Annulment for a non-Catholic?

[T_More]

I hope I’m posting this in the right section, but I really need an answer for this for a friend, so here it goes:

A man and woman, how have never been Catholic (or validly baptized) recently finalized a divorce. The man (who has no intention of becoming Catholic), who is now dating a Catholic woman (whose husband has passed away), wants to marry her. Would the Church ask that he seek an annulment even though he was never married in the Church and his potential bride’s previous husband passed away?

This man has told me that he has spoken to a deacon in the diocese and that this deacon has told him “Oh sure, it’s no problem.” This just doesn’t sound right to me. Why would a non Catholic need to seek an annulment for the bride’s sake when her previous husband has passed away and this man has never been vailidy baptized, never been Catholic and has no intention of being Catholic? Can someone help me out with what canon law says about this? Thanks!

 

[revert_jen]

I’m just guessing, but I think it is that the Church assumes a “valid unless proven otherwise” stance on all mariages. I don’t think it would be a hard thing to get a declaration of nullity (or is it defect of form in this case?) for a marriage between unbaptised people. It’s just that the Church is going to assume ALL marriages are valid until someone shows them otherwise.

It might be harder to get the dispensation allowing a Catholic to marry a non-Christian.

–Jen

 

[Seatuck]

I hope I’m posting this in the right section, but I really need an answer for this for a friend, so here it goes:

A man and woman, how have never been Catholic (or validly baptized) recently finalized a divorce. The man (who has no intention of becoming Catholic), who is now dating a Catholic woman (whose husband has passed away), wants to marry her. Would the Church ask that he seek an annulment even though he was never married in the Church and his potential bride’s previous husband passed away?

This man has told me that he has spoken to a deacon in the diocese and that this deacon has told him “Oh sure, it’s no problem.” This just doesn’t sound right to me. Why would a non Catholic need to seek an annulment for the bride’s sake when her previous husband has passed away and this man has never been vailidy baptized, never been Catholic and has no intention of being Catholic? Can someone help me out with what canon law says about this? Thanks!

He does need an annulment or at least to have the marriage looked at from a Catholic perspective. The church needs to determine if he is free to marry. Non Christians have the right to marry in any type of ceremony that they wish and they can have a valid marriage. Divorce doesn’t make a marriage invalid. A Catholic woman should know better than to seriously date a person who is already married. Saves a lot of aggravation while the marriage is looked at and especially if the marriage seems to have been valid. Since the couple were non baptized there is at least one other option other than to go through the whole annulment route. A meeting with a priest is required.

 

[Corki]

I hope I’m posting this in the right section, but I really need an answer for this for a friend, so here it goes:

A man and woman, how have never been Catholic (or validly baptized) recently finalized a divorce. The man (who has no intention of becoming Catholic), who is now dating a Catholic woman (whose husband has passed away), wants to marry her. Would the Church ask that he seek an annulment even though he was never married in the Church and his potential bride’s previous husband passed away?

This man has told me that he has spoken to a deacon in the diocese and that this deacon has told him “Oh sure, it’s no problem.” This just doesn’t sound right to me. Why would a non Catholic need to seek an annulment for the bride’s sake when her previous husband has passed away and this man has never been vailidy baptized, never been Catholic and has no intention of being Catholic? Can someone help me out with what canon law says about this? Thanks!

The woman has no issues - as a widow, she is free to marry.

The man is considered still married, however. He validly married someone previously. As a non-Catholic, he was not required to have a Catholic wedding. His marriage is considered valid but not Sacramental until proven otherwise. A marriage tribunal, after proper investigation is the only way to determine if the first marriage may have been defective enough to be considered null.

Why would this not seem “right”? How else would the man show that he is free to marry?

 

[Seatuck]

T, More

archchicago.org/departments/tribunal/faq.shtm

See if these questions and answers help you with understanding the situation.

 

[carpetim]

Canon Law 1055 states that “the matrimonial covenant…has been raised by Christ the Lord to the dignity of a sacrament between the baptized.” The Catechism states in #1640 that “the marriage bond has been established by God himself in such a way that a marriage concluded and consummated between baptized persons can never be dissolved.”

