Annulment of marriage Please Read and Help

[mikelionheart]

If he gets a civil marriage and then lives with his new “wife” they are still living in sin and adding on the sin of presumption.

If “all else fails” and the OP is not able to get his prior marriage situation resolved, then the “have a blessing in the Church afterward” option is not relevant anyway.

I agree Corki

This option was offered to me.
I must tackle my priest about this.
He is orthodox so don’t know why he would offer this.

 

[Phemie]

No, I was advising that if all else fails he should get the marriage blessed which is the exact same advice my priest gave me.

Are you saying that if all else fails he should live in sin with her or end the relationship?

You can’t get your marriage ‘blessed’ unless your first marriage is declared invalid and you receive a decree of nullity (an annulment).

While the popular term is ‘having your marriage blessed’, it is in fact getting married in the Church (a convalidation). You can’t do that if you are still married to the person you vowed to stay with ‘until death us do part’ – and as far as the Church and God are concerned you still are.

In fact, priests are forbidden from giving public blessings to those who are divorced and remarried without an annulment in case it should be perceived that they are in good standing with the Church.

 

[mikelionheart]

You can’t get your marriage ‘blessed’ unless your first marriage is declared invalid and you receive a decree of nullity (an annulment). While the popular term is 'having your marriage blessed, it is in fact getting married in the Church (a convalidation). You can’t do that if you are still married to the person you vowed to stay with ‘until death us do part’ – and as far as the Church and God are concerned you still are.

Please see previous post.

 

[Corki]

I agree Corki

This option was offered to me.
**I must tackle my priest about this.**He is orthodox so don’t know why he would offer this.

Be gentle with your poor priest. From what you have posted, your prior marriage situation was rather unique so he may have given you advice relevant to your unique situation that just wouldn’t apply to most cases. Without consumation, the annullment or disolution of your first marriage was practially guaranteed. And, of course, in countries where a civil marriage always precedes a Church wedding, the couple just doesn’t live as husband and wife until both are done.

But these special circumstances don’t seem to apply to the OPs case.

PS Congratualtions on your upcoming wedding.

 

[mikelionheart]

Apologies to all for some of my spiky responses.

So, all in all, the OP’s only hope is to get an annulment.
This will not be done in 4 months.

I wonder how devoted to the Church the OP’s fiancee is.

I hope this situation doesn’t end in one Catholic and a potential Catholic walking away from the Church.

 

[Gorgias]

Perhaps the confusion ensued based on the “letter of freedom” that you mentioned. Isn’t such a letter supposed to state that you have never been married previously?

What does your letter state? That is, if it mentions your first marriage, what does it say about it such that it claims that you’re free to marry?

Corki’s right – since your situation centers on the issue of ‘prior bond’ and your current four-month timeline, the question would seem to hinge on your ex’s religious affiliation (or lack thereof).

 

[maltmom]

Paul and Beata, there is a forum group for people who are seeking a decree of nullity. There is even a canon lawyer that is kind enough to answer questions. He may or may not know if the Catholic church will accept the decree from the Church of England. It would be wonderful for both of you if they do.

Here is a link to that forum group. They will give you a lot of support.

forums.catholic-questions.org/group.php?groupid=958

Please keep us posted on how things go.

God Bless!

 

[ValPal]

He may or may not know if the Catholic church will accept the decree from the Church of England. It would be wonderful for both of you if they do.

The Catholic Church will not accept such a decree. Maybe the Tribunal will look at it if it has relevant information to the case, but that’s it.

 

[ValPal]

It depends.

I agree that it would be very unlikely if we are talking about a full tribunal case. However, we do not know all the details of the first marriage and ex spouse. If the ex was previously married or the ex was a baptized Catholic, and it can be proven with paperwork, then we are talking Ligamen or Lack of Form and those are very quick once the paperwork is gathered.

My response was geared toward the full tribunal case. The latter case you mentioned obviously occur much quicker.

I still believe the OP has to put the brakes on the marriage plans, though. It’s just too quick, and everything would have fall into placed perfectly (rushed delivery of baptismal and other certificates, rushed dispensations from the Bishop’s office, no formal pre-Cana, etc.). The Catholic Church tends to act properly, not quickly.

