Anniversary when not in a valid marriage question

[MJJean]

Most of you know I was married before, divorced, remarried a Catholic who had fallen away, and then he came back home this past spring and I am in the process of converting. I have applied for annulment and am waiting to be able to have my marriage convalidated. We are very sure the annulment will happen due to the circumstances surrounding my first attempt at marriage, which was really no attempt at all. Very long story there.

Anyways, every Sunday at the end of Mass we first acknowledge birthdays and anniversaries and then move on to the announcements. The folks celebrating birthdays stand and give their names, we sing Happy Birthday and then those celebrating anniversaries are asked to stand and state how long they have been married which is followed by a round of applause.

This December 9th is our 11th wedding anniversary. Only the priest, the Sister who has been helping with RCIA and one or two other people know our marriage situation. We volunteer pretty regularly and participate in RCIA and Confirmation group activities and retreats. We have been introduced to the congregation as a married couple.

So, what do you think? Should we stand and have our anniversary acknowledged or just keep quiet until after the convalidation?

 

[PietroPaolo]

What do I think? I think all the focus on the congregation in the sanctuary after Mass is regretful to begin with. You sing Happy Birthday in church every week? Rounds of applause? I wonder what Pope Benedict would say…

“Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment”

Or Pope Pius X…

“It is not fitting to applaud the servant in the house of his Master.”

Granted this after Mass, but come on.

As for your situation, I went through a convalidation myself a couple years ago. We don’t have the same kind of atmosphere in our parish that you have, but we opted to only tell close family, friends, and people that were in similar situations (new evangelization and all).

I don’t think you’ll find an official stance taken by the Church, so it is a bit of a judgement call.

 

[Memaw]

Most of you know I was married before, divorced, remarried a Catholic who had fallen away, and then he came back home this past spring and I am in the process of converting. I have applied for annulment and am waiting to be able to have my marriage convalidated. We are very sure the annulment will happen due to the circumstances surrounding my first attempt at marriage, which was really no attempt at all. Very long story there.

Anyways, every Sunday at the end of Mass we first acknowledge birthdays and anniversaries and then move on to the announcements. The folks celebrating birthdays stand and give their names, we sing Happy Birthday and then those celebrating anniversaries are asked to stand and state how long they have been married which is followed by a round of applause.

This December 9th is our 11th wedding anniversary. Only the priest, the Sister who has been helping with RCIA and one or two other people know our marriage situation. We volunteer pretty regularly and participate in RCIA and Confirmation group activities and retreats. We have been introduced to the congregation as a married couple.

So, what do you think? Should we stand and have our anniversary acknowledged or just keep quiet until after the convalidation?

If your first “marriage” is annuled, that means it wasn’t a real marrage in the first place so validating your now “marriage” will be like a “Healing at the Roots.” (Can’t remember the latin term). It will validate your marriage back to Dec. 9th, 11 years ago. So your anniversary will be the same. Thats the way the Priest explained it to my sister many years ago. I agree that for the them to expect everyone to acknowledge their birthday and Ann, is a bit to much. I would rather see them have a Mass said once a month for all those having Birthdays and Anniversaries that month, God Bless, Memaw

 

[Miss_Felicity]

What do I think? I think all the focus on the congregation in the sanctuary after Mass is regretful to begin with. You sing Happy Birthday in church every week? Rounds of applause? I wonder what Pope Benedict would say…

“Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment”

Or Pope Pius X…

“It is not fitting to applaud the servant in the house of his Master.”

Granted this after Mass, but come on.

