Annulment and "outing" someone who is bi/homosexual

[mellowcalico]

I am posting this because the other thread on annulments got me thinking about my upcoming petition to review my marriage.

I’ve told me story here a few times. In a nutshell, my husband announced to me (after we were married) that he was bisexual and that as far as he was concerned his vow to me was “forsaking all other women” not all other men. He was drunk at the time and was explaining to me a “special” relationship he was having with a gay man that he was in love with (that started before we were married). He told me while drunk, but I believe it to be the truth. Although part of me suspects he’s actually homosexual, not bi. He did have what may have been an affair with a woman during our marriage (took her to London, shared hotels rooms with her, etc.), but mostly he’s been focused on men.

I never caught him in a homosexual act, but he has had gay “male friends” over the course of the marriage that I was never allowed to meet, who’s houses he’d spend the night at, etc. I once caught him in a romantic-style embrace with a gay friend while watching what looked like gay erotica to me and I also found gay porn on our computer and other evidence that he was probably having a gay affair. I confronted him one other time about his sexuality and was met with silence (not a denial nor a confirmation). Most of the time, I was in denial and tried to ignore it–in a way hoping if I showed him I loved him enough, he would stop and his sexual preferences would change.

This evidence plus intuition made me fairly sure, but I if I were to bring my evidence to a modern court to prove adultery it wouldn’t be beyond a reasonable doubt. In fact, I don’t think a homosexual affair is considered adultery in my state (it’s a sexual act between a man and woman, one of whom is married).

Anyway, I stuck with the marriage though since, “you are supposed to stay married for better or for worse.” But I really was miserable. Fast forward a few years and he told me the marriage wasn’t working for him anymore and he wanted a divorce (he’d already contacted a lawyer and started the process). We separated for over a year. He decided he didn’t want to file (but he didn’t want to get back together either). I was concerned about having legal ties to him (mainly financial and child support related) so I did the actual filing of divorce–which is allowed by the Church. I went with a no-fault divorce (I couldn’t prove adultery anyway–see above).

The divorce is almost finalized and now I am looking toward annulment. I am not dating anyone or anything like that (I understand that unless the Church says so, I am still sacramentally married). Even if my marriage is found invalid, I don’t even think that I ever want to be married again after all this. I just want the peace of mind of knowing for sure if my marriage is valid or not. I guess in a way, I am hoping it’s found invalid. But it really won’t change anything about the way I am living now. It would mainly be spiritual healing for me to know one way or the other.

Here comes the hard part for me. I still care about my husband as a human being and I don’t want to humiliate him. He’s not out of the closet. I know the tribunal is secret and all, but he would know and he would still feel “outed.” We have a daughter together and I want to stay on good terms with him for her sake.

Here’s my dilemma. I think his keeping his sexuality from me and his having what I highly suspect as a sexual affair are pretty sound grounds–if not the most sound. But bring up those fact could be hurtful to him. I could leave that out. Instead, I could focus on myself. When he proposed to me, I was running out of time (ticking clock) to have children. I did have some reservations about the marriage, but I also wanted to have children before it was too late for me so I ignored those reservations. I think my “ticking clock” is reason my marriage can be found invalid too, but in comparison, it’s really weak. He also told me he wanted children before marriage, but right after we were married said he didn’t want children (we did have one however, and he announced, “one and done” and we’ve not had any marital relations since she was conceived).

What should I do? I don’t want to lie, but I don’t want to hurt him or out him either (or make him feel vengeful towards me because I outed him). Any advice? I’ve been told to tell everything, but I really feel people don’t understand that doing so would put me in a position of pushing someone out of the closet and would be perceived as an attack on him. To me it seems unChristian to do so.

I just moved and am new to my parish, but I plan on going to my parish priest after the civil divorce is final.

Thanks for your help, prayers, and advice!

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

I am posting this because the other thread on annulments got me thinking about my upcoming petition to review my marriage.

I’ve told me story here a few times. In a nutshell, my husband announced to me (after we were married) that he was bisexual and that as far as he was concerned his vow to me was “forsaking all other women” not all other men. He was drunk at the time and was explaining to me a “special” relationship he was having with a gay man that he was in love with (that started before we were married). He told me while drunk, but I believe it to be the truth. Although part of me suspects he’s actually homosexual, not bi. He did have what may have been an affair with a woman during our marriage (took her to London, shared hotels rooms with her, etc.), but mostly he’s been focused on men.

