Annulled Baptism?

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I am and have been a Catholic for 39 years. I have received all of my sacraments including marriage 15 years ago.

I was wondering if I could have clarification on a question of mine.

My husband and I are the Catholic Godparents of our niece who is now 14. She was baptised as a baby in a Catholic church. We have had a falling out with our goddaughter’s mother (my husband’s sister) and she has stated that we are no longer our niece’s Godparents and that she had her baptism annulled and that she was re-baptised recently? Is this something that can trully be done? Because we made a promise to God the day she was baptised and I believe that cannot be changed. I also believe that in our hearts and before God we will Always be her God parents. Could you please clarify the Catholic rules for this? And is there anything we can do about it? Do Godparents have any rights?

I Sincerely appreciate it.

Sincerely,
Lisa Brody
 
brody110 said:
I am and have been a Catholic for 39 years. I have received all of my sacraments including marriage 15 years ago.

I was wondering if I could have clarification on a question of mine.

My husband and I are the Catholic Godparents of our niece who is now 14. She was baptised as a baby in a Catholic church. We have had a falling out with our goddaughter’s mother (my husband’s sister) and she has stated that we are no longer our niece’s Godparents and that she had her baptism annulled and that she was re-baptised recently? Is this something that can trully be done? Because we made a promise to God the day she was baptised and I believe that cannot be changed. I also believe that in our hearts and before God we will Always be her God parents. Could you please clarify the Catholic rules for this? And is there anything we can do about it? Do Godparents have any rights?

I Sincerely appreciate it.

Sincerely,
Lisa Brody
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Ohhhkay … if I understand this correctly, some woman claims to have had a baptism (which was canonically performed and valid) annulled because she changed her mind and has now decided hates the godparents???

First time I’ve heard of anything so absurd: as far as I know, (and I do know a bit, but I cannot (and would not anyway) quote canon law) a baptism cannot be "annulled". As long as the baptism was performed according to the rites of the the Holy Church, it is valid and will remain so despite the woman’s protest.
 
Thank you so much. I thought it could not be annulled, but I just wanted to clarify. Thank you so much!

God Bless.
 
I work for a Church and a few years ago had a call from a woman wanting her son’s Godparents taken off because she didn’t like them anymore. I told her it could not be done. Then she said she was going to have her son rebaptized. I told her that could not be done either since baptism imparts an indelible character on the soul. When I went to look up the record I found out her son was 27 years old. I can imagine her telling her son that he was going to be rebaptized because his mom didn’t like his godparents anymore.
 
Hi Lisa - as I understand it, one can only annul what actually never validly took place. One hears the term frequently in relation to marriage, but to seek an annullment is to investigate whether or not one was actually married in the first place (for various reasons, for example, if there was not consent from both parties, or if one was still married…). I think it is highly unlikely - perhaps impossible - that the baptism didn’t actually occur. The form is straightforward - the parents present the child for baptism and “the essential rite of Baptism consists in immersing the candidate in water or pouring water on his head, while pronouncing the invocation of the Most Holy Trinity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit” [CCC 1278]. If the rite of baptism was carried out correctly, which I assume it was, it cannot be annulled. According to the Catechism, Baptism leaves an indellible spiritual mark on the baptised person and the baptism cannot be repeated.

Just an afterthought: does your sister-in-law claim that her daughter has been re-baptised into the Catholic Church, or has she been received into another denomination? If so, though her original baptism cannot be erased, in your sister-in-law’s eyes it may be annulled and she may well have been “re-baptised”.
 
brody110 said:
I am and have been a Catholic for 39 years. I have received all of my sacraments including marriage 15 years ago.

I was wondering if I could have clarification on a question of mine.

My husband and I are the Catholic Godparents of our niece who is now 14. She was baptised as a baby in a Catholic church. We have had a falling out with our goddaughter’s mother (my husband’s sister) and she has stated that we are no longer our niece’s Godparents and that she had her baptism annulled and that she was re-baptised recently? Is this something that can trully be done? Because we made a promise to God the day she was baptised and I believe that cannot be changed. I also believe that in our hearts and before God we will Always be her God parents. Could you please clarify the Catholic rules for this? And is there anything we can do about it? Do Godparents have any rights?

I Sincerely appreciate it.

Sincerely,
Lisa Brody
Click to expand...
Look at it this way. I am 40 years old and my mother cannot have her pregnancy in which she carried me terminated. It is the same with a childs baptism. HOWEVER I must ask…did your sister in law leave the church for another denomination? It is not unheard of for protestants to re-baptize people who left the Catholic church…even though it is a false baptism.

