Annulment Changes?

[marimagi]

It has been awhile since I have posted. There has been somewhat of a crisis in the family and I am only now coming up for air!

Aside from that, I am in an irregular marital situation. According to the current Church protocol, I should go through the annulment process. But deep in my heart and soul, I do not believe that this is the appropriate action to take at this time.

I recently read that Pope Francis has mentioned that mercy needs to be interjected into situations like my own, and has expressed some dissatisfaction with the long process of annulment as it currently exists. Does anyone know more about this? Are there plans to change the annulment process or possibly adopt the Eastern Orthodox practice of granting mercy in certain situations?

 

[MaryT777]

Knowing several persons who have gone through the annulment process and several who would not and left the church I believe there needs to be a better way. Witnesses,
and First and Second Instant Courts and year or more long waits is not the best way to minister to those divorced and hoping to remarry in my opinion. Not to mention the brutal fact of the cost. Here it’s a thousand dollars now, not to mention it’s not an infallible process.

Surely more concern and mercy could be utiilzied to find a better way to reconcile those to the church for remarriage than the paperwork trail used now.
My friend who is a Lutheran Pastor told me 90% of the persons Catholic he converted to the Lutheran faith found the entire process against the Bible refused to do it and converted for that main reason.

Mary.

 

[1ke]

Aside from that, I am in an irregular marital situation.

By this I presume you mean that either you or your spouse are divorced and you are remarried outside the Church.

According to the current Church protocol

It’s not a protocol. The teaching on the perpetuity and indissoluability of a sacramental marriage is a doctrine.

But deep in my heart and soul, I do not believe that this is the appropriate action to take at this time.

Your other option would be continence.

I recently read that Pope Francis has mentioned that mercy needs to be interjected into situations like my own, and has expressed some dissatisfaction with the long process of annulment as it currently exists. Does anyone know more about this? Are there plans to change the annulment process

I am sorry that your hopes have been raised based on distorted media reports. While the Curia as a whole is indeed being looked at by a group of Cardinals appointed by the Pope, they are not looking specifically at nullity processes. They might look at it as part of the overall Curia changes. But Canon Law would also require changes if the procedural aspects were to change.

The underlying doctrine, however, cannot change.

or possibly adopt the Eastern Orthodox practice of granting mercy in certain situations?

No.

Please go talk to your pastor and get the annulment process started if you have a case.

 

[marimagi]

Thank you for your response Mary.

 

[His_helpmeet]

The reason that it takes so long for a declaration of nullity to be granted is due to the Church’s recognition of the sacrament of marriage as an indissoluble state. It is necessary to be 100% positive that a real covenant of marriage NEVER existed. One primary purpose of the precana/mariage preparation process in the Church is to prevent invalid marriages from occurring. In the case of a Church marriage that was declared invalid, effectively the Church is saying, “You know, we really dropped the ball somewhere, and this was a wedding that should NEVER have taken place”. My husband went through the process with his first marriage (his ex told him that as far as she was concerned, marriage was glorified common-law with ceremonial benefits and the vows she took were just symbolic and didn’t really mean anything). It was explained to him that part of the reason the process takes so long is to allow the couple time to consider whether or not this is what they really want. Sometimes a couple will begin the process and decide halfway through that they’ve made a terrible mistake and they want to reconsider. A declaration of nullity is not something that the Church is guaranteed to give in every situation, and the burden of proof is on the petitioner and his/her witnesses to make the claim that the marriage is not valid.

 

[marimagi]

I have no doubt that my marriage was invalid. By every standard set forth by the Church, a true and valid marriage to my now ex, was impossible. What concerns me at this point, is the Pope’s acknowledgement of the fact that something has to be done about the annulment process.

Yes, marriage is a sacrament and a sacred covenant with God. Absolutely, it is not something to be taken lightly. At the same time, it IS taken lightly by some who get married in the Catholic Church. My ex is a perfect example.

And yet, the annulment process (as well intended as it is,) cannot ever insure beyond any doubt, that a true sacramental marriage did not take place. The whole process is so legalistic and worldly, it does not seem in alignment with what Christ would actually prescribe.

