Annulment question regarding SS attempt at marriage

[Horton]

Disclaimer - This is a purely hypothetical situation. It is not me nor anyone I know.

A man civilly “marries” another man but then divorces after a period of time. That man now meets a Catholic woman and they would like to get married. She has no impediments to marriage and his only “marriage” was to another man. Does he need to submit a petition to a marriage tribunal?

I know the Catholic Church does not recognize a civil union between two people of the same sex but due to civil law it would be a legal union. I am seeking opinions and discourse.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

No, no marriage, nothing to annul. He, and the prospective bride, would need some counseling, obviously.

 

[Phemie]

Disclaimer - This is a purely hypothetical situation. It is not me nor anyone I know.

A man civilly “marries” another man but then divorces after a period of time. That man now meets a Catholic woman and they would like to get married. She has no impediments to marriage and his only “marriage” was to another man. Does he need to submit a petition to a marriage tribunal?

I know the Catholic Church does not recognize a civil union between two people of the same sex but due to civil law it would be a legal union. I am seeking opinions and discourse.

No, since the first marriage was invalid since it lacked matter (a woman). It doesn’t matter if the marriage was legal.

 

[SMHW]

I agree that there is no annulment required.

I don’t pretend to know how this would play out but I would suspect that civil marriages between same sex couples would still have to go through a documentary process in dioceses (such as those in the United States) which require the process for opposite sex couples.

And as has been mentioned, an opposite sex couple who wished to marry in the Church after one of them has been in a same sex “marriage” would probably require considerable counseling, (both together and individually) since same sex attraction on the part of one of them could result in the nullity of the opposite sex marriage.

 

[jmcrae]

Disclaimer - This is a purely hypothetical situation. It is not me nor anyone I know.

A man civilly “marries” another man but then divorces after a period of time. That man now meets a Catholic woman and they would like to get married. She has no impediments to marriage and his only “marriage” was to another man. Does he need to submit a petition to a marriage tribunal?

I know the Catholic Church does not recognize a civil union between two people of the same sex but due to civil law it would be a legal union. I am seeking opinions and discourse.

This is one of those situations where the “marriage” is obviously null. I doubt the Tribunal would ever even get involved.

I agree with the person who said they should do more than the usual premarital counseling, to ensure that they are both capable of contracting a valid marriage.

 

[dans0622]

Disclaimer - This is a purely hypothetical situation. It is not me nor anyone I know.

A man civilly “marries” another man but then divorces after a period of time. That man now meets a Catholic woman and they would like to get married. She has no impediments to marriage and his only “marriage” was to another man. Does he need to submit a petition to a marriage tribunal?

I know the Catholic Church does not recognize a civil union between two people of the same sex but due to civil law it would be a legal union. I am seeking opinions and discourse.

Hello,

There would never need to be a “petition” since that would suggest an actual, judicial procedure. There is no way the church would ever require that.

I imagine, though, that when a such a person comes forward, someone in the church (either at the parish or diocesan level) will want to see documentation which shows that the union was, in fact, a homosexual one. After that, pastoral care would begin in earnest.

Dan

 

[Horton]

Thanks all. Your answers are what I was thinking would be the answer. I saw something on TV last night that made me think of this situation. With SS “marriage” more of a recent legal issue I wasn’t sure if this had happened yet. I would agree pastoral counseling should be a must.

 

[Chatter163]

The reason that a civil divorce decree is required in the US is because the priest or deacon acts as both the agent for the Church and for the state, so long as he submits the signed marriage license to the local county. This is why there is only one ceremony, rather than two separate rites, as is the case in many countries. If the Church accepted an annulment case and declared a marriage null without the marriage having first been civilly dissolved, the Church could be sued for alienation of affection.

For this reason at least a civil divorce decree would be required when a couple, even one involving the scenario in the OP, approached a parish with the hope of marriage. I would add that if I were the priest or deacon involved, I would have severe reservations about the ability of the previously “married” partner to validly marry.

 

[Phemie]

The reason that a civil divorce decree is required in the US is because the priest or deacon acts as both the agent for the Church and for the state, so long as he submits the signed marriage license to the local county. This is why there is only one ceremony, rather than two separate rites, as is the case in many countries. If the Church accepted an annulment case and declared a marriage null without the marriage having first been civilly dissolved, the Church could be sued for alienation of affection.

For this reason at least a civil divorce decree would be required when a couple, even one involving the scenario in the OP, approached a parish with the hope of marriage. I would add that if I were the priest or deacon involved, I would have severe reservations about the ability of the previously “married” partner to validly marry.

I’m not sure that that’s the reason. The Church requires that there be no hope of reconciliation before it starts looking at the validity of the marriage. In North America, divorce is the proof that’s accepted.

 

[FrDavid96]

I’m not sure that that’s the reason. The Church requires that there be no hope of reconciliation before it starts looking at the validity of the marriage. In North America, divorce is the proof that’s accepted.

It is part of the reason. Both statements are true.

1. The Church does not want to be seen as interfering in a situation where a couple is still legally married.
2. There must be no hope of reconciliation.

It’s not an either-or scenario, rather there are several reasons (not just those 2), all of which apply.

 

[FrDavid96]

Disclaimer - This is a purely hypothetical situation. It is not me nor anyone I know.

A man civilly “marries” another man but then divorces after a period of time. That man now meets a Catholic woman and they would like to get married. She has no impediments to marriage and his only “marriage” was to another man. Does he need to submit a petition to a marriage tribunal?

I know the Catholic Church does not recognize a civil union between two people of the same sex but due to civil law it would be a legal union. I am seeking opinions and discourse.

No.

A petition for a declaration of nullity only applies when there was some attempt at marriage.

When the situation is 2 people of the same sex, what they attempt is not marriage at all.