Annulment for my future children?

[whatevergirl]

Come one - even YOU were not born with the knowledge of the annulment process coded into your DNA, you had to learn it at some point.

Cut her some slack - she’s asking questions, she’s trying to do the right thing. I think this is much more of an issue of just plain not knowing how it all works than a lack of desire to live her Faith.

Millions of Catholics have been poorly catechized over the last 40+ years. THIS is a place for people to come and learn how to live that Faith more fully and completely. To automatically, after ONE POST from this woman, you are ready to say that she does not have her priorities in line is just shocking, …though not surprising.

This could very well be the begining of her bringing herself and her husband back in line with the Church. I pray that is the case, and folks like you don’t push them ever farther away than they already are when all she does is ask simple questions about something she clearly does not understand.

Sheesh.

~Liza

Yeah, I agree here. The first post is vague at best. Not enough information to determine if the OP is interested or not in attending mass, etc. I am assuming she is, and came here just seeking help.

 

[agapewolf]

Come one - even YOU were not born with the knowledge of the annulment process coded into your DNA, you had to learn it at some point.

Cut her some slack - she’s asking questions, she’s trying to do the right thing. I think this is much more of an issue of just plain not knowing how it all works than a lack of desire to live her Faith.

Millions of Catholics have been poorly catechized over the last 40+ years. THIS is a place for people to come and learn how to live that Faith more fully and completely. To automatically, after ONE POST from this woman, you are ready to say that she does not have her priorities in line is just shocking, …though not surprising.

This could very well be the begining of her bringing herself and her husband back in line with the Church. I pray that is the case, and folks like you don’t push them ever farther away than they already are when all she does is ask simple questions about something she clearly does not understand.

Sheesh.

~Liza

Your attacking me here does no good. I never said I knew everything. This has nothing to do with knowing the annulment process

I read the first post, plain and simple. She said is the “ONLY WAY” to ensure her children get the sacraments is to get the annulment. I read nothing into her desire or not.
She never even said she wanted one.
I was simply reading what was on the page.

And I answered the question, why in the world does she care that the kids get the sacraments when she doesn’t care about herself? -that is exactly what she was asking about…how to get the kids to the sacraments around the fact that her marriage isn’t in the church. This one post was clear that the priorities were not in order. Remember, they are just starting to plan the family. They dont’ even have kids yet. This is premeditated to get the kids sacraments, way in the future, without regularizing the marriage

 

[Pug]

Good day, I don’t think the children are punished for whatever mistakes or sins the parents make, but then again I could be mistaken…I thought it has stated somewhere in the Bible that whatever mistakes from the “father” will be punishable up to 5 generations?! Maybe I have been misinformed??? But I don’t think the children should be punished for the sins or mistakes of parents…

Definitely not. The children are not being punished by the Church. What the posts here reflect is this canon from the canon law:

Can. 868 §1. For an infant to be baptized licitly:
1/ the parents or at least one of them or the person who legitimately takes their place must consent;
2/ there must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up in the Catholic religion; if such hope is altogether lacking, the baptism is to be delayed according to the prescripts of particular law after the parents have been advised about the reason.

This is saying for the average healthy infant to be licitly baptized straightaway, the must be a founded hope that the infant will be brought up Catholic. Some priests make the determination that a couple who is not in compliance with the laws of marriage will not do so. They feel this is the best course for the child. It is not meant to punish the child at all.

To the OP:

Please note that if the child remains unbaptized and is now in danger of death, say by sickness, ask the priest again right away. The answer you receive at that point will be different in substance. Rules are often slightly different in the case of danger of death. And they are for baptism. Also, a layperson can perform an emergency baptism. That includes a Catholic who is not in good standing who has a dying infant in her arms.

 

[lizaanne]

I read the first post, plain and simple. She said is the “ONLY WAY” to ensure her children get the sacraments is to get the annulment. I read nothing into her desire or not.

You said:

agapewolf:

She doesn’t have the intention of doing the complete right thing-the priorities are screwed up.

How is this not “reading into her desire”? You are making the statement that her priorities are screwed up, based on ONE post on and internet forum.

I was simply reading what was on the page.

Very good - and perhaps ASKING her to clarify her intent so you can more fully understand instead of jumping to massive conclusions just might be a good idea, don’t you think?

…why in the world does she care that the kids get the sacraments when she doesn’t care about herself?

