Annulment Question

[AngelRose81]

There is a couple in my RCIA class and both of them had to get an annulment. They were married before and then divorced. They have been married to each other for a couple of years. They have applied for the annulments but haven’t gotten them back yet approved. Our priest told them that since their marriage to each other was invalid (both their 1st marriages are the recognized ones), and the annulment process would not be complete by Easter Vigil, they could not participate in the Sacraments of Confirmation and Communion with the rest of the class. I assume this is because technically they are “living in a state of sin” since their current marriage isn’t recognized by the Church.

Was our priest correct or has this couple been misinformed? No one in the RCIA team seemed to know the answer. They just said they hadn’t heard that before. Thanks!

 

[Della]

Your priest is right that this couple is living in sin, and there’s nothing technical about it. Until they obtain their annulments and subsequently have their current marriage vows witnessed by a bishop, priest, or deacon, they are not married but are, in fact, living in adultery.

What is truly shocking is that no one in the leadership of your RCIA class knew this! It just shows how little proper catechises many Catholics have had over the last 40+ years, and how much the mores (or lack of them) in our society have been taken for granted even by Christians who ought to know better.

 

[AngelRose81]

Your priest is right that this couple is living in sin, and there’s nothing technical about it. Until they obtain their annulments and subsequently have their current marriage vows witnessed by a bishop, priest, or deacon, they are not married but are, in fact, living in adultery.

What is truly shocking is that no one in the leadership of your RCIA class knew this! It just shows how little proper catechises many Catholics have had over the last 40+ years, and how much the mores (or lack of them) in our society have been taken for granted even by Christians who ought to know better.

I thought he was probably correct. He is a very orthodox priest and that is not what they have been used to in that parish from what I understand in talking to people. I think the problem with the RCIA team not knowing might have to do with the people that have been in charge in the past and the priests that have helped with it. Thanks for the good answer!

BTW, I am so happy that we have an orthodox priest now! I think a lot of the wrongs & abuses that were being done in our parish will be corrected now!

 

[YADA]

Yes your priest is correct. However, there are possiblities that need to be explored and I hope their priest will discuss them with the people involved…

What will they decide to do about their status if no decree of nullity is made? If both parites need decrees of nullity; what willl they do if only one party is granted the decree and the other party is denied?

If they are serious about their new catholic faith and the annullments were denied, this is a possibility they are going to have to face.

What if they are in fact still sacramentally married to other persons. What will they do? Continue to live in a state of sin? They may have children together and therefore need to remain together for the children. However, will they continue to live as husband and wife or will they determine that they do not need to live as ‘married’ persons even if they maintain one household?

What if they stopped living together as man and wife? If one party can go live with friends or family while they await the results from the tribunal, can they be received into the church?

A good priest woud be helping them work through the possiblities not just postponing the “ceremonies” or rites until a later date…what if that day is not going to arrive?

This is why I encourage people to seek annullments before they even decide to date if they are divorced. Because you should not even date if you have not rcived an annullment… It is so much harder for the non-catholics. And sometimes in RCIA we have two divorced and remarried non-catholics…For them it is a really hard concept to get their minds around and one no RCIA facilitator relishes…

 

[Deacon_Ed]

Your priest is correct, although your assumption for why is incorrect. We do not know if they are living in a state of sin or not. What we do know is that they are in an “irregular union” and since that union cannot be recognized by the Church at this time they cannot receive the sacraments for that would be proclaiming that the Church does recognize their union.

Once the tribunal has ruled on the previous marriages then your priest can decide how best to proceed.

Deacon Ed

 

[AngelRose81]

Your priest is correct, although your assumption for why is incorrect. We do not know if they are living in a state of sin or not. What we do know is that they are in an “irregular union” and since that union cannot be recognized by the Church at this time they cannot receive the sacraments for that would be proclaiming that the Church does recognize their union.

Once the tribunal has ruled on the previous marriages then your priest can decide how best to proceed.

