Annulment Question

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Hi… I’m new here and have a question. I am a non-baptized agnostic and my fiancee is a baptized catholic. We are engaged to be married next summer in a catholic church in Mexico.

I was previously married to a baptized mormon in a non-sacramental and non-religious ceremony at a hotel (a friend with an on-line minister certificate administered the ceremony). That marriage ended awfully and in divorce 10 years ago, including criminality and deception on the part of my ex-wife.

My fiancee and I just attended our first meeting to begin our pre-cana lessons… and were told that I need to go through a full annulment of my prior marriage. This surprised me since a) neither of us in the prior marriage are catholic, b) I am non-baptized and non-religious, and c) it was a non-sacramental marriage.

I want to avoid an annulment at all costs if possible. Are there other options… or was our deacon possibly mis-informed that I am required to have an annulment?

Any informed guidance would be great.

Thanks.
 
Hi… I’m new here and have a question. I am a non-baptized agnostic and my fiancee is a baptized catholic. We are engaged to be married next summer in a catholic church in Mexico.

I was previously married to a baptized mormon in a non-sacramental and non-religious ceremony at a hotel (a friend with an on-line minister certificate administered the ceremony). That marriage ended awfully and in divorce 10 years ago, including criminality and deception on the part of my ex-wife.

My fiancee and I just attended our first meeting to begin our pre-cana lessons… and were told that I need to go through a full annulment of my prior marriage. This surprised me since a) neither of us in the prior marriage are catholic, b) I am non-baptized and non-religious, and c) it was a non-sacramental marriage.

I want to avoid an annulment at all costs if possible. Are there other options… or was our deacon possibly mis-informed that I am required to have an annulment?

Any informed guidance would be great.

Thanks.
Since neither of you were non-Catholic when married, the marriage is considered a legitimate natural marriage, until annulled.

Follow the advice of the authorities you have already spoken with; it sounds like they know what they are doing.
 
Hi… I’m new here and have a question. I am a non-baptized agnostic and my fiancee is a baptized catholic. We are engaged to be married next summer in a catholic church in Mexico.

I was previously married to a baptized mormon in a non-sacramental and non-religious ceremony at a hotel (a friend with an on-line minister certificate administered the ceremony). That marriage ended awfully and in divorce 10 years ago, including criminality and deception on the part of my ex-wife.

My fiancee and I just attended our first meeting to begin our pre-cana lessons… and were told that I need to go through a full annulment of my prior marriage. This surprised me since a) neither of us in the prior marriage are catholic, b) I am non-baptized and non-religious, and c) it was a non-sacramental marriage.

I want to avoid an annulment at all costs if possible. Are there other options… or was our deacon possibly mis-informed that I am required to have an annulment?

Any informed guidance would be great.

Thanks.
Hi svski, welcome to the forum and thanks for looking for clarity for this issue. I’m not an expert, but I’ll try to help. You make good points about understanding the difference between a sacramental marriage and a punitive one. Like our faith journey toward sainthood where we strive to deepen our love for God as we go, marriage is much the same way. We need to strive in our marriage to emulate Jesus’s love for the Church, a journey that should mature over time.

Because of this, we cannot say that a marriage that was contracted in perhaps less than ideal circumstances is not valid because even an immature relationship can grow into a marriage that reflects Jesus’s love for His bride. No marriage is an ideal reflection of that love on day one.

An annulment does not deny a marriage took place, or say that either you or your former spouse was disingenuous in your initial desire to have a lifelong union pleasing to God. It looks at the expectations of marriage before it took place by looking into your (and your ex) lives prior to it and how any immaturity (for lack of better term) may have played out during your union. A look at Gen 2:24 gives us some initial basis for a sacramental marriage. Did he leave? Did he cleave? Did the two become one flesh? etc. etc. Whether the union was lawful is more a matter of the dispositions of the people than a religious affiliation.

No matter how uncomfortable the process (and it is), it gives us a great opportunity to take an honest look at ourselves and see the things that kept the first marriage from being successful and to ensure that this marriage is free from those issues and has the greatest opportunity to allow your marriage and family to reflect the domestic church.