I did not know this. The first parish I ever attended used to also acknowledge Birthdays and Anniversaries. My Parish is too large for that but we applaud sometimes after the choir sings an especially moving selection, sometimes people stand up and applaud. Our Associate Paster has had us give our Choir another round of applause because they are that good. I didn’t know this was a bad thing shrug

 

[MJJean]

If your first “marriage” is annuled, that means it wasn’t a real marrage in the first place so validating your now “marriage” will be like a “Healing at the Roots.” (Can’t remember the latin term). It will validate your marriage back to Dec. 9th, 11 years ago. So your anniversary will be the same. Thats the way the Priest explained it to my sister many years ago. I agree that for the them to expect everyone to acknowledge their birthday and Ann, is a bit to much. I would rather see them have a Mass said once a month for all those having Birthdays and Anniversaries that month, God Bless, Memaw

Thanks, Meemaw, but Radical Sanation is not an option for us. Radical Sanation is typically only used when one spouse refuses to participate in a convalidation or is actively hostile to the Catholic faith. We don’t qualify. I was hoping the annulment would be done by now, no such luck. So, we’re either going to convalidate as soon as possible after the annulment or wait until Dec. 9 next year to convalidate and just celebrate two anniversaries.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I vote yes. Here’s why:

Wedding anniversaries are like badges of honor. Each anniversary marks another year of you and your husband getting through whatever life throws at you together. And life is hard! You committed yourself to getting through it together 11 years ago, and you deserve to be able to say that. One of the many things that you have gone through together is conversion and convalidation, once again, those are big things to do together. Be proud.

I can’t imagine that the priest or sister would want you to stay seated. I’m pretty sure that the sight of a happy couple who is working to make things right together will make them very happy.

 

[maryjk]

Convalidated couple here.

We have been married 20+ years. Civilly.

We have been married 10 1/2 years. In the church.

When someone asks how long we have been married I tell them 20+ years. Most everyone knows we had a Convalidation. In fact, we, as a couple, celebrate both days.

If someone happens to mention my anniversary at Mass, (others announce your birthday/anniversary, without the singing.) they say the total years, 20+.

So, with all of that, if you want to announce it, go for it.

 

[pianistclare]

What do I think? I think all the focus on the congregation in the sanctuary after Mass is regretful to begin with. You sing Happy Birthday in church every week? Rounds of applause? I wonder what Pope Benedict would say…

“Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment”

Or Pope Pius X…

“It is not fitting to applaud the servant in the house of his Master.”

Granted this after Mass, but come on.

As for your situation, I went through a convalidation myself a couple years ago. We don’t have the same kind of atmosphere in our parish that you have, but we opted to only tell close family, friends, and people that were in similar situations (new evangelization and all).

I don’t think you’ll find an official stance taken by the Church, so it is a bit of a judgement call.

Oh man, I agree. My parish does all this. A clear majority of the people love this. The few times I have mentioned that I’m not pleased about it, I have been roundly scolded for being stogy and old fashioned, unwilling to embrace the Parish family. Please. Quickly moving through the purifying of the vessels, a very brief sit down, a quick post communion prayer, and then it’s off to the announcements and the birthdays, visitors, etc. If we were given some more time to pray post communion…a chance to kneel and speak to Jesus privately for a few minutes…that would be great. I wish we could move to THAT. I think our new-ish pastor is working on it. It takes a long time to de-program a parish that adopts these things. They think you are “taking something away from them.”
But, I digress.

If you would like to celebrate your anniversary, and your Pastor approves, I guess I would not deny you the good will. God Bless you.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

My wife and I solved the problem by having the convalidation performed on the same day as our original wedding date.

 

[underacloud]

So, what do you think? Should we stand and have our anniversary acknowledged or just keep quiet until after the convalidation?

While you seem very confident of an annulment, and presumably have good reasons for such confidence, I think it’s appropriate to wait until after your convalidation. The convalidation is when the Church recognises your marriage, so to celebrate your anniversary publicly in the Church before that time is something of a contradiction.

But if your preist knows your situation, no doubt he could advise you on this issue.

 

[masuwerte]

I would vote for the first option. Celebrate the anniversary of your civil wedding. It’s worth celebrating. My wife and I had a civil wedding about two years before our convalidation, and we celebrate the anniversary of the civil wedding every year. It will be 12 years, later this month. You could celebrate the anniversary of your convalidation as well.

