Annulment delay

[AuburnHills]

I am Protestant. I was married for 13 years but divorced after learning the person I had married did not share the beliefs she claimed she did at the time of marriage (as evident by an affair she refused to end). The divorce was 12 years ago. I am now engaged to a Catholic woman who has never been married but wants to be married in the church, so I began the annulment process.
The process started in February 2016 and seemed to be initially making reasonable progress. I went before the Tribunal in May 2016. At that time they asked if I would be willing to speak to a counselor, and I said absolutely. All my witnesses immediately replied with their requested information as well. I now sit here over six months later and I’m being told the judge is deciding if I need to speak to a counselor. This seems absurd. Why is this a six month decision? It seems my case has been lost (they assure me it hasn’t). I have offered to provide additional documentation (no thanks) and offered to make myself available for additional interviews (no thanks again). I wrote them a check for $750 so it would seem I should get at least a little bit of progress, but as of now, they are just asking me to be patient. I am trying to be respectful to the Catholic Church, but it seems as though the favor is not being reciprocated. Any thoughts?

 

[AnnArbor]

In the Archdiocese of Detroit, an annulment typically takes about a year, so you are still within the window of typical. Additionally, annulment cases in many dioceses have ticked up a little, but the number of personnel to work on them has often decreased.

Also, the Archdiocese of Detroit is a court of second instance, meaning that, in addition to the petitions like yours, they also may be hearing appeal cases from other dioceses within Michigan.

With any luck, you should be hearing something in the not-too-distant future. I would try to remain patient.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I started my process around the same time. I have been told 18 months is the average time.
my patience is running out as well.
my personal opinion is this process should be reformed or eliminated completely. I am a convert. I am not engaged or looking to get married right now. I just wanted to get it out of the way.
you must love your fiance a lot to go through this for her. I admire you for that.
sometimes you are granted the annulment and sometimes not.
good luck!

 

[1ke]

I would encourage you to talk to your advocate if you haven’t already. There are too many variables for anyone here to give meaningful information. All people here can do is speculate. We don’t know your case or the tribunal workload.

 

[MaryT777]

I started my process around the same time. I have been told 18 months is the average time.
my patience is running out as well.
my personal opinion is this process should be reformed or eliminated completely. I am a convert. I am not engaged or looking to get married right now. I just wanted to get it out of the way.
you must love your fiance a lot to go through this for her. I admire you for that.good luck!

Hang in there. I went through the annulment process and it was a nightmare for me. I won’t expound on why but I could write a thesis on why the process should be reformed.

That said, the bottom line is if you want to marry in a Catholic Church, and need one to do so that’s the reality of the situation.
sometimes you are granted the annulment and sometimes not.

You are not alone in your frustration and God bless you for doing this for your fiancé. Mine took 18 months which seems ridiculous to me.

Praying for the both of you for the patience to deal with this and eventually most hopefully marry in the Catholic Church, the Church Jesus founded, and live in a Sacramental marriage with Jesus at the center.

God Bless, and Congratulations on your engagement.
Mary.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Hang in there. I went through the annulment process and it was a nightmare for me. I won’t expound on why but I could write a thesis on why the process should be reformed.

That said, the bottom line is if you want to marry in a Catholic Church, and need one to do so that’s the reality of the situation.
sometimes you are granted the annulment and sometimes not.

You are not alone in your frustration and God bless you for doing this for your fiancé. Mine took 18 months which seems ridiculous to me.

Praying for the both of you for the patience to deal with this and eventually most hopefully marry in the Catholic Church, the Church Jesus founded, and live in a Sacramental marriage with Jesus at the center.

God Bless, and Congratulations on your engagement.
Mary.

I am glad I am not the only one that thinks it is a nightmare.

 

[EricF]

My wife’s first marriage (neither baptized, no children, very young, and evidence she was coerced into the union) took well over three years in the tribunal. Seemed to me that was excessive.

