annulements

[Jackiejustice]

I submited a question in this regard to “ask the apologist” link but my question wasn’t anwered before it was already late. So, I would like feedback in regard to what resulted.

My ex-husband is seeking an annulement. I am Catholic, he is not, we were not married in the Catholic Church much to my families dismay. We were married 10years, The marriage ended due to his infidelity,at the same time I was seeking infertility tests. His infidelity resulted in the birth of a child out of wedlock, He left town and has a monitary judgement against him in the state he lives in along with the state we were married.in. This information is factual and not the ravings of a bitter ex-wife.

I sought advise from the tribunal council in city I live in. I was advised to contact my church where I was baptised. I instructed them not to give out my baptismal certificate to anyone other than myself. Because we weren’t married in the Catholic Church, he is seeking a written annulement. If I didn’t provide the my baptismal information, he would then have to seek an annulement via the tribunal council.

Unfortunately, the church I was baptised in, gave my information to the church he wants to get married in. How did they find my information? Why was it given out? I feel like my gift from my parents and God, the sacrament of baptism was treated like inter- office mail. With no regard to my wishes.

I would like to understand why, someones backround isn’t looked into. Or at the least discussed. Does his furture wife and the church know the truth about him? Do they care? Our public courts don’t want to know who did what to whom. Now the Catholic Church does the same.

Was there a marriage, yes, sure at one time, Is there won now, no. However, It would be nice to at least ask what I thought. Then take it from there. Wether or not he is married in the church or not, I don’t really care. What I do care about was how something as personal to my as my Baptismal certicate was just tossed around.

 

[Joan_M]

I am somewhat confused here. You are a Catholic, your ex-husband is not. He is seeking an annulment, and requested your Baptismal Certificate - presumably to show evidence that you are a Catholic and, since you presumably married outside the Church without the necessary dispensation, there was never any Sacramental marriage. This is correct - if this information is correct, there was no Sacrament.

You are offended that such “personal” information was given out without your permission. This is what confuses me - Baptism is not a private matter. It is the public celebration of a Sacrament in the Church. The information is on record in the Church and can be used for any valid purpose. It is not your private information. It was information legally required for purpose of declaration that a marriage was not a Sacrament. I do not think you have any reason to be offended.

Further, because you are a Catholic, there is no need for your ex-husband to approach a Tribunal - your marriage was without proper form. The production of the Baptism Certificate makes this clear. Why would you force him to go through a Tribunal? On your own words, the marriage is over. My perception is that you are trying to spite him - I could be wrong.

And, what about yourself? If you ever want to get married (I will not say again, since you have not been married, truly), you would need to have that marriage declared null. Once your ex-husband gets the declaration, it also applies to you - you will then be free to marry. Perhaps it would be well to examine your conscience on your motives for wanting to make things difficult for him.

If I am wrong about this, I am sure someone will jump in and inform us.

 

[pnewton]

Jackiejustice:

Unfortunately, the church I was baptised in, gave my information to the church he wants to get married in. How did they find my information? Why was it given out?

Because it is all the same church.

Joan has all the facts correct, as I understand them. Remember that all this tribunal/annulment stuff is just a matter of fact as opposed to blame. I would hope that the priest in his new parish would address all the issues that would affect the sacramentality (?) of the marriage.

I can understand why you have been offended. The Church must look with forgiveness on any repentant sinner, and as one offended, you too are called to forgiveness. If you find this difficult it is certainly understandable, but I would encourage you to talk to a priest about how you might forgive.

 

[Jackiejustice]

wow,I just got my head bit of royally.

First, I asked for advise from the Archdiocese where I live, With deep discussion with the Canonist of the MetropolitanTrubiunal office I contacted the church were I was baptised.

Second, I quess the Catholic church doesn’t really want to know anything about whom they are marrying, even if the aren’t a person with good moral values. So hence tha old additage, “Forgive and Forget”

Third, I hope he has been honest with himself, God and the women he is marrying. Yes, your correct, it was painful, I hope it doesn’t happen again. It is only his 3rd marriage. The say “Three’s a charm” And with the churches blessing, you bet it will work.

Finally, Here is an expert from literative I had recieved in regards to ennulements for the archdiocese:
What is a documentary case?
“The respondent in such cases is cited, and invited to participate with a response from or depostion,” Didn’t happen here. Will just keep taking, taking and taking.

I also hope he is making a sizeable contribution to the chuch. Goodness he should since he hasn’t filled his legal obligations via a divorce judgement. Which by the way is 21 years old.

,Am I bitter, hey, I had let all of this go for 21 years, never went after the money he owed me, Worked my butt of going to school full time, working 2 jobs. Presently, I am, Vice President of Sales, But having him surface after all those years, and taking one me thing, Besides, it was only interoffice mail. What should it matter.

I had just started attending Church after many years of staying away. To painful, mixed feeling, Many questions, I have been working to resolve those issues…well it is Sunday morning. Will I go, I don’t think so, Will I go in the future…All I know is, I don’t seem to find a hole lot of commpassion. Maybe the Assemblies of God have it right, just ask to be saved…and puff…it is done. Looks like the Catholic church is doing the same.

