Annulment and Cath-Prot marriage

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So a friend of mine is in a situation for which I do not know the answer.

She was baptized Episcopalian, and was married to a Methodist by an Episcopal priest. They had children, and then were divorced.

She is now in a relationship with a Roman Catholic who was previously married in the Church, and whose marriage has been annulled by the Church.

For them to be married in the Church, does she need to get an annulment?

The Episcopal Church recognizes civil divorce as the dissolution of a marriage, and does not do annulments.

My friend’s fiance seems to think that for them to be married in the Church, she too must get an annulment. But it seems strange that the Catholic Church would grant an annulment to a marriage (sacramental though it was) between two non-Catholics that was performed by a non-Catholic minister…

Any answers to this one? Thanks!
 
The simple answer is that she has to submit her marriage to the tribunal for evaluation. Since the Catholic Church recognizes as putatively valid any marriage entered into by non-Catholics following the legal requirements of the area where they live, it is then necessary for the Church to determine whether or not such a marriage was valid.

Deacon Ed
 
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chipg5:
So a friend of mine is in a situation for which I do not know the answer.

She was baptized Episcopalian, and was married to a Methodist by an Episcopal priest. They had children, and then were divorced.

She is now in a relationship with a Roman Catholic who was previously married in the Church, and whose marriage has been annulled by the Church.

For them to be married in the Church, does she need to get an annulment?

The Episcopal Church recognizes civil divorce as the dissolution of a marriage, and does not do annulments.

My friend’s fiance seems to think that for them to be married in the Church, she too must get an annulment. But it seems strange that the Catholic Church would grant an annulment to a marriage (sacramental though it was) between two non-Catholics that was performed by a non-Catholic minister…

Any answers to this one? Thanks!
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Yes her first Marriage would need to be found invalid by the Tribunal in order for her to marry a Catholic in the Catholic Chruch. The Catholic Church being the representative of Christ has authority over ALL marriage. The Episcopal Church may think that divorce is a dissolution of a marriage bond when in reality it is not.
 
Thanks guys for the response, now it makes sense. I’ll let her know.
 
I am an Episcopalian who married a divorced Catholic who left the church when she was a teenager. She later married in the Methodist Church. We were married in the Episcopal Church and our two children were baptized in that church as well. Is it possible for our family to convert to the Catholic faith. Would her first marriage need to be annulled. How would this impact our children’s baptism? The two of us as parents are concerned with where the Episcopal Church is going and have been praying about what we need to do. My wife has also been reconnecting herself with her Catholic faith from her childhood through readings and I know she regrets leaving the church as a teen. Any information would be helpful. Thanks.
 
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Cards:
I am an Episcopalian who married a divorced Catholic who left the church when she was a teenager. She later married in the Methodist Church. We were married in the Episcopal Church and our two children were baptized in that church as well. Is it possible for our family to convert to the Catholic faith. Would her first marriage need to be annulled. How would this impact our children’s baptism? The two of us as parents are concerned with where the Episcopal Church is going and have been praying about what we need to do. My wife has also been reconnecting herself with her Catholic faith from her childhood through readings and I know she regrets leaving the church as a teen. Any information would be helpful. Thanks.
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Cards,
I assume it is your first marriage and her second. As a Catholic who married outside the Church the first time, based on the information you’ve provided here, she still needs to have the first marriage annulled, although (I’m guessing here) it is probably an annullment of form, as the Church would have viewed that first marriage as invalid because of the fact that she was a baptised Catholic.
Regarding your kids, your marriage situation does not effect their Baptism. If you are married in the Catholic Church, the Church will require that you both make best efforts to raise them as faithful Catholics. Based on what you’ve said, the Church would already recognize their Baptisms as valid.
May God bless you in your journey towards the faith. I would encourage you both to meet with a good local Catholic priest as soon as possible. I applaud your courage and may God fill you with the graces necessary for your journey!
 
Thanks. Yes it is my first marriage. What is an annullment of form? Would our current marriage be vaild, since she did not receive an annullment before our Episcopal marriage? I apprecitate your help.
 
Cards,
It is my understanding that yes, she needs to have her first marriage annulled. I am not an expert on annulments, so I encourage you to contact your parish priest or the contact at the diocesan level for the marriage tribunal to get direction. My understanding of an annulment of form (a baptized Catholic marrying outside of the Church) is the process for annulment of the first marriage in this situation. All though since we don’t know all the particulars of her situation it is unfair to make any categorical statement here without you getting it directly from the proper Church authorities. However, based on what you’ve said, it appears that her first marriage outside of the Church maybe considered invalid. If this is important to you, I wouldn’t waste any time making contact with the parish/ diocese for your particular case.
God bless you!
 
