Annulment needed for this?

[James_2_24]

I have a brother-in-law who will be marrying very soon. The person whom he will be marrying has been married before w/ children.

My brother-in-law and the woman he will be marrying are both Catholic.

He says that they were told by a Priest that she doesnt need to seek an annulment since her prior marriage was not in the Church.

I don’t think what the Priest said is true, I think they do need an annulment…

Can someone please clarify this for me? Also, can you cite the source for your answer?

Thanks!

 

[agapewolf]

Not knowing the whole situation… and only from the info you gave me…

She doesn’t have to go through the full annullment process with a tribunal jury and all that…

She has to go through a process of paperwork that is called “defect of form”. It is much easier and shorter and less involved than the full annullment.

Some people refer to the “defect of form” also as an annullment, which I suppose it is.

They may have been told this information in meeting with the priest, and not understanding that semantics can lead to misunderstanding, are now saying they do not need an annullment, when actually, they just don’t have to go through the jury process.

If the priest is not requireing paperwork at all, then there is a problem. Lots of circumstances change things (like, if she was not Catholic before when she was married.)

 

[LeahInancsi]

Not knowing the whole situation… and only from the info you gave me…

She doesn’t have to go through the full annullment process with a tribunal jury and all that…

She has to go through a process of paperwork that is called “defect of form”. It is much easier and shorter and less involved than the full annullment.

Some people refer to the “defect of form” also as an annullment, which I suppose it is.

They may have been told this information in meeting with the priest, and not understanding that semantics can lead to misunderstanding, are now saying they do not need an annullment, when actually, they just don’t have to go through the jury process.

If the priest is not requireing paperwork at all, then there is a problem. Lots of circumstances change things (like, if she was not Catholic before when she was married.)

I don’t think this is true. I’m sure that more knowledgable people can give a different persective on this question. A man in my RCIA class had to get an annulment before he could join the Church because he had previously been married in a Luthern church and that marriage ended in divorce.

More information is needed regarding the woman’s ex-husband and where they were married (JOP?). IMO

 

[LeahInancsi]

I suspect an annulment is necessary. Someone else can go into more detail with more information about the brides ex-husband.

 

[quiet52]

The Catholic Teaching on Annulment (see “Lack or Defect of Canonical Form”):

kofc.org/rc/en/publications/cis/publications/veritas/Veritas_CIS301.pdf

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I have a brother-in-law who will be marrying very soon. The person whom he will be marrying has been married before w/ children.

My brother-in-law and the woman he will be marrying are both Catholic.

He says that they were told by a Priest that she doesnt need to seek an annulment since her prior marriage was not in the Church.

I don’t think what the Priest said is true, I think they do need an annulment…

Can someone please clarify this for me? Also, can you cite the source for your answer?

Thanks!

Can. 1066 Before a marriage takes place, it must be established that nothing stands in the
way of its valid and lawful celebration.

Can. 1085~1 A person bound by the bond of a previous marriage, even if not
consummated, invalidly attempts marriage.

~2 Even though the previous marriage is invalid or for any reason dissolved, it is not
thereby lawful to contract another marriage before the nullity or the dissolution of the
previous one has been established lawfully and with certainty.

Can. 1060 Marriage enjoys the favor of law. Consequently, in doubt the validity of a
marriage must be upheld until the contrary is proven.

So until she proves that her prior Marriage was invalid, and the Tribunal agrees, which may not take a full Annulment process, the Marriage cannot take place. #2 or Canon 1085

 

[puzzleannie]

I have a brother-in-law who will be marrying very soon. The person whom he will be marrying has been married before w/ children.

My brother-in-law and the woman he will be marrying are both Catholic.

He says that they were told by a Priest that she doesnt need to seek an annulment since her prior marriage was not in the Church.

I don’t think what the Priest said is true, I think they do need an annulment…

Can someone please clarify this for me? Also, can you cite the source for your answer?

