The entire process. I am a year into the process and witnesses are just now completing their questionnaires. If the tribunal is not satisfied with these answers does the process stop for lack of witnesses? My time frame is over 30 years ago that my witnesses must recall events.Hello,
“The process” is this: a person submits a petition. It is accepted. The other Party is notified and the petition is communicated to him/her. (Comments are accepted.) The “grounds” are formulated. (Comments are accepted). Evidence is collected. Evidence is made available (to the Parties) for their review/correction/amplification/etc. The case is concluded and “briefs” are submitted. A decision is handed down. Appeal is possible.
In your view, what part of this is not necessary and should be reformed?
Dan
Oh yes, my case was delayed because they could not use the testimony of one witness.The entire process. I am a year into the process and witnesses are just now completing their questionnaires. If the tribunal is not satisfied with these answers does the process stop for lack of witnesses? My time frame is over 30 years ago that my witnesses must recall events.
You make it sound as if each process happens quickly. As another poster stated, they are understaffed and probably have many to process.
I am afraid it will. Both witness’s are not Catholic and since I am a private person I don’t share my whole life story with everyone.Oh yes, my case was delayed because they could not use the testimony of one witness.
Why? ,She did not understand( I believe it was from what I could tell by the letter ) that the testimony needs to be referenced back to the time of consent at the time vows were exchanged.
I wonder how many witnesses even understand the process So yes mine was delayed due to lack of witnesses at that time.
Mary.
PS Hope that doesn’t happen to you.
Wow. If I tried to get an annulment I’d run into similar problems. I would only have one witness alive who could say anything about the relationship at the time of the wedding and even she may not remember enough to satisfy what they would ask for. Plus the fact that I was in love and would have brushed off any misgivings and not told even my potential witness about those things.I am afraid it will. Both witness’s are not Catholic and since I am a private person I don’t share my whole life story with everyone.
I felt penalized because I did not “air my dirty laundry” to people. My mother taught me marriage problems should be worked out between couples and not aired to every friend and inlaw or family.Wow. If I tried to get an annulment I’d run into similar problems. I would only have one witness alive who could say anything about the relationship at the time of the wedding and even she may not remember enough to satisfy what they would ask for. Plus the fact that I was in love and would have brushed off any misgivings and not told even my potential witness about those things.
I think the entire process needs to be reformed.
I couldn’t agree more. Yes, if you are Catholic be sure to air your dirty laundry to everyone and don’t leave anything out! This is the only way you will have witnesses!I felt penalized because I did not “air my dirty laundry” to people. My mother taught me marriage problems should be worked out between couples and not aired to every friend and inlaw or family.
Thus, it’s difficult to drum up witnesses if you are that type of person. Many people non Catholic think the process is burdensome and non Biblical so one non Catholic friend I had refused to “witness” as did my mother who was divorced back when the Church I do believe she said excommunicated you for remarriage. I don’t know if that’s correct but that was her understanding.
I kid you not, I feel like telling people if your marriage is failing and it looks headed for divorce and you are Catholic tell EVERYONE every detail of the issues of your marriage and how you now realize at the time of consent, he or she had this or that issue, or you yourself had unresolved issues to get enough witnesses.
Good grief, I praise God for Pope Francis looking for a more pastoral approach to this issue.
That is my take on it and I did not find it remotely healing as a process.
That said there are those who find it healing and I pray that is the case for more people.
Mary.
My wife had only one witness who was still alive…she had to see a “special witness” also and give a testimony…both were accepted by the tribunal…it also took months for her to get her Baptismal certificate from the small Protestant church where she was Baptized…the whole process took nearly 18 months for her annulment…that was just prior to last Easter…I understand the process has been streamlined since then…not sure if the changes have been put into effect in all diocese…don’t give up.Wow. If I tried to get an annulment I’d run into similar problems. I would only have one witness alive who could say anything about the relationship at the time of the wedding and even she may not remember enough to satisfy what they would ask for. Plus the fact that I was in love and would have brushed off any misgivings and not told even my potential witness about those things.
I think the entire process needs to be reformed.
what is a special witness?My wife had only one witness who was still alive…she had to see a “special witness” also and give a testimony…both were accepted by the tribunal…it also took months for her to get her Baptismal certificate from the small Protestant church where she was Baptized…the whole process took nearly 18 months for her annulment…that was just prior to last Easter…I understand the process has been streamlined since then…not sure if the changes have been put into effect in all diocese…don’t give up.
My wife had to see a special witness (Psychologist) to relate the circumstances of her first marriage because she could only get the one live witness…our diocese gave my wife the name of the person and she made the appointment for the interview…the tribunal accepted the finding from the special witness and the letter from the original witness…my wife did have to pay a fee of $300 for the psychologist…I should imagine all diocese have this option for such cases…I’m surprised your advocate hasn’t told you of that option…I assume the psychologist is one who also has to vet priests as she had to wait for about 6 weeks to get interviewed as the Psychologist was interviewing priests…or future priest…not sure.what is a special witness?
