek to remove her writings. there is nothing in there against the faith and if they help people, then what’s the problem?

When looking at a private revelation the correct approach should be: this may or may not be true, lets investigate carefully and “test the spirits.” Not “ipso facto this has not received approval yet or has been addressed by the church, therefore I will condemen it and avoid it.”

That has been the mindset towards all prophets in he OT. Jesus himself faced the full force of this with the Pharisees. “We already have the Law of Moses, we have no need for your revelation Jesus!”

I’ll close with this: be prudent, but not overly skeptical, because some revelations may be authentic. What if God is desperately trying to communicate something to the world and will be the cause of salvation and consolation to some souls, and you turn them away from that revelation without even investigating the writings yourself? You will have to answer to God for that! So be prudent.

The problem is not that we doubt. It’s that there are plenty of seers who are false. And the Church itself (a parish, in this case) should prudently WAIT until they are approved to distribute the materials.

By your logic, we should allow anyone to put any kind of pamphlets out there for the often naïve faithful.
Surely you don’t mean that?

That’s just being careful. We are to be careful as to what we follow.
There’s plenty to read in the Church and plenty of devotions. If this ones turns out to be credible there will be even more.
but for now, we must, in obedience to the Church, wait.

That’s why the OP is referring to it as a dilemma. She knows this., Yet someone, (we don’t know who) in the parish is promoting this as if it is already approved. Which it is not.

The dilemma can be resolved by a conversation with the Pastor, who is ultimately responsible for the things distributed in his parish.

 

[thistle]

I am often surprised by Catholics when they are eager to condemn a private revelation that they themselves have not investigated or has not yet recieved full approval of the church. Look at Fatima, Lourdes, & st Faustina’s writings. Were they true only after the church approved them? Or were they true before then? My point is that we need to be prudent, but at the same time, not completely closed to the possibility that some revelations may be for real.

Personally, I think there is a good chance that Anne’s writings are authentic. She has the full support of her bishop and has received an imprimatur for her writings. I have also read some of her writings and listened to her testimony. I would not seek to remove her writings. there is nothing in there against the faith and if they help people, then what’s the problem?

When looking at a private revelation the correct approach should be: this may or may not be true, lets investigate carefully and “test the spirits.” Not “ipso facto this has not received approval yet or has been addressed by the church, therefore I will condemen it and avoid it.”

That has been the mindset towards all prophets in he OT. Jesus himself faced the full force of this with the Pharisees. “We already have the Law of Moses, we have no need for your revelation Jesus!”

I’ll close with this: be prudent, but not overly skeptical, because some revelations may be authentic. What if God is desperately trying to communicate something to the world and will be the cause of salvation and consolation to some souls, and you turn them away from that revelation without even investigating the writings yourself? You will have to answer to God for that! So be prudent.

I do not believe her revelations will ever be approved. The local Imprimatur means nothing. I have all her volumes and some of the messages say negative things about the Pope, bishops and priests. That is a sign they are false.

 

[300WhiteKnights]

Really? I don’t recall her ever saying negative about the pope. In fact when Benedict resigned she wrote: " Clearly the Holy Spirit is leading and protecting all. Perhaps the Lord will take our profound gratitude for our beloved Pope and with it grant graces of happiness and peace to him as he concludes this extraordinary fruitful period of his life. Together with the holy father, we ask For God’s blessing and protection on the man who is to come after."

Perhaps you are referring to her belief in the authenticity of the garabandal apparitions where Mary was to have been reported to say, " many priests, bishops, and cardinals are on the road to perdition and are taking many souls with them." I don’t find sayings like this to be problematic, even though they are shocking, because there is nothing that goes against the deposit of faith in that. I mean, just Look at the state of the clergy today in Europe. A seminarian in Spain told me that it was reported that 70% of Germany’s priests do not pray or have a rigorous spiritual life.

 

[Evania]

Thank you everyone for the many responses. I will speak to our pastor about this. I found out yesterday that he is away on pilgrimage, but I’ll make an appointment to see him as soon as he returns.

To 300WhiteKnights:

I am in all sincerity not eager to condemn any private message. I admit that I haven’t heard anything about “Anne”, so I felt I should ask. You had asked that if they are not against the faith and if they help people, then what’s the problem? My answer is that these books are purporting to be the Voice of God and they are situated right at the entrance of our Adoration Chapel where Our Lord is present Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity. If someone wants to bring a copy of private revelation from home, I think they should be free to do so. Should it be disseminated by anonymous followers of various private revelations in so sacred a location without the possible knowledge of the parish priest? The question was whether it was appropriate that these books should be stocked and restocked at the entrance of our chapel when, although it may be “good” or “helpful”, it still may not be Divine Revelation. I wanted to get other peoples thoughts on this as I’ve never encountered this situation before. While this is situated at eye level at the entrance of the chapel, we also have a small shelf of books, situated below the case, which at the bottom contains Holy Scripture, other spiritual reading such as books written by the saints along with modern authors and other prayer books that in the meantime are literally collecting dust. Where as before, we would see these books left behind in the pew, we are now picking up tons of these little booklets that are left behind.

These books are all mutli-colored with upwards to 20 different topics. How tempting it is to grab one that pertains to what you have been dealing with this week. Having problems with stress or financial difficulties? Divorce Issues? Addictions? Have some questions about Purgatory? Are you a soldier or know someone who has dealt with clerical abuse? No matter, because there’s a topic given to “Anne” that is divinely inspired to help you. After all, why not grab a booklet that says “Heaven Speaks” since you’re on your way inside to pray before the Real Presence anyway? The problem remains that no matter how good and helpful they may be, they still may not be the words of Our Lord, which is what they are claiming to be, and in the meantime, the God who is really and truly present is patiently waiting to minister to the hearts of those who seek Him.

 

[Goya]

Here’s how to get the Pator’s attention, and the attention of the person leaving the booklets, or pamphlets, etc.

1. Collect all the booklets/pamphlets left around; put them in a box, together, so the volume catches attention of pastor;
2. Leave box with pastor, with a written note explaining your objection to the pamphlets.
3. Whether you do it anonymously, or sign your name to it (preferred), either way, the presentation of the literature and objection to the pastor will get his attention, and the missing pamphlets/booklets, will get the attention of the person who paid for them, and strategically located them.

…both of which, should force the issue.

JMHO/FWIW.