 

[Chatter163]

Even though the husband is not Catholic, he appears to be marrying a Catholic, and thus needs to show that he is not impeded by a prior bond. His prior marriage to the Catholic poster here is a doumentary annulment (note the spelling) case, i.e., a defect of form. Usually this is is addressed by showing the marriage and divorce certificates, which he presumably already has, and the bapstimal certficate of the Catholic party, which has recently obtained. This establishes that a marriage of a Catholic was celebrated outside of the Church and is thus an invalid marriage. As has been pointed out, the record of baptism is a public one and one cannot hide it, especially not within the Church. There is nothing private about baptism, even when it is celebrated privately.

The fact that the OP wanted to keep the record of her baptism a secret, along with the other remarks posted here–despite claims that they are not intended to be vindictive–appear to be evidence that much work still needs to be done on forgiving and letting go. Contrary to what they OP may feel at this time, such a release would not deny the hurts of yesteryear, nor would it excuse the misdeeds of the former spouse, but it would accomplish the act of forgiveness that is obviously necessary.

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Dear Jackie,

Let’s back up a minute here. Your ex-husband is as entitled to justice as you are. He has every right to petition the Church for an annulment. If you were a Catholic and the marriage took place outside the Church and there was no dispensation for this, then there was no marriage as far as the Church is concerned. It’s called “lack of form” meaning that, as a Catholic, you did not follow “canonical form” in regard to your marriage. Since you were obligated to do so (or get a dispensation) the marriage is invalid. Period. That’s what a documentary case is.

Anything that happened after the exchange of vows is irrelevant. Either a valid marriage was established or it wasn’t when the vows were exchanged.

Since, as has already been noted, baptism is a matter of public record, you cannot prevent the release of that information to another diocese. Thus, the Church was correct in providing that information.

I’m not sure I understand what your complaint is in this regard.

Deacon Ed

 

[Catholic2003]

Jackiejustice:

What is a documentary case?
“The respondent in such cases is cited, and invited to participate with a response from or depostion,” Didn’t happen here.

When a Catholic marries outside the Church, this is not a documentary case. It is a “lack of form” case, and does not require any notification of or response from the other party.

 

[Jackiejustice]

Thank you for all your insight.

Bottom line, I understand what has happened. Do I wonder why I am hurt after thinking I had all this put into it’s proper place? You bet.

As my priest mentioned to as we briefly spoke. It should be not be “forgive and forget” It should be “forgive and remember”
We need to know and understand if he is presently himself truthfully. We will let his priest that will marry them decide. However, the facts should be presented.

I quess, I am saddened that one even asked.

Time once again to move forward. I am thankful for a the compassion the was shown today by my parish priest. I am glad I mustard the will, courage and strenght to go to Mass

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Jackiejustice:

I submited a question in this regard to “ask the apologist” link but my question wasn’t anwered before it was already late. So, I would like feedback in regard to what resulted.

My ex-husband is seeking an annulement. I am Catholic, he is not, we were not married in the Catholic Church much to my families dismay. We were married 10years, The marriage ended due to his infidelity,at the same time I was seeking infertility tests. His infidelity resulted in the birth of a child out of wedlock, He left town and has a monitary judgement against him in the state he lives in along with the state we were married.in. This information is factual and not the ravings of a bitter ex-wife.

I sought advise from the tribunal council in city I live in. I was advised to contact my church where I was baptised. I instructed them not to give out my baptismal certificate to anyone other than myself. Because we weren’t married in the Catholic Church, he is seeking a written annulement. If I didn’t provide the my baptismal information, he would then have to seek an annulement via the tribunal council.

Unfortunately, the church I was baptised in, gave my information to the church he wants to get married in. How did they find my information? Why was it given out? I feel like my gift from my parents and God, the sacrament of baptism was treated like inter- office mail. With no regard to my wishes.

I would like to understand why, someones backround isn’t looked into. Or at the least discussed. Does his furture wife and the church know the truth about him? Do they care? Our public courts don’t want to know who did what to whom. Now the Catholic Church does the same.

Was there a marriage, yes, sure at one time, Is there won now, no. However, It would be nice to at least ask what I thought. Then take it from there. Wether or not he is married in the church or not, I don’t really care. What I do care about was how something as personal to my as my Baptismal certicate was just tossed around.

First your Baptism information was not just “tossed around”. The parish he is seeking to marry in has the obligation to assist him in the annulment process. Part of that process is the gathering of information. Your baptismal status at the time of the civil marriage is part of that information. which is not open public record but is public record within the Church. So one parish can request information from another parish in an official request.

Now if I were to walk in to your Baptismal parish and request information on your Baptism or reception of other Sacraments they would not give that information out.

 

[Jackiejustice]

So what is the point? He got it,and no carried if I was happy about him getting or not. So why did he bother to contact me in the first place? Goodness knows, it was better not knowing anything about him.

Frankly, I quess we just take people at their face value, Does anyone wonder why he has had multiple marriages even it they were or weren’t in the Catholic Church?

I will be meeting with my Parish priest to try and come to some person resolution. Because right now, I am questioning my faith.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Jackiejustice:

So what is the point? He got it,and no carried if I was happy about him getting or not. So why did he bother to contact me in the first place? Goodness knows, it was better not knowing anything about him.

Frankly, I quess we just take people at their face value, Does anyone wonder why he has had multiple marriages even it they were or weren’t in the Catholic Church?

I will be meeting with my Parish priest to try and come to some person resolution. Because right now, I am questioning my faith.

The Church will generally when someone wants to Marry in the Catholic Church look at a person with multiple marriages ( even though they may be invalid) with caution and usually requires some form of counseling before allowing them to attempt another Marriage.