Annulment Concern

[Jsz2889]

Here is my story…

I’m a cradle catholic and got engaged last October. My fiancé has been divorced And not catholic at the time and when I called the church to make plans and set a date the big roadblock hit! We had to go through the annulment process. After talking with the priest he allowed us to set a date because we started the process in October of 2009 and didn’t plan on getting married until December of 2010. Our priest heard his story and thought we should have everything complete before the wedding date. We have gone through the majority of the steps and around April we heard our case went from the defender of the bond stage to the judge stage. We haven’t heard anything since, our case hasn’t moved from the judges desk. Granted I still have 185 days before we say I do but this lingering item is keeping me from enjoying the planning which obviously is why they say wait to set a date! Lesson learned and for any of those in the same boat I was in, don’t set a date because you will stress about this everyday! Anyways, my question is, has anyone gone through the Harrisburg Tribunal before?? I know every case is different but I was just wondering how long the judge portion took for annulments, at least a ballpark figure. We call on a normal basis but our case just seems to have come to a hault. Just looking to see if there is any positive news with the situation I’m in. Thanks.

 

[puzzleannie]

thank you for sharing, your warning is very timely and necessary. As painful as it is you have helped other people with your story. I am sorry the priest did not give you better counsel, including the fact that annulment is not a slam dunk and there are no guarantees. How much worse to find that out after deposits have been made, contracts signed, even a home purchased.

There are several ongoing threads on the liturgy and sacraments forum of folks such as yourself sharing their experiences with annulment that may give you more insight and hopefully comfort.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

It would be wise to see if your witnesses have returned their questionnaires. That has been the usual cause of delays in cases I am familiar with.

The Tribunals have a lot of cases. They often do not do well in following up on delays. They just put cases on the shelf until all the paper work is in.

A call to the Tribunal to ask the cause of the delay would probably be in order. Or maybe your priest can call for you.

 

[Jsz2889]

All of the necessary paperwork is in and has been in since February. The Annulment just has to pass through the judge and the appeal process before it’s complete. We are so close to the end but I feel like the case has come to a stop. Our payment is also complete and we thought that might boost it along but still it’s just resting on the judges desk awaiting his decision. It’s the waiting game that is a killer, it’s no longer in our hands, we have done everything that has been asked of us, the days just keep ticking away.

Does the priest have any pull with this type of situation?

 

[stuart12]

We must remember that no annulment is ever certain to be granted. It is not a Catholic ‘divorce’. It is not simply a matter of getting the paperwork in order.

 

[Tradycja]

Your priest gave you bad advice. One who does not have an annulment is still considered to be married until proven otherwise. A person in this situation is not allowed to “date”.

I really recommend the Book Moral Theology by Rev. Heribert Jone that was re-published by Tan Books. It will answer any moral question you will ever have in a question and answer format.

The cheapest place it can be found is here:

http://www.marianland.com/tan0208/moraltheology.html

There are also three books that are online for free that are really good on this topic:

***Questions Young People ask before marriage by Donald F. Miller, C.SS.R

---

http://www.scribd.com/doc/23958312/Questions-Young-People-Ask-Before-Marriage-by-Donald-F-Miller-C-SS-R

---

Chastity A Guide for Teens and Young Adults by Gerald Kelly, S.J., A.M., S.T.D.***
scribd.com/doc/23750067/Chastity-A-Guide-for-Teens-and-Young-Adults

***When is company keeping lawful and prudent? ***

http://www.scribd.com/doc/29065672/When-is-Company-Keeping-Lawful-and-Prudent

 

[lizaanne]

It’s the waiting game that is a killer, it’s no longer in our hands, …

I never was in your hands to begin with. God has control over this situation - just sit back and wait until you have the final disposition of your case.

In the mean time - he is a married man. Please be sure to conduct yourselves appropriately. It is scandalous that he is even engaged - what if the marriage is found to be valid?

This is not just a slam dunk situation - it never is. There is never any guarantee, and to suggest that your payment would have ANY influence on the process is just shocking to me.

I hope you receive your final judgement soon - it typically takes anywhere from 12 to 18 months or more depending on the complexity of the case and how busy the Tribunal is in your diocese.

~Liza

 

[Trinity117]

I am very sorry to hear of this stress in your life during what should be such a happy time! I was granted an annulment but my circumstances were probably much different from yours.

I had decided to return to Catholicism as an adult. I was married for a short time as a young woman - not married in the church. I obtained a divorce, years later met my current husband and got married (civil ceremony - still wasn’t back ).

I was blessed with a child and that is when I knew I had to go back to church.

I had to complete ALL of the sacraments (except baptism) so I was told I needed to obtain an annulment from my first husband. He wasn’t Catholic. Because it was SO long ago, I had to get two witnesses to the reasons for the dissolution (my mom and sister did that for me) and I had to write a letter to my bishop explaining why I had divorced then it all went to my parish priest. He took it to the bishop – and after a relatively short time (within a few months) I had that annulment. Then my current husband and I got married in our church.