That is why I am interested in the Pope"s statements regarding the exceedingly lengthy and cumbersome process of annulment. I am under the impression that our Pope is of a mind to acknowledge that the annulment process is not workable for many Catholics, and may be inclined to make some changes.

 

[Xantippe]

marimagi said:

“I have no doubt that my marriage was invalid. By every standard set forth by the Church, a true and valid marriage to my now ex, was impossible.”

Start the process then.

“According to the current Church protocol, I should go through the annulment process. But deep in my heart and soul, I do not believe that this is the appropriate action to take at this time.”

Are you too tied up with family issues currently, or what?

If you have any time at all to spare, now would be the best time to start this. I have seen a number of people on this forum say that they found the process of pursuing an annulment a very healing one.

 

[1ke]

I have no doubt that my marriage was invalid. By every standard set forth by the Church, a true and valid marriage to my now ex, was impossible.

Then I encourage you to establish this fact through the tribunal and convalidate your current marriage.

IWhat concerns me at this point, is the Pope’s acknowledgement of the fact that something has to be done about the annulment process.

a) The Pope did not say “something has to be done” about the annulment process.
b) Why would it concern you if he did say that?

IAnd yet, the annulment process (as well intended as it is,) cannot ever insure beyond any doubt, that a true sacramental marriage did not take place. The whole process is so legalistic and worldly, it does not seem in alignment with what Christ would actually prescribe.

a) One may have moral certainty regarding the Tribuna’s decision.
b) The process is not “worldly” and although it is a canon law process it is not “legalistic” in the way I believe you are implying. Regardless of any reforms it will always be a juridic process.

That is why I am interested in the Pope"s statements regarding the exceedingly lengthy and cumbersome process of annulment. I am under the impression that our Pope is of a mind to acknowledge that the annulment process is not workable for many Catholics, and may be inclined to make some changes.

Not the ones you are hoping for. Do not hold your breath for Orthodox style divorce and remarriage.

 

[marimagi]

I do not believe that the annulment process is an appropriate response to the problem of divorce and the issue of remarriage. I am encouraged by the possibility that our Pope is concerned about the appropriateness of this process as well. The Church is losing otherwise dedicated Catholics to a so-called “resolution” to the problem of the indissolubility of marriage, which does not adequately address the real life situations that many people face.Really, I can’t imagine Jesus advocating a process that involves among other things, cannon lawyers? Didn’t He protest such human resolutions to problems that separated us from God?

Actually, I did seek and receive an annulment from my first marriage. No, it was not a healing experience and it ultimately served to distance me from the Church for a while . There was nothing in the process that felt appropriate or connected to my spiritually or religious beliefs at all. It felt purely bureaucratic

I felt encouraged to read that Pope Francis was not satisfied with annulment as an adequate resolution to the current crisis of divorce and remarriage. I am interested in responses by people who may know more about our Pope’s concerns, Arguments in favor of the current situation are well known to me.

 

[Xantippe]

marimagi said:

“Really, I can’t imagine Jesus advocating a process that involves among other things, cannon lawyers? Didn’t He protest such human resolutions to problems that separated us from God?”

Actually, I don’t think you really want to look to Jesus as an argument for relaxing current Catholic canonical practice. Let’s look at Matthew 19 in the RSV:

“And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one’s wife for any cause?” 4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who made them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder.” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?” 8 He said to them, “For your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another, commits adultery.” 10 The disciples said to him, “If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is not expedient to marry.” 11 But he said to them, “Not all men can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. 12 For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it.””

As you can see here, the Pharisees (the canon lawyers of their day) appear here as the advocates of easy divorce. Jesus is wiping out the Jewish traditions that allowed easy divorce and looking back to the primeval meaning of marriage–“in the beginning.” In this passage, the disciples themselves are very uncomfortable with the strictness of Jesus’s position on divorce and remarriage. In their opinion, it would be easier and better not to marry at all than to obey Jesus’s teaching on marriage. And Jesus in fact agrees with them that yes, that for some, it is better not to marry.