Thanks!

no we cannot clarify this here. we are not competent.
only the priest preparing them for marriage can know all the facts of the marital history of both parties, their baptismal status and the other relevant information.

it is highly likely that what was reported to you does not contain all the facts, and does not contain everything that the priest said. if the priest is marrying them you are obliged to assume that he has assured himself they are free to marry.

there are several scenarios in which this woman would be free to marry, the most likely being that she is a Catholic whose first marriage was outside the Church. In this instance she would not need an annulment, although there is a paperwork process involved, which the priest usually takes care of quietly.

If the priest is marrying them it would be best for other family members to rest easy and not speculate.

it also would be a very good thing for forum members not to offer an opinion on this very complex topic unless it is an informed opinion, the confusion that arises is not helpful to the OP

 

[verdigirl]

From personal experience, I can definitely tell you that this is a “defect of form” situation. The priest is mistaken, and it would be in the couple’s best interest for you to gently mention this.

Otherwise, this is grounds for a later annullment…

 

[agapewolf]

From personal experience, I can definitely tell you that this is a “defect of form” situation. The priest is mistaken, and it would be in the couple’s best interest for you to gently mention this.

Otherwise, this is grounds for a later annullment…

No one can tell anything definately here. We do not know if this woman is a convert. We do not know what was actually said to the couple for you to say that the priest is mistaken. Perhaps the couple misunderstood what they were told.

THere is no definate answer, only assumptions…the only definate thing here is that paperwork, of some kind, needs to be done.

 

[puzzleannie]

also enlarging on BroSFOs excellent and complete answer, even though the priest usually takes care of the paperwork for defect of form it is true that sometimes it is done so quietly that he does not adequately explain the reason for the process to the couple, so they do get the impression that nothing much needs to be done about the first marriage. The facts described in this post should be carefully explained so they understand the underlying principles.

 

[James_2_24]

Can. 1066 Before a marriage takes place, it must be established that nothing stands in the
way of its valid and lawful celebration.

Can. 1085~1 A person bound by the bond of a previous marriage, even if not
consummated, invalidly attempts marriage.

~2 Even though the previous marriage is invalid or for any reason dissolved, it is not
thereby lawful to contract another marriage before the nullity or the dissolution of the
previous one has been established lawfully and with certainty.

Can. 1060 Marriage enjoys the favor of law. Consequently, in doubt the validity of a
marriage must be upheld until the contrary is proven.

So until she proves that her prior Marriage was invalid, and the Tribunal agrees, which may not take a full Annulment process, the Marriage cannot take place. #2 or Canon 1085

I guess the question, more accurately stated, is "is the marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic ***outside of the Church *** valid?

And so, with the woman who is attempting to marry my brother-in-law… was her previous marriage valid?

If not, then according to canon 1085 – would she not be bound by a previous marriage? And also if she married a non-Catholic, outside of a Catholic which (without a Catholic Priest) – wouldn’t it also satisfy the fact that the marriage was certainly invalidly.

I know that probably none of you can give me a definite, clear cut answer… just looking for insight.

Thanks.

 

[1ke]

I guess the question, more accurately stated, is "is the marriage between a Catholic and a non-Catholic ***outside of the Church *** valid?

Without a dispensation – yes.

With a dispensation – no.

And so, with the woman who is attempting to marry my brother-in-law… was her previous marriage valid?

The Church determines that. That is why they must complete the paperwork and submit it to the Church.

If not, then according to canon 1085 – would she not be bound by a previous marriage? And also if she married a non-Catholic, outside of a Catholic which (without a Catholic Priest) – wouldn’t it also satisfy the fact that the marriage was certainly invalidly.

Only the Church can determine if it was “certainly” invalid. She herself can not just declare it to be so. It must be investigated-- and if it is lack of form that is a short process. As has already been said here on this post-- the BIL and the fiancee needs to discuss it with the priest and ensure the proper process is followed and a determination of nullity received.

I know that probably none of you can give me a definite, clear cut answer… just looking for insight.

Yup.

They need to go talk to their priest and get specific, clear answers to their questions.