I never caught him in a homosexual act, but he has had gay “male friends” over the course of the marriage that I was never allowed to meet, who’s houses he’d spend the night at, etc. I once caught him in a romantic-style embrace with a gay friend while watching what looked like gay erotica to me and I also found gay porn on our computer and other evidence that he was probably having a gay affair. I confronted him one other time about his sexuality and was met with silence (not a denial nor a confirmation). Most of the time, I was in denial and tried to ignore it–in a way hoping if I showed him I loved him enough, he would stop and his sexual preferences would change.

This evidence plus intuition made me fairly sure, but I if I were to bring my evidence to a modern court to prove adultery it wouldn’t be beyond a reasonable doubt. In fact, I don’t think a homosexual affair is considered adultery in my state (it’s a sexual act between a man and woman, one of whom is married).

Anyway, I stuck with the marriage though since, “you are supposed to stay married for better or for worse.” But I really was miserable. Fast forward a few years and he told me the marriage wasn’t working for him anymore and he wanted a divorce (he’d already contacted a lawyer and started the process). We separated for over a year. He decided he didn’t want to file (but he didn’t want to get back together either). I was concerned about having legal ties to him (mainly financial and child support related) so I did the actual filing of divorce–which is allowed by the Church. I went with a no-fault divorce (I couldn’t prove adultery anyway–see above).

The divorce is almost finalized and now I am looking toward annulment. I am not dating anyone or anything like that (I understand that unless the Church says so, I am still sacramentally married). Even if my marriage is found invalid, I don’t even think that I ever want to be married again after all this. I just want the peace of mind of knowing for sure if my marriage is valid or not. I guess in a way, I am hoping it’s found invalid. But it really won’t change anything about the way I am living now. It would mainly be spiritual healing for me to know one way or the other.

Here comes the hard part for me. I still care about my husband as a human being and I don’t want to humiliate him. He’s not out of the closet. I know the tribunal is secret and all, but he would know and he would still feel “outed.” We have a daughter together and I want to stay on good terms with him for her sake.

Here’s my dilemma. I think his keeping his sexuality from me and his having what I highly suspect as a sexual affair are pretty sound grounds–if not the most sound. But bring up those fact could be hurtful to him. I could leave that out. Instead, I could focus on myself. When he proposed to me, I was running out of time (ticking clock) to have children. I did have some reservations about the marriage, but I also wanted to have children before it was too late for me so I ignored those reservations. I think my “ticking clock” is reason my marriage can be found invalid too, but in comparison, it’s really weak. He also told me he wanted children before marriage, but right after we were married said he didn’t want children (we did have one however, and he announced, “one and done” and we’ve not had any marital relations since she was conceived).

What should I do? I don’t want to lie, but I don’t want to hurt him or out him either (or make him feel vengeful towards me because I outed him). Any advice? I’ve been told to tell everything, but I really feel people don’t understand that doing so would put me in a position of pushing someone out of the closet and would be perceived as an attack on him. To me it seems unChristian to do so.

I just moved and am new to my parish, but I plan on going to my parish priest after the civil divorce is final.

Thanks for your help, prayers, and advice!

Be completely honest with the Tribunal. Tell them everything. What happens happens, but you have to be completely honest withthe Tribuanl. If you can not do that then do not proceed with annulment.

 

[Alindawyl]

You don’t need to volunteer information that the Tribunal doesn’t ask for. But whatever they do ask for, even something as vague as “any reasons at all that you may have for believing your spouse was not being honest with you at the time you married”, be forthright. No equivocations and no evasions. The Tribunal can’t do its job properly unless you’re honest, both with them and with yourself.

 

[starsmurf]

You have to tell them the truth. Your husband was not honest with you, seems to have had various affairs with men and women and has never in all that time considered your feelings or worried about you feeling humilated. To tell a secret tribunal all that you have told in the post above is not “outing” him, no-one else will ever know.

I will be praying for you, I hope that you get your annulment and are free to find happiness whereever God has planned it for you.

 

[JHow]

…I think his keeping his sexuality from me and his having what I highly suspect as a sexual affair are pretty sound grounds–if not the most sound.

Stop here…Do not sell past the close.