Cards,
I’m sorry in my last post I didn’t answer directly your question about your current marriage. You have to assume you’re currently in an irregular marriage situation until you get the issue of the validity of your spouse’s first marriage resolved. The fact that you married a baptized Catholic outside of the Church would suggest that you will need to have that marriage blessed in the Church assuming her first marriage is annulled. Please don’t hesitate pursuing this…based on what you’ve said here, and your desire to explore the Catholic faith, you may be responding to a great grace of being in union with the Church. I encourage you to take the lead from the promptings you are both having so that you can experience the fullness of truth in communion with your brothers and sisters in Christ.
May God bless you!
 
Okay, not to hijack, but to ask a related question regarding prot-prot marriage and joining the Roman Catholic Church:

John and Mary are both protestant. They get married–first marraige for him, but a second marriage for her. After fifteen years or so, Mary divorces John so she can marry a third time.

John marries Sally (also protestant). She has never before been married.

John and Sally begin to feel the pull to Rome.

Which of John’s marriages is considered the valid one?

(For background, Mary’s first marriage also ended in divorce for “irreconcilable differences.” IOW, she just didn’t feel like being married any more.)

Thanks.
 
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JoyfulOne:
Okay, not to hijack, but to ask a related question regarding prot-prot marriage and joining the Roman Catholic Church:

John and Mary are both protestant. They get married–first marraige for him, but a second marriage for her. After fifteen years or so, Mary divorces John so she can marry a third time.

John marries Sally (also protestant). She has never before been married.

John and Sally begin to feel the pull to Rome.

Which of John’s marriages is considered the valid one?

(For background, Mary’s first marriage also ended in divorce for “irreconcilable differences.” IOW, she just didn’t feel like being married any more.)

Thanks.
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The short answer is that the validity of John’s first marriage has to be considered. Why Mary got divorced in either case is not the issue regarding annulments. Annulments are about whether a marriage is considered valid at the time of marrying. And what impediments to making it a valid marriage existed at that time. I hope that helps!
God bless you.
 
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byHisGrace:
The short answer is that the validity of John’s first marriage has to be considered. Why Mary got divorced in either case is not the issue regarding annulments. Annulments are about whether a marriage is considered valid at the time of marrying. And what impediments to making it a valid marriage existed at that time. I hope that helps!
God bless you.
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Thanks, it does help some, but I guess that was my question.

Can his first marriage be valid, considering that Mary was divorced? Or does that matter for prot-prot marriages?

The marriage was valid civilly, as all that was required was a divorce decree. And it was valid in the church they attended at the time (the Christian Church, which, if you are unfamiliar with it, is a quasi-Baptist church), but, as I understand it, it would not have been valid in the eyes of Rome–would it?

Would Mary not have had to seek to annul her first marriage had it been she that were looking to convert?

And God bless you, too 🙂
 
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JoyfulOne:
Can his first marriage be valid, considering that Mary was divorced? Or does that matter for prot-prot marriages?
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There are two ways that John’s marriage to Mary could be valid:
  • if Mary’s first marriage was invalid, or
  • if Mary’s first husband had died prior to her marrying John
In practice, a tribunal will not do a full investigation into the validity of Mary’s first marriage, but will only look for a few obvious causes of invalidity, e.g.
  • Mary’s first husband himself had a prior valid marriage, or
  • Mary’s first husband was Catholic, and they married outside the Catholic Church
Hope this helps!
 
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Catholic2003:
  • if Mary’s first husband had died prior to her marrying John
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Oops, this should have said “if Mary’s first husband had died prior to her separation and/or divorce from John”.
 
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Catholic2003:
There are two ways that John’s marriage to Mary could be valid:
  • if Mary’s first marriage was invalid, or
  • if Mary’s first husband had died prior to her marrying John
In practice, a tribunal will not do a full investigation into the validity of Mary’s first marriage, but will only look for a few obvious causes of invalidity, e.g.
  • Mary’s first husband himself had a prior valid marriage, or
  • Mary’s first husband was Catholic, and they married outside the Catholic Church
Hope this helps!
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I does help–thanks!

