Perhaps your heart will be changed as well. But this can only by done by understanding what the other person has to say. When you say that a “conservative” Christian wants to vilify people because of their sexual orientation, do you think that fairly reflects the “conservative” Christian point of view?
My meeting went through years of discussion before the consensus was reached to allow gay and lesbian Quakers into the FULL life of the Meeting…including the celebration of their marriages/unions.
So basically you are contending that God allowed everybody to be in error about this for 4,000 years until the “enlightened” came along and realized it?. I would not want to worship a god that was that inept.
Truth does not change…being homosexual is a natural God created variation of humanity…humans sometime take a long time to understand the purposes and will of God.
That sheds some light on her treatment of the incident in “Christ the Lord: The Road to Cana” wherein two young boys are accused of homosexual behavior. You’d have to read it to see what I mean.
You are still contending that God allowed everybody to be an error about such an important issue for 4,000 years. Again that implies a very very inept God. God was perfectly capable of revealing to the Jews 4,000 years ago that homosexuality was a normal. What you have done is stated that every body before us was wrong based on the mores of a specific culture at a specific point in time.
God is a God of progressive revelation. Just as I do not believe it was God who told the Hebrews to enter Jericho and slaughter every man woman and child…I do not believe it was God who has spoken on this subject…it was tragically fallen, sinful humanity in their ignorance. The message of diversity was long in getting through our mind-blind understanding of the natural world…we are now beginning to understand the wonderful diversity of God’s creation…including the diversity of sexual orientation.
So…theology by democracy? Hmmm…pretty sure Christianity is set up more like a benevolent dictator than a democracy, but
I’m curious what makes you think that sexuality is well understood today. Tell me why it is that some are drawn to hetero relationships, and some to homo. If the subject is well understood, the differences ought to be easily found, documented, and repeatable, with no dissension amongst researchers. Researchers can’t even decide definitively when life begins, yet that is the most important function of sexuality, so with all the dissension on something as obvious as that, how could the ‘soft sciences’ of psychology and psychriatry even come close? You can’t dissect a mind.
Again…because Christians believe that two men, or two women CANNOT marry each other. They may have a civil union, but a civil union does not a marriage make. It’s like a square circle or a trainable cat-simply not possible. Marriage is a covenant between between God and man and woman. The end. Not my rules, not ‘our’ rules, His rules. He is permitted such liberties, all things considered.
Emotive pleas. Hard logic and Scripture and Tradition, please. Or are you going to have the same tears and pleas for Catholics who were enslaved and tortured and martyred for their faith? Or is that ‘different’?
Could it be because you don’t understand that we too, love them? Condoning and encouraging, as I said before, that which will lead to their damnation IS. NOT. LOVE. It’s no more love than a child spoilt by a parent who cannot say no is loved.
Is this supposed to be an apology of sorts?
Again, more emotive logic. I hate to break it to you, but those folks that beat up your friend? They weren’t Christian. Christian is as Christian does, and to paint all of them with the same stroke based on the actions of a few is as fallacious as your statement that All prejudice is aimed at WHO they are.
Emotive theology at work. Nobody is denying anyone of ANY human rights; merely the sacrament of marriage. A priest cannot receive it; A person who is functionally unable to consummate marriage cannot receive it; A homosexual person entering into a relationship with another of the same gender cannot receive it.
What you mean we are all beginning to understand? We’re beginning to understand that God does not love us enough to lay out morality in a clear manner for all men of all time? We’re beginning to understand the morality is based on election or upon the musings of a group of people who around and decide how much smarter they are than everybody else?
Yes I do…I just reject that the Catholic church has any monopoly on it.So…theology by democracy? Hmmm…pretty sure Christianity is set up more like a benevolent dictator than a democracy, but
No, Friends do not vote about issues…we discuss and pray and seek the leading of God…and when the “Sense of the Meeting” is such that we can make a decision which does not marginalize any Friend…do we move ahead. We do not have a democracy form of government either. We listen to the Light and act on that decision.