The below is weak by your own admission:

…Instead, I could focus on myself. When he proposed to me, I was running out of time (ticking clock) to have children. I did have some reservations about the marriage, but I also wanted to have children before it was too late for me so I ignored those reservations. I think my “ticking clock” is reason my marriage can be found invalid too, but in comparison, it’s really weak…

 

[nodito]

I agree that you need to be honest with the Tribunal. I would add that, if it would make you more comfortable, you could speak to your husband in advance and tell him that you plan on writing what you posted here. I don’t think you’re obliged to do so, but it might help reassure him that you’re not out to publicize his indiscretions. You could also reasure him that you won’t discuss the tribunal process with your daughter or any of your friends, and if the marriage is found to be invalid, you won’t reveal the reasons to anyone.

Maybe think of it this way: Say that, before the wedding, a friend of yours knew that your fiance was gay. Would it have been more charitable of your friend to share this information with you so that you could avoid an invalid marriage, or would it be more charitable to keep your fiance’s secret?

 

[puzzleannie]

I
What should I do? I don’t want to lie, but I don’t want to hurt him or out him either (or make him feel vengeful towards me because I outed him). Any advice? !

of course you do not want to lie in testimony in a legal matter. Tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, as you know it, regarding all aspects of your marriage and the man you married. Tribunal proceedings are confidential. Why on earth would you not give the most relevant part of your testimony? I simply do not see the dilemma. You are not taking out an ad in the local paper. Don’t forget the many people with whom he has been carrying on probably know more about his proclivities than you do so he is already “outed.” (what an idiotic verb that is).

and there is absolutely no need to do what others have suggested, contact your husband and tell him about your testimony. He cannot possibly have reason to think you will lie about it.

 

[nodito]

and there is absolutely no need to do what others have suggested, contact your husband and tell him about your testimony. He cannot possibly have reason to think you will lie about it.

I know there’s no need to contact him. I only suggested it because the OP seems to believe that her husband will feel personally betrayed when she tells the Tribunal the truth. I say it’s her perogative to give him warning, if she thinks it will help him and eases her own conscience.

 

[dans0622]

…Here’s my dilemma. I think his keeping his sexuality from me and his having what I highly suspect as a sexual affair are pretty sound grounds–if not the most sound. But bring up those fact could be hurtful to him. I could leave that out. Instead, I could focus on myself. When he proposed to me, I was running out of time (ticking clock) to have children. I did have some reservations about the marriage, but I also wanted to have children before it was too late for me so I ignored those reservations. I think my “ticking clock” is reason my marriage can be found invalid too, but in comparison, it’s really weak. He also told me he wanted children before marriage, but right after we were married said he didn’t want children (we did have one however, and he announced, “one and done” and we’ve not had any marital relations since she was conceived).

What should I do? I don’t want to lie, but I don’t want to hurt him or out him either (or make him feel vengeful towards me because I outed him). Any advice? …

Hello mellowcalico,

You also have to remember that you should be able to have witnesses corroborate whatever you say. Can people corroborate what you said about your own state before the marriage? If you are focused on your own discretion/freedom at that time, can it be proven that you were somehow gravely lacking? Regarding your husband’s issues, does anyone know about it and would they be willing to testify? Regarding his views concerning children, does anyone know about that? (Even though you did have one child, that doesn’t necessarily mean the “ground” regarding the good of offspring is out the window).

While you can and should discern what you wish to tell the Tribunal, you can’t really control what others might say. If you keep something secret, will someone else (or, can someone else) make it known?

Finally, of course you have to fulfill the terms of the oath you take before giving testimony.

Dan

 

[mellowcalico]

I have one witness (she was there when he admitted being bi-sexual). She’s not Catholic, but said she would testify. All the other people who would be witnesses I’ve either long ago lost touch with or never knew (he kept the secret from all of our mutual friends and most of his work-related friends. It’s like he lead a double life and he got better at keeping that life secret from me the longer we were married. The only way I even know any of the names of his gay friends is because one gave him a book and signed it and another used to stop by–I only ever had his first name). So I have two first names. To this day I wish I thought to keep some things I found–but I didn’t. At the time I wanted to try to ignore what was happening.

He was always pretty vocal about, “one and done” in regards to children. I am not sure if there are any witnesses to that other than my family (he’s broken ties with most of his family). But that was well after the marriage. I have no witness to when he told me a few months after we were married that he didn’t want children. Even the priest whom we talked to and he told “I want to have children” isn’t around anymore (he died a few years ago).

