annulment turned down, what is next step

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You may want to speak with the person at your Parish who assisted you in the process (the priest or deacon or lay person - your advocate by some other name) - from what I have experienced, the tribunal mails the decisions to the Parish, not directly to the petetioner.
 
kage_ar said:
Sounds to me like God handeled it and provided you the proof you needed. He will do the same for those who seek Him.
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You may be right about that! It certainly seemed like a miracle that I was able to get onto his computer at last.
 
kage_ar said:
You may want to speak with the person at your Parish who assisted you in the process (the priest or deacon or lay person - your advocate by some other name) - from what I have experienced, the tribunal mails the decisions to the Parish, not directly to the petetioner.
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Not entirely accurate. I filed directly with my diocese through the mail. I never had any conversation whatsoever with my parish or pastor. When the annulment was granted the Tribunal mailed the decision directly to me.
 
agapewolf said:
They aren’t in the same situation. They are marry validly. You, and others like to OP are not. You chose to civilly “marry” someone even though their first marriage was presumned to be valid. That is the problem here. You wouldn’t be in this situation if you didn’t make that decision in the first place.

You are treading on very thin ice by saying you “don’t buy it”. The simple fact is that Christ instituted the church and the magisterium. Out of charity, they have begun to investigate certain attempted marriages to see if they are invalid. So, yes indeed, God would want people in a valid marriage to enjoy the marital embrace, and would not want others who are not married to abstain.

(This is not a judgement on your actions…I know many people who had conversions after they made these decisions, and didn’t know what they were doing at the time).

Even so, that doesn’t mean the circumstances from our sins (whether we know they are wrong or not) dont’ still exist. They do.
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Ouch - so folks like my husband and me who grew up Protestants because that’s what our parents made us - we would have to live out the rest of our lives as brother and sister if I/we joined the Catholic church? My husband is divorced from his first wife and he and I were legally married in the Protestant church way long before we considered becoming Catholic.

Things looked really bleak - really, really bleak - as we plodded through the annulment process so I could become Catholic. What if the annulment hadn’t come through? I’m hearing that I would have had to say “Sorry, honey, no sex anymore ever” or else I would have continued to be outside the church, looking in. Never being a part of the sacraments, always on the fringes, the lady sitting on the aisle, so to speak

Isn’t this correct?

Is it loving and fair?
 
Hateful and unfair would be the Catholic Church presuming that no marriages conducted between Protestants was valid. And if you convert it undoes all the bonds and all the vows they took as Protestants.

The Catholic Church has more respect than that for the marriage vows exchanged by Protestants.

Your husband would have to go through the annulment process for his first marriage. Which may not be valid if he undertook it with a notion too common in some Protestant denominations that it isn’t really perpetual. Not every church teaches that marriage is indissoluble. Could that apply to your husband or his ex?

Talk to a priest. They do want to help you if you want to convert.
 
Tinalewis,

I empathize with you tremendously.

Please realize that the Church’s rules have nothing to do with being mean, or harsh - but rather on the explicit words of Jesus that only death ends marriage.

The annullment rules are there for the protection of our souls, and out of mercy, not out of being harsh. Who wants to commit adultery through divorce and subsequent attempt at an invalid marriage?

The annullment process is only a recognition by the Church that the prior marriage was not valid in the first place.

Trust in God, and trust in the Church. Make sure that your advocate does the best for you.

God Bless,
 
tinalewis said:
Ouch - so folks like my husband and me who grew up Protestants because that’s what our parents made us - we would have to live out the rest of our lives as brother and sister if I/we joined the Catholic church? My husband is divorced from his first wife and he and I were legally married in the Protestant church way long before we considered becoming Catholic.

Things looked really bleak - really, really bleak - as we plodded through the annulment process so I could become Catholic. What if the annulment hadn’t come through? I’m hearing that I would have had to say “Sorry, honey, no sex anymore ever” or else I would have continued to be outside the church, looking in. Never being a part of the sacraments, always on the fringes, the lady sitting on the aisle, so to speak

Isn’t this correct?

Is it loving and fair?
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It is actually extremely loving and very fair. As noted very well in the last 2 posts, the Catholic church values and considers protestant marriages to be valid too. They also vow until death.,…and there is an expectation that people keep to their vows.