So if the gentleman in question has not been baptized his first marriage could not have been a sacramental marriage. Since an annulment seeks to determine the sacramental nature and validity of a marriage it would be unnecessary to pursue such action in his case. It is clear that the marriage was not sacramental since neither of the two parties were baptized.

Hope this helps.

 

[T_More]

Why would this not seem “right”? How else would the man show that he is free to marry?

Hi Corki! It just strikes me as unusual that since the man is now divorced and was never a Catholic that the Church would need to determine if his marriage was invalid or valid, that’s all. How would they determine that? Would use of contraception, for instance, be grounds for the Church to determine that?

 

[joanofarc2008]

It has nothing to do with the man’s standing as a Catholic. It has to do with the fact the man will be marrying in the Catholic Church should he marry this Catholic woman. In order to do this he must be free of impediments. In this case his prior marriage which is presumed valid as we share the Sacraments of Baptism and Matrimony with our Christian brothers and Sisters is an impediment to marriage within the Catholic Church. The only way for this man to marry this woman in the Catholic Church is for him to receive a declaration of nullity. That is unless of course he decides to convert and then he may have a couple of other options on how to go about getting a declaration of nullity - for instance Petrine Privelege. (I think but I am not very good when it comes to Petrine/Pauline Privelege)

 

[T_More]

It has nothing to do with the man’s standing as a Catholic. It has to do with the fact the man will be marrying in the Catholic Church should he marry this Catholic woman. In order to do this he must be free of impediments. In this case his prior marriage which is presumed valid as we share the Sacraments of Baptism and Matrimony with our Christian brothers and Sisters is an impediment to marriage within the Catholic Church. The only way for this man to marry this woman in the Catholic Church is for him to receive a declaration of nullity. That is unless of course he decides to convert and then he may have a couple of other options on how to go about getting a declaration of nullity - for instance Petrine Privelege. (I think but I am not very good when it comes to Petrine/Pauline Privelege)

Thanks Joan! He has stated that he has no intention of becoming Catholic, so I’m thinking he only has the one option you stated, correct?

 

[1ke]

Would the Church ask that he seek an annulment even though he was never married in the Church and his potential bride’s previous husband passed away?

Yes.

He is not free to marry. He has a prior bond. Marriage between the unbaptized and/or baptized non-Catholics is valid.

He has two avenues. He can pursue a decree of nullity or a dissolution of the bond via the Pauline or Petrine Privilege depending upon the baptismal status of his prior spouse.

Of course, this is a generality. There could be other circumstances that would bear on the situation that are not enumerated in your post (baptismal status of the first spouse, prior marriage on the part of either of them, etc). Because we can only speak in generalaities here, the parties need to make an appointment with the pastor and lay out all the details.

This man has told me that he has spoken to a deacon in the diocese and that this deacon has told him “Oh sure, it’s no problem.” This just doesn’t sound right to me. Why would a non Catholic need to seek an annulment for the bride’s sake when her previous husband has passed away and this man has never been vailidy baptized, never been Catholic and has no intention of being Catholic? Can someone help me out with what canon law says about this? Thanks!

Because non-Catholic marriages are valid.

And, I don’t know if I would classify it as “no problem”. I see lots of problems, the first of which is a Catholic marrying an “recently divorced” non-Catholic. But that is a different thread.

I suggest reviewing this chart. It summarizes things nicely.

diocs.org/Portals/1/Documents/Tribunal/Decision_matrix.pdf

 

[1ke]

I’m just guessing, but I think it is that the Church assumes a “valid unless proven otherwise” stance on all mariages. I don’t think it would be a hard thing to get a declaration of nullity (or is it defect of form in this case?) for a marriage between unbaptised people.

No it is not a “defect of form” case because the parties involved are not Catholics.

It is not “easier” to obtain a decree of nullity for an unbaptized person. The grounds for nullity are the same for everyone. One avenue open to the unbaptized is dissolution of the bond via Pauline or Petrine Privilege.