 

[MJJean]

My wife and I solved the problem by having the convalidation performed on the same day as our original wedding date.

I’d like to do that, too, but I’m not sure I want to wait that long. If the annulment were final in the spring or summer waiting until December would be torture!

Thanks for your replies, everyone, feel free to keep responding. I’m still debating.

 

[maryjk]

My wife and I solved the problem by having the convalidation performed on the same day as our original wedding date.

Ours was 6 months apart. Well, 11 years and 6 months.

Neither of us was waiting for an annulment, but once the paperwork was approved by the bishop I didn’t want to wait.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

Keep quiet until after the convalidation. At this time, it isn’t a valid marriage, so applauding the anniversary would be akin to applauding the anniversary of a cohabiting couples moving in date. If you were cohabiting, you wouldn’t stand up right? So just wait, and then think of how great it will feel to be able to stand when the marriage is valid.

If you are uncomfortable explaining the situation about the convalidation to people who might ask (would anyone know enough to ask why you didn’t stand?), you could just say you didn’t feel comfortable drawing attention to yourself at that moment. You don’t have to give big explanations why.

 

[Demetra2]

What do I think? I think all the focus on the congregation in the sanctuary after Mass is regretful to begin with. You sing Happy Birthday in church every week? Rounds of applause? I wonder what Pope Benedict would say…

“Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment”

Or Pope Pius X…

“It is not fitting to applaud the servant in the house of his Master.”

Granted this after Mass, but come on.

As for your situation, I went through a convalidation myself a couple years ago. We don’t have the same kind of atmosphere in our parish that you have, but we opted to only tell close family, friends, and people that were in similar situations (new evangelization and all).

I don’t think you’ll find an official stance taken by the Church, so it is a bit of a judgement call.

I have to agree with this position. At my church we applaud the choir after Mass and the priest has his dog join him in front of the altar. While I am not offended by this I have often wondered if it is a bit irreverent. The dog is well behaved thank goodness! I think all of this can get too carried away and singing Happy Birthday and telling how many years married is too much info and takes away from the Mass itself.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

So, what do you think? Should we stand and have our anniversary acknowledged or just keep quiet until after the convalidation?

I would stay quiet and do it when you marriage is valid. I just don’t think it would be honest to do it now, while you are still in an invalid marriage.

 

[dans0622]

If your first “marriage” is annuled, that means it wasn’t a real marrage in the first place so validating your now “marriage” will be like a “Healing at the Roots.” (Can’t remember the latin term). It will validate your marriage back to Dec. 9th, 11 years ago. So your anniversary will be the same. Thats the way the Priest explained it to my sister many years ago. …

Hello,

The priest, not uncommonly when it comes to the topic of a sanation, was mistaken. That’s not what a sanation does or means. If a marriage is sanated, it becomes valid the moment the sanation is granted (canon 1161.2).

As to the topic of the thread, you are not married as far as the Church is concerned.

Dan

 

[Memaw]

Hello,

The priest, not uncommonly when it comes to the topic of a sanation, was mistaken. That’s not what a sanation does or means. If a marriage is sanated, it becomes valid the moment the sanation is granted (canon 1161.2).

As to the topic of the thread, you are not married as far as the Church is concerned.

Dan

Ask an apologist about that. The priest that told my sister, was an older priest and a very holy man who did know what he was talking about. God Bless, Memaw

 

[nodito]

While you seem very confident of an annulment, and presumably have good reasons for such confidence, I think it’s appropriate to wait until after your convalidation. The convalidation is when the Church recognises your marriage, so to celebrate your anniversary publicly in the Church before that time is something of a contradiction.

But if your preist knows your situation, no doubt he could advise you on this issue.

I think this is the best answer.

 

[dans0622]

Ask an apologist about that. The priest that told my sister, was an older priest and a very holy man who did know what he was talking about. God Bless, Memaw

Pardon my apparent arrogance. I don’t think any of the apologists know more about the topic than I do…thanks to my canon law professors.

Dan