I am not sure why mine went so smoothly (by comparison) but I hope your issue gets resolved soon.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

I am very sorry to hear of this stress in your life during what should be such a happy time! I was granted an annulment but my circumstances were probably much different from yours.

I had decided to return to Catholicism as an adult. I was married for a short time as a young woman - not married in the church. I obtained a divorce, years later met my current husband and got married (civil ceremony - still wasn’t back ).

I was blessed with a child and that is when I knew I had to go back to church.

I had to complete ALL of the sacraments (except baptism) so I was told I needed to obtain an annulment from my first husband. He wasn’t Catholic. Because it was SO long ago, I had to get two witnesses to the reasons for the dissolution (my mom and sister did that for me) and I had to write a letter to my bishop explaining why I had divorced then it all went to my parish priest. He took it to the bishop – and after a relatively short time (within a few months) I had that annulment. Then my current husband and I got married in our church.

I am not sure why mine went so smoothly (by comparison) but I hope your issue gets resolved soon.

If you have been baptized Catholic and the marriage was not in the Church, it is a fairly simple process [Lack of form]. It is probably the quickest case.

 

[Jsz2889]

Thanks for everyones concerns and Lisa you are right it is in Gods hands. When this whole process started I asked god for a sign, a sign to wait it out or to set a date. When the priest told me we should be ok after hearing my fiancée case I took that as my sign. I don’t have doubts but I do get worried, I just want to be able to enjoy this moment. He was not catholic at the time (just became catholic this Easter) and had no idea that he needed an annulment or that it would take this long. Even though I’m catholic i come from a family that has not had any divorces on my dads catholic side which is why I was unaware of this action that needed to take place. Guess I should have researched this prior to engagment but like I said before, it’s a lesson learned. My thought was, he has been legally divorced for 6 years so there shouldn’t be any hiccups, but was proven wrong. If anyone has ties with the harrisburg tribunal, let me know!

 

[Trinity117]

If you have been baptized Catholic and the marriage was not in the Church, it is a fairly simple process [Lack of form]. It is probably the quickest case.

You could be right, Joe. This was a ways back, and since it was all fairly new to me, all I know was that I had to get my first marriage annuled - and I had no idea how many different kinds there were! I had no idea that sometimes this can be a very long, drawn out type of thing.

 

[VetA]

Here is my story…

I’m a cradle catholic and got engaged last October. My fiancé has been divorced And not catholic at the time and when I called the church to make plans and set a date the big roadblock hit! We had to go through the annulment process. After talking with the priest he allowed us to set a date because we started the process in October of 2009 and didn’t plan on getting married until December of 2010. Our priest heard his story and thought we should have everything complete before the wedding date. We have gone through the majority of the steps and around April we heard our case went from the defender of the bond stage to the judge stage. We haven’t heard anything since, our case hasn’t moved from the judges desk. Granted I still have 185 days before we say I do but this lingering item is keeping me from enjoying the planning which obviously is why they say wait to set a date! Lesson learned and for any of those in the same boat I was in, don’t set a date because you will stress about this everyday! Anyways, my question is, has anyone gone through the Harrisburg Tribunal before?? I know every case is different but I was just wondering how long the judge portion took for annulments, at least a ballpark figure. We call on a normal basis but our case just seems to have come to a hault. Just looking to see if there is any positive news with the situation I’m in. Thanks.

Setting a date WILL not make them moove faster, if the annulment doesnt go through by the time your wedding date come to pass you WILL NOT be permitted to marry in the church

 

[moon1234]

It might help to know that an annulment is not a divorce. It is a declaration that no valid marriage existed in the first place.

Contrary to what many belive, just because you are not married in the Catholic church does not mean you don’t have a valid marriage. The sacrament of Marriage is performed by the spouses. If both people were NOT Catholic and got married and then divorced, then one wants to become Catholic and get re-married, this may not be possible. The original spouses may still be validly married in the Church’s eyes.

This may be why it is taking so long. Your case does not sound like an easy one and you may not like what the tribunal arrives at.

 

[pro_multis]

How often does a tribunal reach the conclusion that the annulment will not be granted? I always assumed that it was kind of a “check the box” process from what I have heard about it. What is the fail rate (for lack of a better term) of annulment cases that go before tribunals?

 

[stuart12]

How often does a tribunal reach the conclusion that the annulment will not be granted? I always assumed that it was kind of a “check the box” process from what I have heard about it. What is the fail rate (for lack of a better term) of annulment cases that go before tribunals?

I really hope that is not what happens with tribunals, ‘a check the box’ mentality. But that actually seems the case…

 

[Joe_Kelley]

How often does a tribunal reach the conclusion that the annulment will not be granted? I always assumed that it was kind of a “check the box” process from what I have heard about it. What is the fail rate (for lack of a better term) of annulment cases that go before tribunals?

. If the Tribunal cannot issue a positive result, they will usually ask the petitioner to provide more evidence. It is easier to reopen the case in that circumstance than if the Tribunal had rejected the appeal and declared the marriage valid. These join a mass of cases which have been abandoned by the petitioner for various other reasons, e.g. the new marriage is not working out. Thus there are no good figures on how many are denied.