 

[ChibiViolet]

Since you were baptised and then had a civil marriage rather than one in a church, I’m not sure an annulment is actually necessary. If it is and you could find her, than attainting one would be simple I think.

 

[EricFilmer]

In my experience, a four-month window is an impossibility. If an annulment has been done in less than four months, I’ve never heard of it.

My response was geared toward the full tribunal case. The latter case you mentioned obviously occur much quicker.

Yes, lacking knowledge of the specific case at hand, my initial response included the time-frames associated with a ligamen or a lack of form annulment, which can be completed in a short amount of time. Nevertheless, I have assisted with full annulment investigations which reached a declaration of nullity within a four-month time span. But it should be pointed out that my diocese does not have a large Catholic population (i.e., fewer annulment cases than many others), and the cases in question were given a priority rating by the tribunal due to RCIA circumstances. Despite this, however, I tell people undergoing a full tribunal investigation (in my diocese) to presume that it will take at least six months, possibly a year, and with no guarantees regarding either.

I still believe the OP has to put the brakes on the marriage plans, though. It’s just too quick, and everything would have fall into placed perfectly (rushed delivery of baptismal and other certificates, rushed dispensations from the Bishop’s office, no formal pre-Cana, etc.). The Catholic Church tends to act properly, not quickly.

I concur. All things considered it would be better to postpone the wedding until the issue of the annulment is resolved. After all, it is a possibility that the tribunal will rule that the OP’s former marriage is valid and that he is not free to contract a marriage with his Catholic fiance. Such rulings can be appealed, but that takes even more time. I’m sure that the OP and his fiance have already paid some of the expenses associated with a wedding, and this would come out as a loss if the wedding is postponed. But although I am sympathetic to such a plight, the fact remains that as time goes on there will be even more and more expenses, and the four-month time-frame is really cutting things too close for comfort. In my opinion, it would be better to cut ones losses now by postponing the wedding (without setting a new date) and concentrating on the annulment investigation.

 

[beata3408]

The letter reads 6th April 2012

                                                    Letter of freedom

To whom it may concern

I Vicar’s name, rector of the (town name)team in the county of ********** certify that Paul ******
of (my address when living there)has not been married in ( then give three church names )

The register have been checked from **th August 1982 (when Mr Paul ********** was 16 years old ) until today’s date he is therefore free to marry Beata ************* on the 1st of September 2012

Signed

Thanks for reading,
but I just cant understand how something this important wasn’t told to us at an earlier stage. Its not like we have rushed into this, we had many meetings with the Father. I’m so frustrated.
We would have not booked everything if we had known about the annulment and would wait until next year.

 

[EricFilmer]

The letter reads 6th April 2012

                                                    Letter of freedom

To whom it may concern

I Vicar’s name, rector of the (town name)team in the county of ********** certify that Paul ******
of (my address when living there)has not been married in ( then give three church names )

The register have been checked from **th August 1982 (when Mr Paul ********** was 16 years old ) until today’s date he is therefore free to marry Beata ************* on the 1st of September 2012

Is this an Anglican document or a Catholic one? The concept of freedom to be married can be different (as well as what is required to demonstrate such freedom).

Thanks for reading,
but I just cant understand how something this important wasn’t told to us at an earlier stage. Its not like we have rushed into this, we had many meetings with the Father. I’m so frustrated.
We would have not booked everything if we had known about the annulment and would wait until next year.

You have my sincere sympathies. As I stated earlier, you could not be expected to know Catholic procedures, and it seems like some sort of mistake has been made by the priests in question. I am presuming that there was a misunderstanding somewhere, but someone should have taken the steps to properly clarify the situation with you long before your plans reached this point.

 

[beata3408]

Thanks for reading,

But I just cant understand how something this important wasn’t told to us at an earlier stage. Its not like we have rushed into this, we had many meetings with the Father. I’m so frustrated.
We would have not booked everything if we had known about the annulment and would wait until next year.

 

[beata3408]

Its a Anglican document

There was no mistake from me at any point I have been 100% open with them I told them on the first meeting that i was married and nothing was said about the Annulment

 

[agapewolf]

Beata,

You are absolutely right. They should have told you about this in the beginning. Somehow there was a misunderstanding, or the priest does not understand the church’s view on non-Catholic marriages or something. Who knows. But the reality is, the church is presuming your marriage to be valid until proven otherwise and that needs to be taken care of.