I hope this helpful. May God bless your journey.
 
Marriage was an institution created by God, even though some may not accept this. The Church respects the marriages of non-Christians as valid even though they are not sacramental. Your first marriage may have been a valid natural marriage and must be ruled on by the diocesan marriage tribunal before you can marry a Catholic. Don’t be too nervous about this. This can probably be resolved.
 
You make good points about understanding the difference between a sacramental marriage and a punitive one.
I would hate be in a **punitive **marriage. I think that you meant to say putative.
 
a) neither of us in the prior marriage are catholic
The Church does not teach that only Catholics marry validly. Two people who are not Catholic can validly marry each other. Divorce does not dissolve the marriage.
b) I am non-baptized and non-religious
The Church also does not teach that only religious or baptized people marry validly. Marriage is a natural institution, created by God at the beginning. It is a natural right.
c) it was a non-sacramental marriage.
Christ elevated marriage to a sacrament among the baptized and a valid sacramental marriage is indissoluable.

But, again, the unbaptized marry validly when they marry each other. A valid marriage between the unbaptized can be dissolved in some instances.
I want to avoid an annulment at all costs if possible. Are there other options…
Looking into whether or not you have grounds for a decree of nullity is probably the most reasonable option-- you are aware however that there may be no finding of nullity. In other words, your first marriage may be valid. In which case, you are not free to marry anyone else.

The only other option would be the Petrine Privilege, that would have to go to the Pope.
or was our deacon possibly mis-informed that I am required to have an annulment
No, he is not misinformed.
 
Hi… I’m new here and have a question. I am a non-baptized agnostic and my fiancee is a baptized catholic. We are engaged to be married next summer in a catholic church in Mexico.

I was previously married to a baptized mormon in a non-sacramental and non-religious ceremony at a hotel (a friend with an on-line minister certificate administered the ceremony). That marriage ended awfully and in divorce 10 years ago, including criminality and deception on the part of my ex-wife.

My fiancee and I just attended our first meeting to begin our pre-cana lessons… and were told that I need to go through a full annulment of my prior marriage. This surprised me since a) neither of us in the prior marriage are catholic, b) I am non-baptized and non-religious, and c) it was a non-sacramental marriage.

I want to avoid an annulment at all costs if possible. Are there other options… or was our deacon possibly mis-informed that I am required to have an annulment?

Any informed guidance would be great.

Thanks.
I have a decree of nullity so I believe I am pretty well informed on the requirements, and yes, you do need to pursue this. Any non-Catholic, baptized or not, who enters into a marriage with another non-Catholic, baptized or not, is presumed to have married validly, even if it was marriage by a justice of the peace or a ‘on-line’ ordained minister.

If your ex wife deceived you prior to the marriage (was engaging in criminal behavior and did not tell you, for example), that would be excellent grounds for a decree of nullity. But you need to start pursing this right away. It is possible that you might not be free to marry in the summer of 2014, so be aware of that, God bless you.
 
svski

Other aspects of the annulment issue have been covered, but I would just like to add a couple of things.
First, is that the Catholic Church presumes all marriages (even those “contracted” outside Church) to be valid until evidence is verified that it was entered into under the wrong mindset by either one or both parties. There are several reasons why a marriage may not have been valid in the first place and it can be complicated. That’s why the Catholic Church has a tribunal of experts in each diocese who can investigate. In the case of my annulment there were mental health issues that also led to unintentional coercion. (I was afraid she would commit suicide if I left her because she had attempted it before.)
Second, while divorce is an adversarial process, an annulment is not. It doesn’t seek to assign blame, but merely look at the circumstances surrounding the decision to marry and whether those issues continued to affect the character of the marriage.
My third point I bring up as someone who has been through the annulment process and is active in a peer to peer ministry for divorced Catholics, As distasteful and unpleasant as it is to dive back into a very painful part of someone’s life, the annulment process is as necessary to healing as cleaning out a wound before stitching it up. By examining a failed marriage and taking a hard look at where and why it failed, true healing can take place and the parties involved will be much better prepared to avoid those mistakes in the future should they find someone new they wish to marry.
 