Mary and her first husband were around eighteen when they married, so while I am not positive, I am reasonably certain it was also his first marriage 😉

Not sure if he was Catholic or not…hmmm…

One thing I really am curious about is, if an annulment is necessary (for John and Mary’s marriage) exactly howmuch cooperation would be required of Mary? She is highly unlikely to be cooperative, and will take this as some sort of personal slight.

sighs
 
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JoyfulOne:
One thing I really am curious about is, if an annulment is necessary (for John and Mary’s marriage) exactly howmuch cooperation would be required of Mary? She is highly unlikely to be cooperative, and will take this as some sort of personal slight.
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Good question. I’m not exactly sure how much cooperation from Mary would be required in this case. I will try to find out this weekend. At a minimum, you will need a copy of the marriage certificate between Mary and her first husband, but if you know where they were married, you should be able to obtain this from the state or locality.
 
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Catholic2003:
Good question. I’m not exactly sure how much cooperation from Mary would be required in this case. I will try to find out this weekend. At a minimum, you will need a copy of the marriage certificate between Mary and her first husband, but if you know where they were married, you should be able to obtain this from the state or locality.
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Thank you. It may not be as difficult as I was thinking it would be.
 
OK I am now getting confused by the John/Mary Scenario. I am going to relate about my annulment experience and I think it may be less confusing. I am Catholic born and raised, I was married to a man that was born and raised Catholic but lied and said he was still Catholic. We were married in a civil ceremony, eloped due to parents. We were married 13 yrs and he tells me during the marriage that he is no longer Catholic but a pagan high priest. He walks out the door (much more to the story) and I still stay married to him. A couple years later after much soul searching I file for divorce. We got divorced and I get an annulment on the grounds of defect of form (we were not married in the church). I meet the love of my life, he is Lutheran, born, raised Lutheran, married in his church. He decides to become Catholic. Joins the Catholic Church through RCIA. No Problem, a year later he proposes. I say not until you are annulled will you be free to marry. So he files for an annulment. Him and exwife were both baptized Lutheran and confirmed and married in their church. He went to a couple of counselling sessions to determine if his marriage was valid and if he could get an annulment. Turns out that they determine that his idea of marriage and hers were different. She was ok with the idea of divorce, he wasn’t…thought it should be forever. Also in their findings, they determine that he was not mature enough to really enter into a marriage, as he was 18 and he felt that this was more the logical step since they had both graduated HS and her guardian passed away. So they grant him an annulment with a stipulation…before he can remarry he has to go in for counselling to see if he is mature enough at this time. So, he went to counselling and we got married.

I hope this clears a few things up for you. You may have to agree to live as brother and sister until the annulment is granted if you are already married.
 
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BlestOne:
OK I am now getting confused by the John/Mary Scenario.
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LOL–sorry! I was trying so hard to simplifiy it! 😃
I am going to relate about my annulment experience and I think it may be less confusing. I am Catholic born and raised, I was married to a man that was born and raised Catholic but lied and said he was still Catholic. We were married in a civil ceremony, eloped due to parents. We were married 13 yrs and he tells me during the marriage that he is no longer Catholic but a pagan high priest. He walks out the door (much more to the story) and I still stay married to him. A couple years later after much soul searching I file for divorce. We got divorced and I get an annulment on the grounds of defect of form (we were not married in the church). I meet the love of my life, he is Lutheran, born, raised Lutheran, married in his church. He decides to become Catholic. Joins the Catholic Church through RCIA. No Problem, a year later he proposes. I say not until you are annulled will you be free to marry. So he files for an annulment. Him and exwife were both baptized Lutheran and confirmed and married in their church. He went to a couple of counselling sessions to determine if his marriage was valid and if he could get an annulment. Turns out that they determine that his idea of marriage and hers were different. She was ok with the idea of divorce, he wasn’t…thought it should be forever. Also in their findings, they determine that he was not mature enough to really enter into a marriage, as he was 18 and he felt that this was more the logical step since they had both graduated HS and her guardian passed away. So they grant him an annulment with a stipulation…before he can remarry he has to go in for counselling to see if he is mature enough at this time. So, he went to counselling and we got married.
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Wow! That’s some story. Praying the rest of y’all’s life is far less stressful.

The emboldened part sounds like John and Mary.
I hope this clears a few things up for you. You may have to agree to live as brother and sister until the annulment is granted if you are already married.
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Erm… :whistle: Can the annulment come* before* joining the Church?
 
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JoyfulOne:
Erm… :whistle: Can the annulment come* before* joining the Church?
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Yes. Anyone, Catholic or not, can request an investigation into the validity of their marriage.
 
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