Where in the world do you get that she does not care about herself? You know NOTHING about her from that post. You have no idea what she knows or does not know about what she is responsible for after divorce. Come on, you have been a member here for a long time now, how many times do people come here who just don’t know what they can and can’t do when they are divorced. It happens all the time. And yet you accuse her of not having her priorities in order. Perhaps - just maybe - if she is led in the right direction and instructed properly she will have the KNOWLEDGE she needs to do the right thing.

-that is exactly what she was asking about…how to get the kids to the sacraments around the fact that her marriage isn’t in the church.

Did you ever stop to consider that she asked THIS question because it was the one she wanted an answer to, and she is working on the other parts of her issue elsewhere?

This one post was clear that the priorities were not in order. Remember, they are just starting to plan the family. They dont’ even have kids yet. This is premeditated to get the kids sacraments, way in the future, without regularizing the marriage

And again - you assume she knows EVERYTHING she is supposed to know about her marriage situation. Now if that is the case, and she is fully aware that she is living in a state of sin and just doesn’t care, then I’m with you all the way. But until we know that is the case you have absolutely NOTHING to go by to make that assumption. Nothing. So when a woman comes here for help and advise, and someone throws her under the bus and tells her that she has her priorities out of whack, you darn well better believe I’m going to stand up for her and give her the benefit of the doubt until I know otherwise.

~Liza

 

[iluvmybabies]

You said:

How is this not “reading into her desire”? You are making the statement that her priorities are screwed up, based on ONE post on and internet forum.

Very good - and perhaps ASKING her to clarify her intent so you can more fully understand instead of jumping to massive conclusions just might be a good idea, don’t you think?

Where in the world do you get that she does not care about herself? You know NOTHING about her from that post. You have no idea what she knows or does not know about what she is responsible for after divorce. Come on, you have been a member here for a long time now, how many times do people come here who just don’t know what they can and can’t do when they are divorced. It happens all the time. And yet you accuse her of not having her priorities in order. Perhaps - just maybe - if she is led in the right direction and instructed properly she will have the KNOWLEDGE she needs to do the right thing.

Did you ever stop to consider that she asked THIS question because it was the one she wanted an answer to, and she is working on the other parts of her issue elsewhere?

And again - you assume she knows EVERYTHING she is supposed to know about her marriage situation. Now if that is the case, and she is fully aware that she is living in a state of sin and just doesn’t care, then I’m with you all the way. But until we know that is the case you have absolutely NOTHING to go by to make that assumption. Nothing. So when a woman comes here for help and advise, and someone throws her under the bus and tells her that she has her priorities out of whack, you darn well better believe I’m going to stand up for her and give her the benefit of the doubt until I know otherwise.

~Liza

Hi lizaanne, I am with you on this…I do believe the OP needs to be guided or at least shown in the right direction…I had a friend of mine whom told me about Catholic Forumz several years ago, I never came here…

She told me she came here lost, she was living with her life partner, a Catholic woman, and she was not married with their 3 children…She thought she needed more or wanted more you know religious wise, she was lost…Her bf is Catholic as well…She came here because she said she needed guidance and heard from other people that this was a great place…So she gave it a try and was thrown “under the bus”… She was devastated and told me why she didn’t want to be a Catholic any more. She said that she knew she was living in sin but needed direction and wasn’t sure how to do things especially since she wanted to have another baby…

All her children are baptized Catholics, but she felt so horrible because she was like “Oh I am damned to hell!” I didn’t want to give this place a try, I was like “great I am divorced and all wonder how it’s going to go for me?!” She even felt more of a sinner than ever and even worthless… I came here to see how it was and I was told a lot of things too, and sometimes it seemed that what I was doing so terribly and getting “attacked” because I would try to justify or explain and even apologize for how terrible I was, made me feel even worst… Other times they were supportive and kind and made me feel loved among great people whom shared in with Christ, and made me feel like I belonged…Like I had a family…even if it was an online family…Someone to share stories with and support and help even if it was just for a few minutes on the computer…There are so many times I felt empty and alone and coming here has made me feel better…And getting closer to GOD has helped too…Yes I get over dramatized over certain situations but I have gone and am going through a lot and having someone just tell me you know what it’s going to be ok, makes all the difference…Maybe I shouldn’t need someone to tell me and I should be able to just know that GOD is taking care of it, but after being so overwhelmed the support of a friendly person makes all the difference…

I mean I come here to seek support where I can’t get it anywhere else, and to give some too…even if it’s a small wish or prayer…I know the feeling of needing to be guided…