On a side note…I hope not to offend…but I asked my 4th grader your question and he gave me the correct answer regarding the permanency of baptism…perhaps you should consider a course in basic Catechism…or maybe pick up a copy of the CCC. It is never to late to learn the faith…especially the basic elementary articles.
 
. . . If I didn’t know the kind of crazy things that humans are capable of doing, especially drama-mamas or drama-papas, I’d have thought this had to be something out of the World Weekly News or the Onion. I would think any priest with any sense would refuse to “re-baptize” anyone, [Edited]

Things like this are so absurd, you have to laugh and shake your head over them. I needed a laugh, and it seems the Lord sent me one, in a very strange way…
 
brody110 said:
I am and have been a Catholic for 39 years. I have received all of my sacraments including marriage 15 years ago.

I was wondering if I could have clarification on a question of mine.

My husband and I are the Catholic Godparents of our niece who is now 14. She was baptised as a baby in a Catholic church. We have had a falling out with our goddaughter’s mother (my husband’s sister) and she has stated that we are no longer our niece’s Godparents and that she had her baptism annulled and that she was re-baptised recently? Is this something that can trully be done? Because we made a promise to God the day she was baptised and I believe that cannot be changed. I also believe that in our hearts and before God we will Always be her God parents. Could you please clarify the Catholic rules for this? And is there anything we can do about it? Do Godparents have any rights?

I Sincerely appreciate it.

Sincerely,
Lisa Brody
Click to expand...
Well yes and no. First she cannot “have” the Baptism annulled. The Bishop can find at a certain priest did not properly celebrate the Sacrament of Baptism and find that certain Baptisms celebrated by him are invalid (null). You would have been notified by the parish or diocese if this would have happened. Again your sister-in-law could not have had this done. Once a valid Baptism is celebrated nothing can be changed, Godparents cannot be substituted, removed, or added. Baptism cannot be re-celebrated, it can only be celebrated once. All you can do for your neice is pray for her and her parents.
 
brody110 said:
I My husband and I are the Catholic Godparents of our niece who is now 14. She was baptised as a baby in a Catholic church. We have had a falling out with our goddaughter’s mother (my husband’s sister) and she has stated that we are no longer our niece’s Godparents and that she had her baptism annulled and that she was re-baptised recently? Is this something that can trully be done?
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no under canon law a validly baptized person cannot be rebaptized. is it possible this person or her parents have rejected Catholicism for another religion that demands rebaptism? she certainly did not do this in a Catholic Church. Also, the godparents cannot be changed. Even if they no longer have any part in the child’s life, for whatever reason, they remain the godparents and the record may not be changed. She may choose a different confirmation sponsor when the time comes. My guess would be this person wishes for reasons best know to herself to insult the godparents and so is saying this story.
 
Re-baptism would have taken place only in another denomination that doesn’t recognize infant baptism.
I know of a case where the parents switched to a Baptist church some years after their daughter’s Catholic baptism. The mother then complained that the child’s godmother kept on sending her “Catholic stuff” on her birthday and Christmas. I pointed out, “You asked her to make a commitment; you really can’t criticize her for honoring it, even if you have changed your mind.”
We were in a position where we would have liked to choose different godparents, several years down the road. Both of our son’s godparents left the Church. One became Baptist; the other Episcopalian. Fortunately, our son’s aunt had served as an additonal witness at his baptism, and she was happy to be his sponsor at Confirmation. So he now considers her his godmother, although that isn’t technically true.
 
Marie_Duffy said:
Re-baptism would have taken place only in another denomination that doesn’t recognize infant baptism.
I know of a case where the parents switched to a Baptist church some years after their daughter’s Catholic baptism. The mother then complained that the child’s godmother kept on sending her “Catholic stuff” on her birthday and Christmas. I pointed out, “You asked her to make a commitment; you really can’t criticize her for honoring it, even if you have changed your mind.”
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It is specifically at times like that when the Godparent’s role is called upon. Their job is to provide faith formation for the child in case the parents are unable- or unwilling- to do so. They should not agree to be godparents if they don’t think this is a responsibility they can take on- and parents should not have their baby baptized if they are about to leave the Church.
Marie_Duffy said:
We were in a position where we would have liked to choose different godparents, several years down the road. Both of our son’s godparents left the Church. One became Baptist; the other Episcopalian. Fortunately, our son’s aunt had served as an additonal witness at his baptism, and she was happy to be his sponsor at Confirmation. So he now considers her his godmother, although that isn’t technically true.
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Many people choose godparents for the wrong reasons. A person being a good friend at the time, or a relative is not a good reason to choose someone as a godparent. It should be someone who is very strong in their faith- someone you look up to as an inspiration on matters of faith. They should be someone who will know your child as they grow up, and encourage them in the Faith. They should be someone who has faith you want your child to imitate, and who you want to teach your child the Faith if for some reason you are unable to (and they would be able to do this). The role of Godparent isn’t just a way to be nice to one of your friends and give them an honorary relationship with one of your kids. It is a real relationship, and a very important one.
 