 

[AuburnHills]

Thanks all. We are meeting with my advocate this weekend. I guess, from an outsider’s point of view, I struggle with the conflict that on one hand the Church says this is very important but on the other hand the Church doesn’t seem to care (at least not enough to do anything about it) to fix the process. I’ve spoken to a few priests who agree the process is broken and causing problems. Even the original forms I filled out had to be done by hand. When I pointed out that they could easily be provided in.PDF format, they all agreed. A year later, still being done by hand. In the meantime, my ex is using this to begin a new round of trying to make my life miserable. She has told the kids I want them declared illegitimate, refused to let the kids see any of my witnesses, and made my life more difficult. The Church doesn’t care and doesn’t seem interested in showing a little bit of that “Mercy”. Vent over. Thanks.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Thanks all. We are meeting with my advocate this weekend. I guess, from an outsider’s point of view, I struggle with the conflict that on one hand the Church says this is very important but on the other hand the Church doesn’t seem to care (at least not enough to do anything about it) to fix the process. I’ve spoken to a few priests who agree the process is broken and causing problems. Even the original forms I filled out had to be done by hand. When I pointed out that they could easily be provided in.PDF format, they all agreed. A year later, still being done by hand. In the meantime, my ex is using this to begin a new round of trying to make my life miserable. She has told the kids I want them declared illegitimate, refused to let the kids see any of my witnesses, and made my life more difficult. The Church doesn’t care and doesn’t seem interested in showing a little bit of that “Mercy”. Vent over. Thanks.

I agree. I don’t see any mercy in the annulments. Immigration receives more mercy than the divorced!

 

[dans0622]

Let it be noted that a six month delay is not part of “the process” as it stands. As a matter of fact, it is contrary to the requirements and expectations of “the process.”

“The process” does not require hand-written testimony. As a matter of fact, it should be done orally.

“The process” does not have any way of controlling the possibly vindictive actions of the other Party. I, at least, can’t think of any practical counter-measures.

Dan

 

[AuburnHills]

Dan,
Thanks for your reply. I did present to the Tribunal orally, but was required to submit answers to lengthy questions in an application in writing. Regarding vindictive third-parties, I agree the Church can’t control that. However if the Church can minimize the length of time this takes, it shortens the time span I will have to deal with it. I know my ex. She will remain very angry while this is happening, but will move on shortly after it ends.

 

[dans0622]

…However if the Church can minimize the length of time this takes, it shortens the time span I will have to deal with it. …

Hello,

Yes, I agree. Delays, almost 100% of the time, reflect a problem of personnel, not the process itself. That is my own view of the situation, anyway.

Dan

 

[psr13]

I started my process around the same time. I have been told 18 months is the average time.
my patience is running out as well.
my personal opinion is this process should be reformed or eliminated completely. I am a convert. I am not engaged or looking to get married right now. I just wanted to get it out of the way.
you must love your fiance a lot to go through this for her. I admire you for that.
sometimes you are granted the annulment and sometimes not.
good luck!

Something needs to be done with the annulment process. My civil husband has for years been trying to get an annulment for his first marriage. It was a nine month marriage and not done within the Church. What’s been holding it up for years? He can’t get his baptismal certificate, so no annulment for him. He was baptized in a church in the middle of the nowhere in the Philippines and cannot get in contact with them in order to get a copy of it. No priest or church official has any ideas on how to help him get it, either. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I agree, but I think the process needs to be reformed. It is terrible to put people through such a lengthy and agonizing process.

I realize those working for the tribunal have the process to follow, but it is a very frustrating process to go through.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Something needs to be done with the annulment process. My civil husband has for years been trying to get an annulment for his first marriage. It was a nine month marriage and not done within the Church. What’s been holding it up for years? He can’t get his baptismal certificate, so no annulment for him. He was baptized in a church in the middle of the nowhere in the Philippines and cannot get in contact with them in order to get a copy of it. No priest or church official has any ideas on how to help him get it, either. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

That is a shame.

 

[dans0622]

Something needs to be done with the annulment process. My civil husband has for years been trying to get an annulment for his first marriage. It was a nine month marriage and not done within the Church. What’s been holding it up for years? He can’t get his baptismal certificate, so no annulment for him. He was baptized in a church in the middle of the nowhere in the Philippines and cannot get in contact with them in order to get a copy of it. No priest or church official has any ideas on how to help him get it, either. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

Hello,

There is nothing in “the annulment process” which requires a case to be held up for years due to a lack of a baptismal certificate.

Dan

 

[dans0622]

I agree, but I think the process needs to be reformed. It is terrible to put people through such a lengthy and agonizing process.

I realize those working for the tribunal have the process to follow, but it is a very frustrating process to go through.