(Note that “unchastity” here can’t really mean adultery. If adultery justifies divorce, then that means that adultery is a get out of jail card, and whoever wants to dissolve their marriage can just commit adultery and will be sprung free. That is obviously unworkable as a system–although I believe the Anglicans used to do something like that.)

If I understand the Orthodox system correctly, they treat second and third marriages as if they were a bit of a failing on the part of the bride and groom (even if previous spouses are dead). I’ll continue in another post.

 

[Xantippe]

Here’s a quote from an Orthodox Church in America web page:

“According to the Orthodox teaching, only one marriage can contain the perfect meaning and significance which Christ has given to this reality. Thus, the Orthodox Christian tradition encourages widows and widowers to remain faithful to their spouses who are dead to this world but alive in Christ. The Orthodox tradition also, by the same principle, considers temporary “living together,” casual sexual relations, sexual relations with many different people, sexual relations between members of the same sex, and the breakdown of marriages in separation and divorce, all as contrary to the human perfection revealed by God in Christ. Through penance, however, and with the sincere confession of sins and the genuine promise of a good life together, the Orthodox Church does have a service of second marriage for those who have not been able to fulfill the ideal conditions of marriage as taught by Christ. It is the practice of the Church as well not to exclude members of second marriages from the sacrament of holy communion if they desire sincerely to be in eucharistic fellowship with God, and if they fulfill all other conditions for participation in the life of the Church.”

oca.org/orthodoxy/the-orthodox-faith/worship/the-sacraments/marriage

As you see, the Orthodox Church doesn’t really even like second marriages for widows and widowers. The liturgy for a second or third marriage is purposely toned down.

Wikipedia says:

“In such cases *, remarriage may be possible but there is a special rite for a second marriage which contains a penitential element for the dissolution of the first, i.e. some of the more joyful aspects are removed.[2] Marriage is permitted up to three times in Orthodoxy but each divorce necessitates a short period of excommunication. The Orthodox Church, as the saying goes, “blesses the first marriage, performs the second, tolerates the third, and forbids the fourth”.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_the_Eastern_Orthodox_Church

Hence, the Catholic practice is in some senses more relaxed than the Orthodox one described here. In Catholic practice, if you bury 3 spouses, you may marry a 4th in the church, whereas that would probably not be allowed among the Orthodox.

I personally think that the Orthodox position against remarriage of widows and widowers is odd, because of the story of the woman with the seven husbands in Matthew 22. Jesus is asked by the Sadducees, if a woman was married to seven brothers in succession, which will be her husband in heaven? That would have been a perfect opportunity to teach that only three marriages are permitted, and ideally only one, but Jesus doesn’t do it.*

 

[MaryT777]

The annulment issue come with its own problems. My friend’s first page of her annulment
papers said that she promises not to sue anyone until the process is through. That speaks for itself.

We have had defamation of character lawsuits in Omaha over lies people told on their annulment papers to “get the annulment”

We also seem to have an issue where witnesses can be unreliable and biased. Not only that if you are a wife or husband that never talked to a lot of people about your marriage problems because you were taught marriage is sacred and not to gossip about your spouse you can find yourself lacking witnesses.

If the witness doesn’t understand the process that the marriage is to be considered invalid from the beginning they may spend time and effort writing page after page of who did what to who in the last few years of the marriage which is of no use. It could speak to the defect of the marriage but the witnesses often don’t understand the way the annulment works. It’s not who did what to who years later.

Then speak to the people who won’t be witnesses because they don’t want to “take sides”
of two people they consider friends.

The process in my opinion is defective and a better way needs to be found. My friend had the first instant court annul the marriage; just to find the second instance court disagreed and she walked out of the Catholic Church for good.

I’m a proponent for a better way to minister to Catholics who are divorced and wish to be remarried. There is NO counseling involved in the marriage annulment process; it’s simply a big giant paper trail. You are giving your testimony in writing or on recording to people who have never met you and have no clue who you are.

Mary.