Your picture that you paint as “on the outside looking in” is not something that happened to you, or that the church is keeping you on the fringes. its the circumstances of your original choices by marrying someone that had already been married before. I realize you didn’t know what it was all about at the time, but that doesn’t change the actual truth and reality of the situation that there was a marriage before. (until proven otherwise).
 
We received a copy of the verdict, but at this point I cannot choose to read it, though my spouse has. I can no longer put my efforts into this when my spouse needs me. I got the drift of the verdict in our conversation, and, unfortunately, presumptions were made without valid outside expertise. At this time, because of the seriousness of his health, we cannot fight it. Although I want this very much, it is time for me to focus on what is more important right now. Everything just happened within a one week period of time, and it has become too much. Thank you everyone. Will let you know in the future.
 
forgetmenot said:
We received a copy of the verdict, but at this point I cannot choose to read it, though my spouse has. I can no longer put my efforts into this when my spouse needs me. I got the drift of the verdict in our conversation, and, unfortunately, presumptions were made without valid outside expertise. At this time, because of the seriousness of his health, we cannot fight it. Although I want this very much, it is time for me to focus on what is more important right now. Everything just happened within a one week period of time, and it has become too much. Thank you everyone. Will let you know in the future.
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Now more than ever it is important for you and your dh to come into communion with the rest of the Church then regardless of your personal wants. I am sorry if this sounds uncaring but the hereafter is more important than the here and now.
 
joandarc2008 said:
Now more than ever it is important for you and your dh to come into communion with the rest of the Church then regardless of your personal wants. I am sorry if this sounds uncaring but the hereafter is more important than the here and now.
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I agree with this (knowing that we too may have to face the brother/sister bond again). To look at it in a more easy manner, better purgatory served here on earth than after death. Especially if you offer up this cross for others.
 
agapewolf said:
It is actually extremely loving and very fair. As noted very well in the last 2 posts, the Catholic church values and considers protestant marriages to be valid too. They also vow until death.,…and there is an expectation that people keep to their vows.

Your picture that you paint as “on the outside looking in” is not something that happened to you, or that the church is keeping you on the fringes. its the circumstances of your original choices by marrying someone that had already been married before. I realize you didn’t know what it was all about at the time, but that doesn’t change the actual truth and reality of the situation that there was a marriage before. (until proven otherwise).
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It is not true that “the Catholic church values and considers Protestant marriages to be valid, too.” [That’s your quote].

My husband and I were validly married in the United Church of Christ [Protestant] church. The Protestants consider our marriage to be valid. Let me make this clear: I didn’t do anything immoral by marrying my husband. Ask our mothers. Ask our minister. Ask God. I knew what it was all about. Yes, I married a man who has a legal divorce, legal in all states in the United States, and legal in the United Church of Christ Protestant church, where our marriage took place. And yet the Catholic church did not consider our valid Protestant marriage to be valid, even though the Protestant church where we were married does, of course. Our United Church of Christ minister does.

So, it is simply not correct to state that “the Catholic church values and considers Protestant marriages to be valid, too.” If that were the case, my husband wouldn’t have had to get an annulment. The Catholic church values certain Protestant marriages and recognizes certain Protestant marriage to be valid, under certain conditions according to Catholic teaching.

I also wish to point out that my post above is in the past tense and my signature clearly states that I’m a Catholic now. So please offer your sympathy to the OP and others in her position, not to me. I do pray every day for all who are held back from becoming Catholic because of marriage issues.
 
forgetmenot said:
We received a copy of the verdict, but at this point I cannot choose to read it, though my spouse has. I can no longer put my efforts into this when my spouse needs me. I got the drift of the verdict in our conversation, and, unfortunately, presumptions were made without valid outside expertise. At this time, because of the seriousness of his health, we cannot fight it. Although I want this very much, it is time for me to focus on what is more important right now. Everything just happened within a one week period of time, and it has become too much. Thank you everyone. Will let you know in the future.
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I will keep you close in prayer!
 
tinalewis said:
It is not true that “the Catholic church values and considers Protestant marriages to be valid, too.” [That’s your quote].

My husband and I were validly married in the United Church of Christ [Protestant] church. The Protestants consider our marriage to be valid. Let me make this clear: I didn’t do anything immoral by marrying my husband. Ask our mothers. Ask our minister. Ask God. I knew what it was all about. Yes, I married a man who has a legal divorce, legal in all states in the United States, and legal in the United Church of Christ Protestant church, where our marriage took place. And yet the Catholic church did not consider our valid Protestant marriage to be valid, even though the Protestant church where we were married does, of course. Our United Church of Christ minister does.