Deacon Ed

What i guess I meant was that they are living a married life in the terms of being intimate with each other (they did say that they weren’t stopping that in RCIA the other night). In fact one of the team members said that it would be fine if the go to confession and lived as “brother & sister” until they were granted the annulments, but neither seemed to fond of that idea.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

There is a couple in my RCIA class and both of them had to get an annulment. They were married before and then divorced. They have been married to each other for a couple of years. They have applied for the annulments but haven’t gotten them back yet approved. Our priest told them that since their marriage to each other was invalid (both their 1st marriages are the recognized ones), and the annulment process would not be complete by Easter Vigil, they could not participate in the Sacraments of Confirmation and Communion with the rest of the class. I assume this is because technically they are “living in a state of sin” since their current marriage isn’t recognized by the Church.

Was our priest correct or has this couple been misinformed? No one in the RCIA team seemed to know the answer. They just said they hadn’t heard that before. Thanks!

Your priest is absolutely correct.

 

[AngelRose81]

Thanks for all your answers. You have definitely helped me out!

 

[puzzleannie]

. Our priest told them that since their marriage to each other was invalid (both their 1st marriages are the recognized ones), and the annulment process would not be complete by Easter Vigil, they could not participate in the Sacraments of Confirmation and Communion with the rest of the class. I assume this is because technically they are “living in a state of sin” since their current marriage isn’t recognized by the Church.

Was our priest correct or has this couple been misinformed? No one in the RCIA team seemed to know the answer. They just said they hadn’t heard that before. Thanks!

In the first place, what the priest told them should have been in private, not in front of the whole class. In the second place, it should not be a matter for discussion for the edification of the rest of the class. In the third place you should assume the priest knows what he is talking about because only he, and the couple, knows all the facts of this individual situation, and the relevant canon law that applies.

 

[AngelRose81]

In the first place, what the priest told them should have been in private, not in front of the whole class. In the second place, it should not be a matter for discussion for the edification of the rest of the class. In the third place you should assume the priest knows what he is talking about because only he, and the couple, knows all the facts of this individual situation, and the relevant canon law that applies.

The priest did not tell them in class. The couple chose to bring it up during our Q & A time, when the priest was not there, just the RCIA. I agree that it should not have been discussed during class but they started it anyway and they told us the details of the conversation and some of their personal ones as well. I did assume the priest was correct when they told us what he said, but several others didn’t, that’s why I wanted to ask the question here. Several of the members of the RCIA team don’t choose to consult the priest, deacons, etc. at all on such topics. I wanted to know incase anyone ever asked me the question. I have plenty of curious friends and family member who, ever since finding out I was going through RCIA, have been asking me hundreds of questions like that. Personally, I just wanted an answer to a question that possibly comes of a lot in today’s society. Thank you for your response.

 

[puzzleannie]

. Several of the members of the RCIA team don’t choose to consult the priest, deacons, etc. at all on such topics. I wanted to know incase anyone ever asked me the question. I have plenty of curious friends and family member who, ever since finding out I was going through RCIA, have been asking me hundreds of questions like that. Personally, I just wanted an answer to a question that possibly comes of a lot in today’s society. Thank you for your response.

If by the RCIA team you mean the catechists responsible for your formation, they have no right to make any such decision. Every candidate must have an interview with the pastor before even embarking on the RCIA process, precisely for the reasons that played out in your scenario. It is not the business of every member of the RCIA team–hospitality people, sponsors etc–but it is the business of the director. Many parishes report the opposite problem. The pastor expects the lay volunteers to do it all and refuses to interview the candidates and get involved in addressing the issues. It is a huge problem in my former parish and the RCIA team all quit because of it.

 

[chevalier]

The priest is correct in the following cases:

1. If they engage in sexual activities with each other. Note that a sin must be confessed and absolved for the state to cease.

or

1. If they don’t engage in sexual activities with each other for the time being but he has a good pastoral or moral reason to deny them the sacraments.

Note, however, that couples married civilly and living as brother and sister are not considered to be living in the state of sin if they have been absolved. In such a situation, it would be wrong to consider them to be living in the state of sin (for this reason) and on that base to deny them sacraments.