 

[plefe]

All of the necessary paperwork is in and has been in since February. The Annulment just has to pass through the judge and the appeal process before it’s complete. We are so close to the end but I feel like the case has come to a stop. Our payment is also complete and we thought that might boost it along but still it’s just resting on the judges desk awaiting his decision. It’s the waiting game that is a killer, it’s no longer in our hands, we have done everything that has been asked of us, the days just keep ticking away.

Does the priest have any pull with this type of situation?

Don’t you have a case advocate? A sponsor? Not only did I have an advocate who made phone calls to the Diocese, the Diocene Canon Lawyer worked very close with me. Took about a year. Nothing is a givin, but you should visit with the Diocese and or your Advocate.

 

[doanli]

I am very sorry to hear of this stress in your life during what should be such a happy time! I was granted an annulment but my circumstances were probably much different from yours.

I had decided to return to Catholicism as an adult. I was married for a short time as a young woman - not married in the church. I obtained a divorce, years later met my current husband and got married (civil ceremony - still wasn’t back ).

I was blessed with a child and that is when I knew I had to go back to church.

I had to complete ALL of the sacraments (except baptism) so I was told I needed to obtain an annulment from my first husband. He wasn’t Catholic. Because it was SO long ago, I had to get two witnesses to the reasons for the dissolution (my mom and sister did that for me) and I had to write a letter to my bishop explaining why I had divorced then it all went to my parish priest. He took it to the bishop – and after a relatively short time (within a few months) I had that annulment. Then my current husband and I got married in our church.

I am not sure why mine went so smoothly (by comparison) but I hope your issue gets resolved soon.

I am going through the process right now, and they want a current address of my ex-husband, who moved around all of the time because he didn’t pay the rent, lost jobs, etc. I gave them the internet provided address of his parents who surely would know where he is.

No problem, I got the addresses of the last 2 known residences of his, but the form letter they sent me made it sound like they wanted me to call him to verify the address.

This was a man who verbally, and one time physically, abused me.

He had a habit of stalking and phoning incessantly. I don’t want that in my life again. I don’t want him to know where I live and he can trace my phone number.

The man never had anything to do with the Catholic Church EVER during our relationship, other than my insistence on getting a church wedding, and maybe things change in 15 years, but why should I put my life in any more suffering caused by him than he has already done?

I was also told I could go to all the sacraments but Holy Communion in an “irregular marriage” (I have been married to my husband for 13 years with one son— my first “husband” was a little over a year), and was told recently I cannot go to any.

I am going to furnish the 2 different addresses and the 2 different phone numbers to the Tribunal and leave it at that. I am not going to put myself, nor my family, in peril from this man.

 

[moon1234]

I am going through the process right now, and they want a current address of my ex-husband, who moved around all of the time because he didn’t pay the rent, lost jobs, etc. I gave them the internet provided address of his parents who surely would know where he is.

No problem, I got the addresses of the last 2 known residences of his, but the form letter they sent me made it sound like they wanted me to call him to verify the address.

This was a man who verbally, and one time physically, abused me.

He had a habit of stalking and phoning incessantly. I don’t want that in my life again. I don’t want him to know where I live and he can trace my phone number.

The man never had anything to do with the Catholic Church EVER during our relationship, other than my insistence on getting a church wedding, and maybe things change in 15 years, but why should I put my life in any more suffering caused by him than he has already done?

I was also told I could go to all the sacraments but Holy Communion in an “irregular marriage” (I have been married to my husband for 13 years with one son— my first “husband” was a little over a year), and was told recently I cannot go to any.

I am going to furnish the 2 different addresses and the 2 different phone numbers to the Tribunal and leave it at that. I am not going to put myself, nor my family, in peril from this man.

I hate to tell you, but if you were married in the Catholic Church and there wasn’t some type of defect at the time of marriage, then they will most likely find you are still validly married to your first husband. For better or worse, does not mean if he gets worse you get to divorce him in the eyes of God.

A civil divorce to protect yourself or your assets (in the case of an addiction such as gambling) is allowed. What is not allowed is to start dating/marry someone else. This is why the Church traditionally requires Catholics to marry other Catholics and only after a clear amount of instruction to make sure the people know who they are marrying and that they understand the requirements of marriage.

 

[doanli]

I hate to tell you, but if you were married in the Catholic Church and there wasn’t some type of defect at the time of marriage, then they will most likely find you are still validly married to your first husband. For better or worse, does not mean if he gets worse you get to divorce him in the eyes of God.

A civil divorce to protect yourself or your assets (in the case of an addiction such as gambling) is allowed. What is not allowed is to start dating/marry someone else. This is why the Church traditionally requires Catholics to marry other Catholics and only after a clear amount of instruction to make sure the people know who they are marrying and that they understand the requirements of marriage.

There is more to the story than what I wrote last night, but as others have said here, it is in God’s hands.