A lot of the time needed for annulments are for 2 reasons: 1) Gathering information, getting the questions answered, and witness statements and 2) the back log of annulment applications in the tribunal in the diocese.

You can do everything within your power to alleviate the time needed for 1. Keep on your witnesses, do all of your questions immediately. Get it done.

Regarding 2). In my opinion, because this is the error on part of the priest (or whoever) , they should do something to move you closer to the head of the line getting your case before a tribunal. This would not effect the outcome, merely, the fact that your case would be heard before others. Perhaps you can ask the priest/tribunal about this.

This doesn’t guarantee that you’ll get it done in time, and there could be other issues that come up as well, but its a start.

 

[EricFilmer]

Its a Anglican document

Although I am a former Episcopalian, I am not knowledgeable about the details concerning Anglican preparations for marriage. However, I think I can give an educated guess regarding this document. Generally speaking, the Catholic church does not regard a civil marriage between baptized persons to be valid (even if they are not specifically Catholic). The exchange of vows, rather, should be in some kind of church building (unless a dispensation has been granted by a proper ecclesiastical authority).

Moreover, the Church of England (like the Catholic Church) considers marriage a sacrament, and probably requires that the Anglican wedding rite be utilized for the sake of sacramental validity.

You have a civil marriage license, but did not get married inside a church building, nor in accordance with the Church of England’s wedding rite. Your Anglican pastor has given documentation showing that there is no record of you having an Anglican wedding, and therefore would not have a “prior bond” issue (from the perspective of the Church of England) preventing you from entering into a marriage with your fiance. If the Church of England does not use marriage tribunals, then it could well be that an Anglican pastor is empowered to declare a parishioner of his free to be married.

But, as explained in this thread, the Catholic Church will presume that your former marriage is valid (even though it took place as a civil ceremony) unless a Catholic tribunal investigates it and finds it to be otherwise. Nevertheless, the civil marriage circumstances and the letter from your Anglican pastor will be helpful contributions for the sake of the investigation.

 

[beata3408]

you know and i do, that there is no chance that an Annulment will be do before the wedding date I have Three options open to use 1, postpone the wedding and lose £2,500 at no fault of ours 2, get married in a registry office in Poland Or 3, married in a church of England and lose £2,500 no fault of mine. then we need to think about children??

If I made a mistake this big at work my feet would not touch the floor

 

[EricFilmer]

you know and i do, that there is no chance that an Annulment will be do before the wedding date…

Well, before we completely close the door on that idea, let me ask you some quick questions (and feel free to PM me if you would rather discuss details privately):

1. Was your ex-wife married prior to her wedding with you? If so, was her ex-husband still alive when your wedding with her took place?
2. Was your ex-wife baptized? And, if so, at what point (i.e., before or after her wedding with you)?
3. Was your ex-wife Catholic (even if only a baptized Catholic who didn’t practice the faith)?

Also, at the risk of sounding like the Grim Reaper, if your search for your ex-wife’s contact information reveals that she has actually passed away then you will not need an annulment (because all marriage bonds dissolve once either the husband or wife dies).

 

[Corki]

Thanks for reading,

But I just cant understand how something this important wasn’t told to us at an earlier stage. Its not like we have rushed into this, we had many meetings with the Father. I’m so frustrated.
We would have not booked everything if we had known about the annulment and would wait until next year.

I understand you must be angry and frustrated. But what would you have them do now that they realized the error?

Roman Catholic Church in England is asking me for the annulment of marriage.

This makes it sound like the Catholic priest in England thought you already had gone through the annulment process. I am asssuming that it’s your fiancee’s pastor in Poland who is the central contact (that’s the normal situation) who would have conveyed this information to him. Could he (the priest in Poland) have misunderstood and thought that the “Letter of Freedom” was actually a decree of nullity? I did a little googling and it looks like a Letter of Freedom is a UK document that priests in other countries might not be familiar with. Add to that the possibility of a language difference and there is a lot of risk for mix-ups.

As angry as you are now, there isn’t really anything you can do besides meet with the priest, find out how to start the annullment process and then make a plan from there. You are most definately owed an appology from whoever made this terrible error and hopefully they will work with you to expidite whatever steps can be moved along quicker.