So, it is simply not correct to state that “the Catholic church values and considers Protestant marriages to be valid, too.” If that were the case, my husband wouldn’t have had to get an annulment. The Catholic church values certain Protestant marriages and recognizes certain Protestant marriage to be valid, under certain conditions according to Catholic teaching.

I also wish to point out that my post above is in the past tense and my signature clearly states that I’m a Catholic now. So please offer your sympathy to the OP and others in her position, not to me. I do pray every day for all who are held back from becoming Catholic because of marriage issues.
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Yes it is absolutely true. A 2nd marriage (when the first is by divorce- no annullment) is NOT a marriage. So, yes, it is true, the catholic church values protestant marriages.

The reality is that a person cannot marry 2 people. That is what your husband tried to do, until the first is proven otherwise. This is an absolute truth. One cannot marry 2 people. Just because the protestants view it as a marriage does not make it so.

Also, most protestants do not believe that a marriage is a sacrament, but the Catholic church does, when it is between 2 baptized people.
 
tinalewis said:
It is not true that “the Catholic church values and considers Protestant marriages to be valid, too.” [That’s your quote].

My husband and I were validly married in the United Church of Christ [Protestant] church. The Protestants consider our marriage to be valid. Let me make this clear: I didn’t do anything immoral by marrying my husband. Ask our mothers. Ask our minister. Ask God. I knew what it was all about. Yes, I married a man who has a legal divorce, legal in all states in the United States, and legal in the United Church of Christ Protestant church, where our marriage took place. And yet the Catholic church did not consider our valid Protestant marriage to be valid, even though the Protestant church where we were married does, of course. Our United Church of Christ minister does.

So, it is simply not correct to state that “the Catholic church values and considers Protestant marriages to be valid, too.” If that were the case, my husband wouldn’t have had to get an annulment. The Catholic church values certain Protestant marriages and recognizes certain Protestant marriage to be valid, under certain conditions according to Catholic teaching.

I also wish to point out that my post above is in the past tense and my signature clearly states that I’m a Catholic now. So please offer your sympathy to the OP and others in her position, not to me. I do pray every day for all who are held back from becoming Catholic because of marriage issues.
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The Church did not consider your marriage to be invalid because it was done in a Protestant Church; the Church considered your marriage to be invalid because it was basically adultery as in God’s eyes your husband was still married to his first wife and no civil divorce can change that.
 
Hello Forgetmenot, I went to my Bible Class last night and one of our priest showed up to speak about SACRAMENTS. I asked him about the sacrament of marriage. He said something interesting that I never thought about… and that was the love between two people that are getting married. I realized last night that I never truly loved my ex-spouse.
I just used him to get away from my parents. I have always known that it is really very hard for me to love another person because I may not have much love for myself either.
The only thing that keeps me going is knowing that GOD IS LOVE and does love me.

Guess what? My mother is going with my sister and I to have our family priest sign my sister’s witness papers. I decided to also have my Mom be a witness too and have the priest sign a letter to the Tribunal stating that she was the one who forced me to get married as a teenager of 19yrs.old because she wanted a man to financially support me.
Plus, that it was the custom in the 1950’s for nice girls to get married before leaving home.
She said some other things too. She is my best witness due to the fact that it was HER IDEA and wish that I get married. She chose the boy for me to marry. It was more like an arranged marriage.
I hope the Tribunal reads everything she has to say.lol. Got to have a sense of humor with the Tribunal. They are only human beings with orders from the Pope.
Recently Pope Benedict wrote a letter to the Tribunals to really check out people who say they had pyschological problems. I think that is what has been slowing down the process.

I think the Tribunal will be happier if I said I had been hospitalized with mental problems. I think they would call that proof of the “psychic nature” that they talk about in their canon law…
I really don’t think the Tribunal understands about psychological problems that people have that can cause a marriage to fall apart. La Lucia
 