Since neither of you were non-Catholic when married, the marriage is considered a legitimate natural marriage, until annulled.

Follow the advice of the authorities you have already spoken with; it sounds like they know what they are doing.
Oops, just realized I said “neither” instead of “both.”

Since **both **of you were non-Catholic when married, the marriage is considered a legitimate natural marriage, until annulled.
 
Oops, just realized I said “neither” instead of “both.”

Since **both **of you were non-Catholic when married, the marriage is considered a legitimate natural marriage, until annulled.
I would say “unless” they receive a decree of nullity, not “until”. “Until” implies that this is a mere formality, that a decree of nullity will be forthcoming. It is important for everyone to acknolwedge that the OP’s marriage might in fact be valid, in which case no decree of nullity would be obtained.

If that is the case, then the only option would in fact be the Petrine Privilege. Not sure how likely it is that it would be granted.
 
I would say “unless” they receive a decree of nullity, not “until”. “Until” implies that this is a mere formality, that a decree of nullity will be forthcoming. It is important for everyone to acknolwedge that the OP’s marriage might in fact be valid, in which case no decree of nullity would be obtained.
Good point. The different word does make a significant difference in meaning.
 
Since most posts cover the basics, I wanted to reiterate the post about the summer 2014 timeline. In my archdiocese annulments typically take between 12 and 18 months. In other archdiocese it may take even longer. In few archdiocese the case can take as little as 6-9 months but that is relatively rare.

You first have to meet with a priest or assigned Procurator/Advocate. You’ll need your marriage record and divorce record. You’ll also need between 3-5 witnesses who knew you and your ex-wife before and/r during the early period of marriage and who would be willing t help you by answering some questions for the tribunal about the marriage and both you and your ex. Since it can be hard to find people, the tribunal can work with you if you cannot get together enough witnesses because you cannot find people from that time of your life or because it has been so long those people have passed away, for example. You’ll need the witnesses full names and current addresses and their willingness to help. Since it can take time to get copies of paperwork and get in touch with potential witnesses I would suggest you get to work as soon as possible.

First thing after meeting with your Procurator/Advocate you fill out the papers and present those along with marriage and divorce records and the names of witnesses to the tribunal. The witnesses and your ex-wife are sent questionnaires to fill out and mail back. If there are related police reports and reports from therapists or counselors you will want copies to include and send to the tribunal as supporting evidence,

Once the tribunal has received your case they will decide if it has enough merit to continue. If so, you’ll get another batch of questions to answer along with a case number and the names of the tribunal staff who are handling your case. Then the waiting begins. Your witnesses will receive questionnaires to fill out and send back and so will your ex. Once those are received, the case goes before the tribunal judge and a decision is made as to whether or not the marriage was and is valid. The case is then shipped to a second tribunal court to be reviewed and have a second decision rendered.

If both courts decide the marriage was invalid, you are free to marry within the Church. If one says the marriage was invalid and the other says the marriage was valid the case gets sent to Rome for review and a decision. If both tribunal courts say the marriage was valid, you are still considered married to your ex-wife and cannot marry within the Church.

I am in the process, myself, and have been since late June. I went online and read my archdiocese annulment FAQ. They also had a downloadable set of forms available. I made my appointment with my priest and had all my paperwork done before I went in to see him. I filed mine at the end of June 2013. I got the letter letting me know my case had been accepted and a separate questionnaire in September, I believe. I sent my questionnaire back immediately. My ex sent his back a couple weeks later.

This past Saturday I got a letter saying my case was at a standstill. Only 2 of my 5 witnesses responded and the Church needs a minimum of 3. One of my witnesses said she mailed back the questionnaire, but forgot to put the case number on it. So, she is remailing it for me this week. If she comes through the case will proceed. If not, I have to get a another witness or seek permission to use a couple of character references willing to speak to mine and my ex’s character.

As you can see, unexpected things can delay an annulment and the Church handles many annulments each year. That’s why a Catholic isn’t supposed to set a wedding date until any marriage issues are officially resolved.