I’m not divorced, nor am I considering one but I didn’t know how tiresome the annulment process is. God bless Pope Francis for working on making it easier on all the parties.I felt penalized because I did not “air my dirty laundry” to people. My mother taught me marriage problems should be worked out between couples and not aired to every friend and inlaw or family.
Thus, it’s difficult to drum up witnesses if you are that type of person. Many people non Catholic think the process is burdensome and non Biblical so one non Catholic friend I had refused to “witness” as did my mother who was divorced back when the Church I do believe she said excommunicated you for remarriage. I don’t know if that’s correct but that was her understanding.
I kid you not, I feel like telling people if your marriage is failing and it looks headed for divorce and you are Catholic tell EVERYONE every detail of the issues of your marriage and how you now realize at the time of consent, he or she had this or that issue, or you yourself had unresolved issues to get enough witnesses.
Good grief, I praise God for Pope Francis looking for a more pastoral approach to this issue.
That is my take on it and I did not find it remotely healing as a process.
That said there are those who find it healing and I pray that is the case for more people.
Mary.
thanks for the advice. I don’t have $300 though to pay a psychologist.My wife had to see a special witness (Psychologist) to relate the circumstances of her first marriage because she could only get the one live witness…our diocese gave my wife the name of the person and she made the appointment for the interview…the tribunal accepted the finding from the special witness and the letter from the original witness…my wife did have to pay a fee of $300 for the psychologist…I should imagine all diocese have this option for such cases…I’m surprised your advocate hasn’t told you of that option…I assume the psychologist is one who also has to vet priests as she had to wait for about 6 weeks to get interviewed as the Psychologist was interviewing priests…or future priest…not sure.
Thankfully, he has made it financially easier (this is up to each diocese) and has streamlined some of the process, but has not gone far enoughIin my opinion. The detail of the information required seems an invasion of privacy and I actually find the whole process abusive.I’m not divorced, nor am I considering one but I didn’t know how tiresome the annulment process is. God bless Pope Francis for working on making it easier on all the parties.
I do believe that in cases of financial hardship the tribunal will take that into consideration…I’m not sure of the special witness as I should imagine they are not employed by the church but rather the church uses their service…it may still be worthwhile asking your advocate…or even contacting the diocese handling your case what your option are…I can only speak for what my wife went through…not all diocese tribunals handle annulments the same …I believe now that the process has been changed somewhat where the local Bishop can be the arbiter in annulments so you might not have to go through a lengthy or costly process at all.thanks for the advice. I don’t have $300 though to pay a psychologist.
thank you so much for your advice! the annullments in our diocese are cost free at the moment. I would be willing to sit down with a priest or someone the diocese suggests if they want me to do anything like that. both my witnesses felt it was so long ago and they really didn’t have enough information to answer some of the questions on the questionaire.I do believe that in cases of financial hardship the tribunal will take that into consideration…I’m not sure of the special witness as I should imagine they are not employed by the church but rather the church uses their service…it may still be worthwhile asking your advocate…or even contacting the diocese handling your case what your option are…I can only speak for what my wife went through…not all diocese tribunals handle annulments the same …I believe now that the process has been changed somewhat where the local Bishop can be the arbiter in annulments so you might not have to go through a lengthy or costly process at all.
You’ve received great advice. I would do everything possible to make sure you get a fair chance at a fair review of your situation.thank you so much for your advice! the annullments in our diocese are cost free at the moment. I would be willing to sit down with a priest or someone the diocese suggests if they want me to do anything like that. both my witnesses felt it was so long ago and they really didn’t have enough information to answer some of the questions on the questionaire.
Thanks Mary. I probably have another 6 months ahead of me unless they keep asking for more witnesses and I tell them just to forget everything and stop the process.You’ve received great advice. I would do everything possible to make sure you get a fair chance at a fair review of your situation.
Praying of you for patience, LOL< I needed much of it> and that all goes well for you,
A sister in Christ,
Mary.
Yes, I know how you feel. I think people who think getting a marriage declared invalid is just an easy rubber stamp process have no clue what it takes to do so. It’s emotionally draining as can be. I can’t recall how many tears I cried when I needed another witness and BEGGED my mother to help me out which she did.Thanks Mary. I probably have another 6 months ahead of me unless they keep asking for more witnesses and I tell them just to forget everything and stop the process.
It just isn’t worth the anxiety this is causing.
Yes. Too much bureaucratic red tape and doesn’t seem to be any concern for a person to go back and rehash a painful past.I think the process has gotten better. Over fifty years ago my mom’s annulment hit a wall when trying to get a response from her ex. No one could find him, he was in another country. Plenty of witnesses, in fact, they were the ones encouraging her to (re)marry to my dad. They waited five years. Before my half brother turned 10, they married civilly. Dad wanted to give my mom and brother a home. She was abandoned by her first husband when my brother was born because he didn’t want children. So, I believe my family suffered by this process. Had a godly priest sat down with everyone, he could have sorted it all out. Instead of disinterested laity who love bureaucratic redtape and do not realize the names on the forms are actually people, with souls.