Both of these people SEEMED strong in the Faith at the time. They both were about 25 (so was I), and were actively participating Catholics. However, in retrospect, they could be seen to be a bit lukewarm. One left the Church when she married an Episcopalian and the other decided he was mad about things that had happened when he was younger. I wonder. Should prospective godparents be interviewed by a priest, who would not have the emotional ties the parents do? We certainly did not believe ourselves to be choosing irresponsibly. Looking back still further, my husband’s godfather, also a cousin, apparently did not take the responsibility at all seriously!
 
Marie_Duffy said:
Both of these people SEEMED strong in the Faith at the time. They both were about 25 (so was I), and were actively participating Catholics. However, in retrospect, they could be seen to be a bit lukewarm. One left the Church when she married an Episcopalian and the other decided he was mad about things that had happened when he was younger. I wonder. Should prospective godparents be interviewed by a priest, who would not have the emotional ties the parents do? We certainly did not believe ourselves to be choosing irresponsibly. Looking back still further, my husband’s godfather, also a cousin, apparently did not take the responsibility at all seriously!
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It would be great if the priest could interview them and say yay or nay but that’s not likely to happen. It would be great if parents understood why they’re choosing godparents but as is shown to us every time we do baptismal preparation couples resent being told what to look for in godparents and even resent being told they have to be Catholic.

You’d think it would be obvious, wouldn’t you, but every time we get variations on the same question “But they’re our best friends why can’t we have them??” When they repeat the question I usually will reply “Would you expect a Mason to sponsor someone to be a Knight of Columbus?” “No? Why not?” “Because they’re not members? Then why would you expect someone to sponsor your child into a community to which they don’t belong?”

That said, my godparents were 10 & 12 when I was born so the idea that they would ‘assist my parents’ was ludicrous. My brothers’ godparents were good for a present at Christmas but that’s the only way in which they were ‘visible’. My dad was godfather for about 30 kids in our village, most of whom he wouldn’t have recognized if he’d stepped on them. He just happened to be the guy that everyone saw at church so they all asked him to be godfather.
 
My husband and I teach confirmation class and there are definite requirements for confirmation sponsors. However, these requirements (regular attendance at Mass, observing the laws of the Church) would have been met by the godparents we chose who later left the Church.
The analogy I use in instructing students about selection of a sponsor is this: You are choosing someone who can assist you in living as a mature Catholic. You need to choose someone who can do that. If you wanted to learn how to be a better soccer goalie you would not come to me, as I know nothing about it!
 
The problem I see in our parish is that the baptismal preparation team takes a very lax attitude towards sponsors – indeed towards the parents’ obligations too.

I almost choked the first time I heard one say to the parents “We all have to make compromises – my husband insists that we go to the cabin and I have to negotiate going to Mass every couple of weeks.” Then she turned to me and said “I’m sure you had to negotiate with your kids when it came to going to Mass on Sunday.” “Er, no, where Mass was concerned there was no negotiation, compromise or debate, we went to Mass. That’s what we do as Catholics.”

This is a woman who misses Mass for 1/2 the winter because her sons are in hockey and in this town that’s the main religion. Why she was picked for the baptismal prep team I have no idea. But then again, the sister who was on it until recently usually said in each class, “The rules say that the godparents are supposed to be practicing but we don’t worry about that.” Then what exactly SHOULD we worry about?
 
Assuming her baptism was valid when it was done (and from your post it sounds like it was), it cannot be undone – no matter how much your niece’s mother (or your niece for that matter) may want it to be undone.

Baptism, like Confirmation and the consummation of the Sacrament of Marriage, leaves an indelible mark on your soul. No matter how many times you renounce the faith, leave the church, get re-baptised, say you’re divorcing yourself from your faith, etc, etc – you get the idea – once you are baptised into the Catholic Church, you are a child of God, marked forever for Him and NOTHING can undo that.