Of course, you have the option of marrying outside the Church and having the marriage convalidated after the annulment is finished, assuming a positive outcome. However, your fiancee is a catholic and is bound by Church law to marry in front of a priest or get dispensation to marry otherwise, which the Church wouldn’t grant as you are dealing with a past marriage. This means, for her, any marriage she enters into with you before you have an annulment and can say your vows in front of a priest, is NOT valid.

Additionally, if you marry her she will be considered to be committing adultery (since you are considered married til proven otherwise) and will be unable to receive the Sacraments, such as Communion, until the situation is resolved and your marriage recognized by the Church.
 
Thank you all for the very informative responses. It sounds like we have no option other than annulment… so that inherent inflexibility will most likely lead to us being married outside the church… which is very, very sad.

My ex is truly psychotic (multi-personality, schizophrenic and bipolar)… and I fear for the safety of my fiancee. An inevitable retaliation would bring harassment and defamation in the smoothest situation… and violent episodes in the worst.

Since the Church would insist on contacting my ex directly… I see no way we can go through with the annulment process.

Thanks again.
 
I’m glad you’ve found the information here informative.

You may not, however, blame the Church. She steadfastly applies the same rules to everyone, and to expect anything otherwise is ignorant.

If you truly believe that the Catholic Church is the true Church, it is your obligation to do all in your power to act by Her statutes.
 
Thank you all for the very informative responses. It sounds like we have no option other than annulment… so that inherent inflexibility will most likely lead to us being married outside the church… which is very, very sad.

My ex is truly psychotic (multi-personality, schizophrenic and bipolar)… and I fear for the safety of my fiancee. An inevitable retaliation would bring harassment and defamation in the smoothest situation… and violent episodes in the worst.

Since the Church would insist on contacting my ex directly… I see no way we can go through with the annulment process.

Thanks again.
Think about it this way: If you had separated and never pursued a civil divorce, the government would require you to get a civil divorce (or decree of nullity; those exist in civil law, too) before you could marry. It isn’t a matter of being “inflexible” in a negative way. Those who give permission to marry simply have a duty to ensure that they aren’t cooperating in an act of bigamy. The Church has to do the same thing.

Be sure to talk to someone about your specific case, particularly your need to avoid the danger of being contacted by your ex-spouse. It may be that your spouse’s rights in this matter can be ensured without a disclosure of your whereabouts.
 
If you truly believe that the Catholic Church is the true Church, it is your obligation to do all in your power to act by Her statutes.
Maybe you missed this part:
I am a non-baptized agnostic…
He does not believe that the Catholic Church is the true Church. Consequently, he has no obligation “to act by her statutes.” Of course, if he wants to marry a Catholic validly in the Church, he’ll have to follow the rules established for Catholic marriage. But it is his desire for the Catholic wedding that compels him to follow the rules, not a obligation he has to the Church.
 
Maybe you missed this part:

He does not believe that the Catholic Church is the true Church. Consequently, he has no obligation “to act by her statutes.” Of course, if he wants to marry a Catholic validly in the Church, he’ll have to follow the rules established for Catholic marriage. But it is his desire for the Catholic wedding that compels him to follow the rules, not a obligation he has to the Church.
I did miss that, but it doesn’t change my answer in the end.

If he doesn’t want to go by the Church’s rules, why is he getting an annulment? Why does he care?
 
BettyBoop416;11392514 said:
There is more to consider than just “the desire for a Catholic wedding”. The decision to pursue a marriage in obedience, not only to the Catholic Church, by to Sacred Scripture is not one person’s decision. If faced with the knowledge that I’m subjecting to my fiance, who I proclaim my love to, to commit adultery, and ultimately to mortal sin leading to their condemnation, it may be worth considering. I agree that the OP has no obligation to the Church, but does most certainly to the baptized Catholic perspective spouse.

On an aside, the OP mentioned having to contact the -ex; this is not correct. They fill out the paperwork; the diocese does all of the contacting and the records are kept confidential. They generally request that you let the -ex know paperwork is coming but this is not required.
 
I did miss that, but it doesn’t change my answer in the end.

If he doesn’t want to go by the Church’s rules, why is he getting an annulment? Why does he care?
Because the Catholic fiancé obviously cares…
 
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