I’m curious what makes you think that sexuality is well understood today. Tell me why it is that some are drawn to hetero relationships, and some to homo. If the subject is well understood, the differences ought to be easily found, documented, and repeatable, with no dissension amongst researchers. Researchers can’t even decide definitively when life begins, yet that is the most important function of sexuality, so with all the dissension on something as obvious as that, how could the ‘soft sciences’ of psychology and psychriatry even come close? You can’t dissect a mind.
Sexuality is not FULLY UNDERSTOOD even today…but a greater bit more of sexuality is known about today than in ages past. Now we know that the man’s “seed” is only 1/2 of the genetic make-up used to create a life…that was not understood in Biblical times…the male “seed” was planted into the woman like a seed into fertile ground…at one time it was believed that the male “seed” was a complete human being in and of itself.
Again…because Christians believe that two men, or two women CANNOT marry each other. They may have a civil union, but a civil union does not a marriage make. It’s like a square circle or a trainable cat-simply not possible. Marriage is a covenant between between God and man and woman. The end. Not my rules, not ‘our’ rules, His rules. He is permitted such liberties, all things considered.
No, not all Christians believe that…I am a Christian and I do not believe it. God joins two people together…most times opposite couples…but same-sex couples as well…I do not share the Catholic belief of sexuality…but I still am a Christian…and I and other Christians are seeking to establish and assist our gay brothers and sisters in their quest for equality and social justice.
Emotive pleas. Hard logic and Scripture and Tradition, please. Or are you going to have the same tears and pleas for Catholics who were enslaved and tortured and martyred for their faith? Or is that ‘different’?
Yes…we must not allow those “emotive pleas” to sway us in any way. The passages which are used to condemn homosexuality do not address the issue of homosexuality as understood today. Leviticus was written to separate the emerging Hebrew nation away from the pagan practices of their neighbors. Paul was addressing similar issues of pagan religous practices and culture…he did not address homosexuality as understood today.
Could it be because you don’t understand that we too, love them? Condoning and encouraging, as I said before, that which will lead to their damnation IS. NOT. LOVE. It’s no more love than a child spoilt by a parent who cannot say no is loved. Is this supposed to be an apology of sorts?
Friend. you have never spoken truer words.
Again…because Christians believe that two men, or two women CANNOT marry each other. They may have a civil union, but a civil union does not a marriage make. It’s like a square circle or a trainable cat-simply not possible. Marriage is a covenant between between God and man and woman. The end. Not my rules, not ‘our’ rules, His rules. He is permitted such liberties, all things considered.
I am a Christian…I do believe that gay people have the inate right to marry…the states that allow samep-sex marriage USE marriage…I agree…marriage is a covenant between God and a couple…we do not disagree that marriage is not a covenant.
Emotive theology at work. Nobody is denying anyone of ANY human rights; merely the sacrament of marriage. A priest cannot receive it; A person who is functionally unable to consummate marriage cannot receive it; A homosexual person entering into a relationship with another of the same gender cannot receive it.
**Your belief in the “sacrament” of marriage…not mine. Why can’t mine be honored equally with yours? **
Do you believe in absolute Truth?
Of course it is clear that cruelty to anyone for any reason is not something that can ever be Christianly justified, and that includes cruelty to gays and lesbians. But it does not follow from the fact that gays and lesbians are treated badly by ignorant people that sodomy is an acceptable practice. Dialogue is important, but only works if we address the question at hand directly.
I’m totally appropriating this.Slim to none, and Slim just got sick.
Doesn’t sound Christian to me at all. Sounds like Westboro Baptist Church, which is not really a church, and not really Christian. They are one guy’s family, basically. …one CRAZY guy, at that.
So many lies about the Church. About conservatism. About the Eternal Word.
How does she think she can follow Christ if she does not believe His promise to guide His church into all truth? St. Anne, pray for us!