The best thing you can do for your niece (and her mother) is to honour your promise as her godparents and pray for her and her parents. Pray for her and whenever you’re around her, show her the love of Christ, instruct her the best way you can (perhaps give her a rosary and book on how to pray it for her baptismal birthday? that’s just one idea I have), and be there for her and her parents. You sound like you are a very devoted godmother and that, my friend, is a blessing indeed. God bless you for your dedication to the promise you made to Him!

Pax,
NFPgirl
 
I was in a situation kind of similar to this. I was baptized Catholic as a baby but I was never taught the faith even though I received first Communion I never understood who Jesus really was or that he had died for our sins. In 2003 my friend brought me back into the church and basically raised me as a Catholic my church has this wonderful program for people who are Catholic but have been away from the church and forgot church teachings or there like me who never had any teachings at all. They combine this program with the adult confirmation class. Less than a week into the process I decided to confirm once I understood what it really meant to be Catholic. By the time I confirmed I had a very good understanding of church teachings and now I help cradle Catholics understand the church. As I learned the true job of godparents I panicked because my godmother is now a fundamentalist Christian who is extremely anti-Catholic and my godfather was just a friend of my grandfather’s I barely know and he never taught me about Catholicism. I was extremely stressed because I thought my baptism was not valid. The priest assures me that unless the sacrament itself was not celebrated properly it doesn’t matter what my godparents did or did not do or whether or not minds were changed my baptism is valid and could not be redone. He also reassured me that on the day I was confirmed I erased any remaining doubt because I took control and I understood what it meant to be Catholic when I agreed and affirmed my commitment to become a full member of the Catholic Church.
 
While we are considering Baptisms and the validity, I want to know if a baptism such as the one shown in this website is valid. I am sure the Lord would say it is valid for no other reason than baptism of desire, even if all the accidents are wrong.

Firstly, holy water is water with a little pinch of salt in it. But here is seawater with a LOT of salt in it. Secondly, the baptism is not done by a priest. In case of necessity, anyone may baptise, so I guess it is valid. But what if Albert had survived? Would it be necessary to baptise him again? For what reason?

Notice he hasn’t any godparents at all. Supposing he survived, took up RCIA, became disenchanted with certain requirements and rules in the Catholic Church, can he change his mind? After all he was not sufficiently catechesized. Is this a baptism that can be annulled?

Here’s the true story, one of the most moving I have ever read:

time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,869081,00.html

Baptism on the Beach

Posted Monday, May 18, 1959

It was a sunny afternoon in San Francisco. Shirley O’Neill and Albert Kogler, 18-year-old freshmen at San Francisco State College, went for a swim off Baker’s Beach, near the Golden Gate Bridge.

They were treading water about 50 yds offshore when Al Kogler cried out. “I turned around,” Shirley said later, “and saw this big grey thing flap up into the air. I don’t know if it was a fin or a tail. I knew it was some kind of fish. There was thrashing in the water. He screamed again. He said, ‘It’s a shark! Get out of here!’”

Looking down on the ocean from the Presidio, San Francisco’s history-encrusted Army post, Master Sergeant Leo P. Day saw what happened next. "I could see the boy in the foaming red water, shouting and signaling someone to ‘go back, go back.’

Then I saw the girl, swimming toward him, completely ignoring his warning. It was the greatest exhibition of courage I have ever seen."

Shirley reached Albert and seized his hand, “but when I pulled, I could see that his arm was just hanging by a thread.” She slipped her arm around him and began to swim for the beach. When she was near enough, a fisherman threw her a line.

After they were on the sand, Shirley, a Roman Catholic, scooped up some sea water and let it run over the head of her friend (who had never been baptized and belonged to no specific faith). “I baptize thee in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost,”* said Shirley, making the sign of the Cross, and whispered to Albert, “Is that all right?”

“O.K.,” he gasped.

She told him to repeat after her the act of contrition: “0 my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended thee. I detest all my sins because I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of Hell, but most of all because they offend thee, my God, who art all good and deserving of all my love.”

Just before Albert Kogler lapsed into unconsciousness, he whispered: “I love God, and I love my mother and I love my father. Oh God, help me.” Two hours later, in the Presidio’s Letterman General Hospital, he died.

*A valid baptism in case of necessity, recognized by the Roman Catholic Church even if performed by a nonbeliever, provided that the one baptizing really “intends to perform what the church performs.”

From the May 18, 1959 issue of TIME magazine
 
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