Anyway, thank you all for your advice. I’ve pretty much been told all along that I should tell everything–it’s just hard for me to do. Even telling him I will tell the tribunal would be hard (trust me, he will still be upset). Honestly, I think it’s better to tell the tribunal–there is a good chance my husband won’t even care about the annulment process. It’s not like he is a practicing Catholic or has been for our entire marriage.

I guess I was hoping to find a way to get out–I guess I have to accept that it’s just not going to be easy, no matter what I do. Thanks for the advice and thanks for the prayers!

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

I would like to add one more thing. Do not worry about your husband feelings of being personnally betrayed. If things are as you have said, He has betrayed you over and over again. He may feel that way but really it is not a justified feeling and has not bearing on the matter. You at this point do not own him any explainations.

 

[mellowcalico]

I would like to add one more thing. Do not worry about your husband feelings of being personnally betrayed. If things are as you have said, He has betrayed you over and over again. He may feel that way but really it is not a justified feeling and has not bearing on the matter. You at this point do not own him any explainations.

Thanks again… I think part of it is I was loyal to him for so long, it’s hard not to still have some loyalty to him. But the other part is I really don’t like hurting people and I still care about him on some level–enough that it would pain me to see him embarrassed or hurt.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Thanks again… I think part of it is I was loyal to him for so long, it’s hard not to still have some loyalty to him. But the other part is I really don’t like hurting people and I still care about him on some level–enough that it would pain me to see him embarrassed or hurt.

I understand and full agree that you should not go out and intentionally try to hurt and embrass him. And of course you care for him, that goes without saying. However, Your main focus now has to be on what does god have instore for you and by beign completel;y honest you maybe helping him. Look at it this way he has for so long been able to live a double life that he has not had to really look at what he is doing. This could be one of his last chances to really look at it and make the correct choices.

Regaurdless of if he has SSA he has choosen to act on that and that is not ggod for him, you, your daughter, or those that he has been with.

 

[puzzleannie]

Hello mellowcalico,

You also have to remember that you should be able to have witnesses corroborate whatever you say. Dan

no not absolutely, that is why the petioner should visit their priest and get advice on the process. this advice is too simplistic and there is a lot more to it

a confidential testimony to the tribunal is not public, so the word “outing” does not even apply in this context

 

[Trishie]

The Tribunal won’t publicize what you share, so there is no ‘outing’.
However, if the marriage isn’t a marriage in God’s eyes, then you could be blocking His will for your life if you aren’t truthful and thereby didn’t obtain freedom from a contract that isn’t valid and isn’t a Sacrament.

 

[dans0622]

no not absolutely, that is why the petioner should visit their priest and get advice on the process. this advice is too simplistic and there is a lot more to it
…

Hello puzzleannie,

I wasn’t speaking in absolutes, hence the word “should.” I would have been wise to specify that important claims should be corroborated. There is nothing else to it and there is no use in introducing complexity. It is a simple expectation of the law (cf. c. 1536).

Dan

 

[StateofGrace]

of course you do not want to lie in testimony in a legal matter. Tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, as you know it, regarding all aspects of your marriage and the man you married. Tribunal proceedings are confidential. Why on earth would you not give the most relevant part of your testimony? I simply do not see the dilemma. You are not taking out an ad in the local paper. Don’t forget the many people with whom he has been carrying on probably know more about his proclivities than you do so he is already “outed.” (what an idiotic verb that is).

and there is absolutely no need to do what others have suggested, contact your husband and tell him about your testimony. He cannot possibly have reason to think you will lie about it.

**Mellocalico…this is absolutely the best answer to your situation ! I have been through the annulment process and worried over “issues” such as yours regarding my ex-spouse. Answer the questions with honesty. I searched over and over to try and portray him in a more positive light. However, doing so was not truthful and above all the Tribunal asks for honesty. Confidentiality is paramount to the Tribunal. As for your ex, Yes he has the opportunity to read your petition. Most likely he will not especially if he thinks you might have used his own words, thoughts and deeds in your response. Above be as truthful as you know how to be. **

 

[puzzleannie]

** I searched over and over to try and portray him in a more positive light. However, doing so was not truthful and above all the Tribunal asks for honesty. . **

hear from one who has been there thank you for this

the purpose of the testimony is not to place anyone in either a positive or negative light or to proceed with any agenda, it is to state the truth by giving the facts, in their context, as you know them. this is true whether you are one of the parties, or a witness.