Hello,

“The process” is this: a person submits a petition. It is accepted. The other Party is notified and the petition is communicated to him/her. (Comments are accepted.) The “grounds” are formulated. (Comments are accepted). Evidence is collected. Evidence is made available (to the Parties) for their review/correction/amplification/etc. The case is concluded and “briefs” are submitted. A decision is handed down. Appeal is possible.

In your view, what part of this is not necessary and should be reformed?

Dan

 

[MaryT777]

I agree, but I think the process needs to be reformed. It is terrible to put people through such a lengthy and agonizing process.

I realize those working for the tribunal have the process to follow, but it is a very frustrating process to go through.

It is in great need of reform and I do believe we will see such in our lifetime.
Mary.

 

[AuburnHills]

Hello,

“The process” is this: a person submits a petition. It is accepted. The other Party is notified and the petition is communicated to him/her. (Comments are accepted.) The “grounds” are formulated. (Comments are accepted). Evidence is collected. Evidence is made available (to the Parties) for their review/correction/amplification/etc. The case is concluded and “briefs” are submitted. A decision is handed down. Appeal is possible.

In your view, what part of this is not necessary and should be reformed?

Dan

I truly don’t think most of the complaints are with the process as you describe it. The issue, at least for me, is how the people responsible for implementing the process go about it. There are multiple inefficiencies and huge gaps in time between the steps of the process. I get conflicting information from the Tribunal, my advocate, and articles published by the Diocese.

All of the steps you mention are reasonable and necessary (at least from this outsider’s view). But the Church needs to find a way to complete these steps without unnecessary delays. Just a few thoughts:

1. Make the petition forms available in PDF format online. I followed the instructions on my forms but was told I had to redo them a different way. They acknowledged that I followed the directions on the forms, but said the instructions were incorrect.
2. The forms for my witnesses could have been available online as well. I wasn’t given the forms until I met with the Tribunal. I could have had those completed prior to meeting with the Tribunal. The forms could also be completed online.
3. Enforce deadlines. My ex didn’t get her witnesses statements in within the 30 day deadline, so the deadline was extended. That’s not a deadline, that’s a suggestion.
4. My forms indicated I had sought counseling after my divorce. I said the same to the Tribunal. They asked if I would consent to the counselor providing information to the Tribunal and I immediately agreed. Two weeks later they sent me a consent form. That form could have been signed while I was at the Tribunal.
5. The Diocese allows me to check on the status every 3 months and only in writing. The Church could make this information available online as is done in schools, criminal and civil courts, and insurance companies.

There are many other opportunities to make the process work more efficiently without sacrificing the goal of the process.

 

[dans0622]

I truly don’t think most of the complaints are with the process as you describe it. The issue, at least for me, is how the people responsible for implementing the process go about it. There are multiple inefficiencies and huge gaps in time between the steps of the process. I get conflicting information from the Tribunal, my advocate, and articles published by the Diocese.

All of the steps you mention are reasonable and necessary (at least from this outsider’s view). But the Church needs to find a way to complete these steps without unnecessary delays. Just a few thoughts:

1. Make the petition forms available in PDF format online. I followed the instructions on my forms but was told I had to redo them a different way. They acknowledged that I followed the directions on the forms, but said the instructions were incorrect.
2. The forms for my witnesses could have been available online as well. I wasn’t given the forms until I met with the Tribunal. I could have had those completed prior to meeting with the Tribunal. The forms could also be completed online.
3. Enforce deadlines. My ex didn’t get her witnesses statements in within the 30 day deadline, so the deadline was extended. That’s not a deadline, that’s a suggestion.
4. My forms indicated I had sought counseling after my divorce. I said the same to the Tribunal. They asked if I would consent to the counselor providing information to the Tribunal and I immediately agreed. Two weeks later they sent me a consent form. That form could have been signed while I was at the Tribunal.
5. The Diocese allows me to check on the status every 3 months and only in writing. The Church could make this information available online as is done in schools, criminal and civil courts, and insurance companies.

There are many other opportunities to make the process work more efficiently without sacrificing the goal of the process.

Those are all worthy suggestions, it seems to me. The online access to current status…I don’t think that will happen within the next 50 years. “Yesterday’s technology, tomorrow.” That’s the basic reality in the Church.

As things are, there is no reason why you can’t call whenever you want and ask what’s going on (no reason, that is, as far as the law is concerned…some tribunals have different “policies”).

Dan