 

[1ke]

Hi Corki! It just strikes me as unusual that since the man is now divorced and was never a Catholic that the Church would need to determine if his marriage was invalid or valid, that’s all.

Marriage is not a unique institution to Catholicism.

How would they determine that?

Same way they do for everyone else. Through a full Tribunal investigation, provided the man can prove he has grounds. Grounds are based on the divine law impediments enumerated in canon law along with a determination regarding valid consent and intent at the time the vows are exchanged.

Would use of contraception, for instance, be grounds for the Church to determine that?

That is not, in-and-of-itself a canonical ground for nullity. Grounds are the same for Catholics and non-Catholics.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Thanks Joan! He has stated that he has no intention of becoming Catholic, so I’m thinking he only has the one option you stated, correct?

With a qualified - from the information given here- there may be more that we are not aware of so they should definetly speak to the priest/deacon that would be handling the pre-Cana.

 

[Corki]

Hi Corki! It just strikes me as unusual that since the man is now divorced and was never a Catholic that the Church would need to determine if his marriage was invalid or valid, that’s all. How would they determine that? Would use of contraception, for instance, be grounds for the Church to determine that?

1ke answered most of this but the main issue is that the man is not single. Divorced is not the same as single. In order to be married, both spouses must be single (or widowed). An annulment investigation is not to determine if a Catholic marriage existed; it determines if **any **marriage existed. Most non-Catholic marriages are perfectly valid.

The process is exactly the same. The tribunal is looking at what the situation was at the time the marriage occurred to determine if it was validly contracted. The reason it’s a Catholic tribunal (which I think is behind your question) is that other Church’s and denominations do not conduct investigations of validity.

 

[blueadept]

Hi Corki! It just strikes me as unusual that since the man is now divorced and was never a Catholic that the Church would need to determine if his marriage was invalid or valid, that’s all. How would they determine that? Would use of contraception, for instance, be grounds for the Church to determine that?

The RCC tries to protect the sanctity of all marriages regardless if they are Catholic or not that’s between one man and one woman. The church recognized my wife’s LDS marriage and they reviewed what the status of the individuals were when they said their vows. In this case, there were issues in regards to him questioning if he was doing the right thing in marrying since there were SSA issues he had. So we received a favorable ruling.

The point is that the church tries to honor all marriages regardless if they are Catholic or not.

 

[1ke]

Thanks Joan! He has stated that he has no intention of becoming Catholic, so I’m thinking he only has the one option you stated, correct?

The Pauline and Petrine Privilege may also be options depending upon the baptismal statuses of parties involved.

A person does not have to be a Catholic or become a Catholic to petition for dissolution of the natural bond.

 

[revert_jen]

No it is not a “defect of form” case because the parties involved are not Catholics.

It is not “easier” to obtain a decree of nullity for an unbaptized person. The grounds for nullity are the same for everyone. One avenue open to the unbaptized is dissolution of the bond via Pauline or Petrine Privilege.

OK. I did say I was guessing. I was thinking that since it is not possible for the non-baptized to have a sacramental marriage, it would probably be easier to get an annulment for a natural marriage.

Thanks!

–Jen

 

[1ke]

OK. I did say I was guessing. I was thinking that since it is not possible for the non-baptized to have a sacramental marriage, it would probably be easier to get an annulment for a natural marriage.

It isn’t. Sacramentality or non-sacramentality have no bearing on nullity.

Now, a natural marriage does have another avenue-- dissolution of the natural bond. That is not a declaration of nullity. It is the dissolution of a valid marriage.

 

[mro]

My mom is a quaker and my dad is catholic… Ive had some catholics tell me that their marriage isn’t valid because it was a civil marriage before a judge…

Not exactly an annulement scenario but oh well…

 

[joanofarc2008]

My mom is a quaker and my dad is catholic… Ive had some catholics tell me that their marriage isn’t valid because it was a civil marriage before a judge…

Not exactly an annulement scenario but oh well…

If your mother was a baptized Catholic prior to the marriage and they did not receive permission to marry outside of the Church than yes their marriage is not valid due to lack of form. However, are you sure that their marriage was not convalidated at a later date or that radical sanitation was not applied for and granted?