 

[Xantippe]

MaryT777 said:

“There is NO counseling involved in the marriage annulment process; it’s simply a big giant paper trail. You are giving your testimony in writing or on recording to people who have never met you and have no clue who you are.”

That is a very good point.

 

[Miss_Felicity]

The annulment issue come with its own problems. My friend’s first page of her annulment
papers said that she promises not to sue anyone until the process is through. That speaks for itself.

We have had defamation of character lawsuits in Omaha over lies people told on their annulment papers to “get the annulment”

We also seem to have an issue where witnesses can be unreliable and biased. Not only that if you are a wife or husband that never talked to a lot of people about your marriage problems because you were taught marriage is sacred and not to gossip about your spouse you can find yourself lacking witnesses.

If the witness doesn’t understand the process that the marriage is to be considered invalid from the beginning they may spend time and effort writing page after page of who did what to who in the last few years of the marriage which is of no use. It could speak to the defect of the marriage but the witnesses often don’t understand the way the annulment works. It’s not who did what to who years later.

Then speak to the people who won’t be witnesses because they don’t want to “take sides”
of two people they consider friends.

The process in my opinion is defective and a better way needs to be found. My friend had the first instant court annul the marriage; just to find the second instance court disagreed and she walked out of the Catholic Church for good.

I’m a proponent for a better way to minister to Catholics who are divorced and wish to be remarried. There is NO counseling involved in the marriage annulment process; it’s simply a big giant paper trail. You are giving your testimony in writing or on recording to people who have never met you and have no clue who you are.

Mary.

I have a friend who is in this situation, he has every reason to believe his union was not valid, he is non Catholic but is interested in a Catholic woman. He says that the only person who he divulged things in from the marriage was his mother. Unfortunately his mother passed away, because many of the friends that knew them were his “ex” wifes friends and co workers he is unsure what they will say if asked about their marriage.

 

[1ke]

I do not believe that the annulment process is an appropriate response to the problem of divorce and the issue of remarriage. I am encouraged by the possibility that our Pope is concerned about the appropriateness of this process as well.

Now you are just out in left field. That is not at all what the Pope said.

The Church is losing otherwise dedicated Catholics to a so-called “resolution” to the problem of the indissolubility of marriage

Indissolubility of marriage is not a problem, and annulment is not a “resolution” for it. I think you are confused on the Church’s teaching on marriage.

Didn’t He protest such human resolutions to problems that separated us from God?

No. But what he did say is go and sin no more.

Actually, I did seek and receive an annulment from my first marriage.

Then you should have no problem convalidating your marriage. Unless your spouse also has a prior marriage or marriage(s) or you have other prior marriages.

No, it was not a healing experience and it ultimately served to distance me from the Church for a while . There was nothing in the process that felt appropriate or connected to my spiritually or religious beliefs at all. It felt purely bureaucratic

Feelings frequently deceive us.

I felt encouraged to read that Pope Francis was not satisfied with annulment as an adequate resolution to the current crisis of divorce and remarriage.

THAT IS NOT WHAT HE SAID AT ALL.

 

[His_helpmeet]

I am not certain as to how the process works in other dioceses, but I know that when my husband went through his annulment process, there was very little to write down. I can put down a list of the steps that he went through in order to receive the declaration of nullity, in the hopes that this may help:

1. He had to be civilly divorced. The tribunal required that he provide them with a divorce certificate, Baptism certificates for them both (if either had not been baptized, an affidavit of non-baptism would have been required), and a certified copy of the registration of marriage (this was necessary because the wedding was civil and the Church had no record of the marriage; in the case of a marriage celebrated in the Church this is not required).
2. He had to fill out preliminary paperwork. This required him to fill out a form that asked questions about the problems within the marriage, when they started, anything unusual that occurred on the wedding day, any suspicions of infidelity, attitude towards having children, whether he was dating with a view to marriage (he had to provide my name and address in case the tribunal wished to contact me; sometimes they will want to ensure that any problems that occurred in the previous marriage will not occur in the new marriage), their attitude toward having children in the marriage, dates of separation, details regarding the wedding, etc. Our parish priest also had to fill out a page documenting his familiarity with my husband’s marital issues and his assessment of my husband’s character and truthfulness.
3. My husband received a letter from the tribunal indicating that his case had been accepted and assigning him a case instructor, who would be his “guide” through the process. He was advised to get in touch with our parish priest, who conducted an interview with my husband about the marital problems.
4. My husband’s ex-wife was contacted. She declined to come in for an interview, so our priest simply sent everything back to the tribunal and advised them that she did not want to participate.
5. My husband is high-functioning autistic, so the tribunal asked for a letter from his doctor to this effect. (Sometimes they will ask for additional records as additional evidence.)
6. Our parish priest contacted each of my husband’s witnesses and brought them in for interviews.
7. My husband received a letter from the tribunal stating that all the evidence had been collected and they had set out a decree. This decree allowed him and his ex to come in during the next two weeks and see the evidence that had been collected, if they wished. This also gave them the opportunity to add any more evidence if they wanted. My husband, as a courtesy, sent them a note stating that he did not wish to view the evidence and he had nothing that he wanted to add.
8. My husband received a letter in the mail stating that the tribunal had reached an affirmative decision and that the decision was being automatically appealed to Ottawa, which is where the national appeals tribunal is in Canada.
9. My husband received a phone call, and then a final letter, stating that the tribunal in Ottawa had also reached an affirmative decision and that as a consequence, he was free to marry in the Catholic Church. If he or his ex wanted, they could appeal the decision to the Roman Rota, although obviously he decided not to.

I’m not sure how things are done in the U.S., but here, apart from the preliminary investigation report, there were no written statements required. Everything was submitted by taped interviews that our parish priest had with all parties, which meant that they had to respond specific questions so there could be no doubt as to the information that the tribunal required. My husband never had to go into the office, really, because everything was done behind the scenes.

 

[marimagi]

Okay, I just wanted to know what other Catholics were hearing about the Pope’s comments regarding annulments, divorce and remarriage. I did not ask for anyone’s opinion on whether or not I should participate in the current annulment process. My decision has been made.

I looked up the issue on American Catholic and saw that the Pope is calling a synod to discuss the issue in October 2014 and yes, the word mercy has been used once again. I guess I’ll just wait and see what comes of that.

 

[marimagi]

To His-Helpmate,

It sounds like the annulment process is a lot more personal where you live, It is nothing like that in the States. When I got my annulment, I was given pages and pages of questions to answer THOROUGHLY; including questions about my childhood, hid childhood, etc. etc. The final product was 30 pages! I wrote a check, sent it off, waited a year, got a letter stating it had passed the first tribunal and was going on to the second. Waited several more months, got a letter, marriage was nullified.There was nothing even closely resembling pastoral care or even a human touch. My ex’s family felt hurt by the way, as they thought I was rejecting them.

My current husband’s ex was/is lesbian and has now been with her partner for 15 years. She is happy and her family has finally made peace with the situation. The in-laws still LOVE my husband and by extension, me as well. They are the only “parents” I have. Not going to rock that boat. Obviously, God knows, we know, and everyone reading this knows, there was not a real marriage there.

 

[summer1900]

By this I presume you mean that either you or your spouse are divorced and you are remarried outside the Church.

I’d like to know if common law marriage of 27 years requires “lack of form” or does the tribunal take a different view on this since the period of time is a very long time. One party Catholic, the other not; the other baptized.

 

[Sunbreak]

Well, we don’t really know what Pope Francis’s intentions are yet. Everything is in a discussion stage which means anything could happen. Personally, I would like to see things changed regarding the annulment process. I have seen the questions and some of them are such that I think it’s nobody else’s business and certainly wouldn’t want it in writing in some archdiocesan files. So, if it ever came to the point where I would want to marry again in my older age, I would marry anyway and leave the Catholic Church before I would go through the annulment process. Besides, witnesses at this point would be hard to find since some people have died and who knows where most of the others are since there has been no contact for many years.