I mean if I want to be told what a horrible sinner I am and how terrible I am I can just go talk to my parents…LOL…(inside joke-sorry)…

There are times the support is challenging and may even seem condescending, but I understand people need to be pointed in the right direction and even woken up from what they are doing wrong, but I just sometimes feel that telling someone what a huge mistake they are in and stuff just might not help them realize it either… Instead make them want to turn away…I guess sometimes those people, myself included want to hear that there may still be a chance if we are pointed in the right direction and given a chance…And sometimes just a little, hug might be all a person needs to welcome GOD back into their lives…And lead through a righteous path…

I understand what it’s like to be lost and not knowing the right ways of doing things…And being unable to find yourself within your own religion… And I appreciate all the advice and support given to me and I am sure the OP is grateful for having some good advice too…

Just hope she comes back and lets us know a little more that way we can help her out better…

Besides if we treat others the way Jesus treated us, I think there would be more people willing to listen to the Catholic teachings instead of trying to turn away to another religion just because they may feel there is no hope for them…

Just a thought…

And hopefully the OP will come back and let us know that all is going well! GOD bless you all! Good day!

 

[pia]

agapewolf does bring up a valid point. He’s getting at the “Children, we want you to respect and partake in the sacraments even though we don’t.”

Why set a double standard for your children? It’s like telling them to eat their veggies when you don’t yourself

The advice clementine is getting is to make things right with God before they have children for this very reson.

I understand the point that was made and agree with you, but at the same time it was her first post and sometimes when we have questions we need answers to they sometimes comes across in the wrong way, and i just think there are ways and means of answering these questions. not everyone is up to speed on the ins and outs of divorce and all the other problems that come along with it. I did not see any help or advice in agapewolf’s posting. God Bless

 

[pia]

I wasn’t knocking anyone. She doesn’t have the intention of doing the complete right thing-the priorities are screwed up.

Well you certainly did’nt give her any advice which is what she asked for. As for " her priorities being screwed up" I would rather like to think ( until i have been told otherwise) that she is trying to do the right thing for herself aswell as her future children. As with regards to her post, you know sometimes when you have questions going around in your head and want answers to them and put them down on paper they don’t always come across in the right way or order for that matter. I would rather assume the better of someone than the worst and at the end of the day give them the best advice you can to help them find their way back the church. God Bless

 

[agapewolf]

WAAAIT a minute.

Everyone seems to not have bothered to read the very first post. She is VERY aware that she was not in a marriage in the church, and that she needed an annullment to do so, AND that it would be preferred by the church. I’m not assuming anything. That is on black and white.

2nd. She is asking how to Get around that fact to raise her kids in the church.

This is just so basic, I disagree that my post was out of line at all. I made no assumptions, its in black and white that the OP wants raise her kids in the church without the annulment.

And to pia, I DID give advice. Read my post that was in response to her. I said
I hope and pray that you will go through the process necessary to see if your first marriage is valid.

 

[Pug]

Maybe the original poster (OP) is just a little nervous to approach the parish priest, and what will make her feel more comfortable is to have some idea of how the conversation will go in advance, before she is stuck there in his office with all sorts of unexpected things being said. Maybe she just likes to have an idea of what the answer will be before she asks in person, at least when the topic is so close to home. She could just be thinking out loud, and not really trying to express her every thought in that one post. I think in hypotheticals all the time. That drives other people nuts, but it does not mean I am trying to find the bare minimum or the loophole or anything. I just want to know the truth for every angle, even if I would never take that angle myself. For example, I’ve been taken for pro-choice unexpectedly on these forums more than once (Yikes, quite distressing). I’m not! It all hinged on my use of the word “corpse” and my tendency to ask hypothetical questions.

I can’t say what for sure is in the OP’s mind at this point, with only one post, especially if she has little experience with how people will perceive her on a discussion board. I don’t yet know what she wants in her life. I’m not even sure if she knows. That’s why I asked her directly what she thought about Catholicism for herself.

For all I know, she thinks getting an annulment will take five years and she suspects she is already pregnant, but didn’t want to share that news with us, so she is worried what will happen nine months from now, with the annulment some pie in the sky light years away.

(agapewolf, I’m not saying your post was out of line, BTW. I’m just saying what I think I really know from her post…not much).

 

[pia]

I fear clementine has been frightened off coming back here and seeking help, what a terrible shame.

 

[lizaanne]

I fear clementine has been frightened off coming back here and seeking help, what a terrible shame.

I can hardly blame her if she never comes back.

~Liza