Hi. I am still reading the posts, though it’s been a rough go. Before I forget, I want to personally thank Chevalier for all her great (name removed by moderator)ut. This is not going to go away, and don’t anyone ever think it is going to get bagged, cuz it won’t. Right now it’s timing and it’s impossible to fight everything at once. It took 28 years for him to commence writing this, almost a year to submit, almost a year for a reply. As mentioned, I haven’t the stomach to read the verdict right now as we can’t fight this presently, though spiritually we are. It was almost like they turned him down three times: first when they called asking for us to contact the x ‘or else’, then with the first letter, and then with the verdict; it has become too hard for me as we’ve given our all these past few years, and I’ve waited many years for him to return to Mass and get this in. The tears have been flowing. My spouse did give me the ‘gist’ of it, which I mentioned was a quick presumption without a referral; he said basically that when he got married it wasn’t the best of circumstances. Give me a break. If I do choose to read this now I’ll probably get so upset that I’ll end up nagging my spouse to start now when he is facing a health crisis. I thank those who have written me who chose not to criticize, not to judge, not to condemn. I was here searching for help and suggestions. We do have to find a canon lawyer, though as I mentioned from what I’ve been told they’re all affiliated with the Tribunal. It’s a crazy system where were living; apply then ask for help on the second go 'round??? LaLucia, sounds like you have a good start. Get going on this right away cuz it will take a long time to write. I don’t know about the ‘love’ issue, cuz in truth this was part of my spouse’s issues, among several. I understand, also, re: someone else’s post, that people do function at certain things, i.e. work, even though there are emotional problems going on. This was one of the things we are trying to address. So, LaLucia, keep me updated, but what you wrote sounds pretty good to me. Thank you, and Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.
 
Are you sure you get the facts right - that is, did you get a final verdict (that the marriage is valid) or just a ruling that your claim won’t go through (and you need to fix the claim)? If the former is true, you can’t just reapply instead of going through the appeals process. Nor can you appeal after the deadline expires.

Also, if the tribunal asked you to contact the “ex”, then that’ds a great no-no. There’s absolutely no need and no basis for parties contacting each other. That’s the tribunal’s job. If they really did it, that’s something you must include in the appeal. It would show disregard for procedural rules at the very least. I’m also worried by the “or else” part. Was it more like, “or else there’s little chance,” or, “or else we’re gonna throw the case out?” The latter would be really serious. If the tribunal actually told you to contact the “ex”, you should seek an appointment in the bishop’s curia with a big complaint. Another reason why you can’t go through it without a canon lawyer. There’s little anyone can tell you without 1) reading all the documents, 2) knowing canon law and being trained to apply it. You can ask any canon lawyer you want for advice or ask him to write that appeal for you (as long as your husband signs it). It’s not the same as his going to court for you. It’s very easy to make a mistake or miss a deadline or ignore something important if you aren’t qualified. I’d go to a real canon lawyer myself if I had a complicated procedural issue to deal with.
 
Just wanted to post an update. It has been a very painful past few weeks. We have an update on my spouse’s condition and the outlook is good. Surgery is in the very near future and recovery will take some time. I want to thank everyone for their help and support and especially prayers. God knows I’ve needed the prayers cuz my prayer line has been kinda empty and I need to get back on track. I kinda lost my connection with God, so thanks for keeping me connected. I’ve been fairly distraught having been hit with two whammies in less than a week. I’ve been crying nearly every day since all the news hit. Today was the first day I didn’t shed a tear. (Funny, some people do have inner problems and still function on the outside, which is what I’ve been doing. The irony is the judge didn’t get that cuz he’s not trained in that area.) With the weight of his health issues bearing on him, my husband still acknowledged that the annulment issue has hurt me tremendously. He cannot start the annulment process again right now. I’m trying to remain a supportive wife. I was recently advised by a Church staffer to ‘be strong’ and that’s what I’m going to try to do. It ain’t over.
 
Hello Forgetmenot, I know how you feel because I am also feeling sad myself. Looking back at my life and lousy marriage… I have chosen to stay single. I am truly happy being single.

But I am happy that you have a husband to keep you company for the Holidays. Sorry about his illness but God will heal him as time passes. It is an illness that goes up and down at times. Some days are good and some days are bad.

It is not God who is causing your problems. The Tribunal is made up of “people” who are not perfect like God. They have their personal issues that get in the way of seeing the truth of what we all have to say about our annulments. This problem is MAN-MADE and the Tribunal is made up of single persons who don’t know or understand the life of a married person. So please pray to God to make things better at your Tribunal. It needs to change in their attitude.

Your husband’s illness has been around for thousands of years. I heard that Heron died from cancer thousands of years ago. Many illnesses have been around for thousands of years. I don’t blame God for that because I notice that some illnesses run in some familes.
It must be in our DNA genes for some of us. Some illnesses are caused by our environment.
So I think your husband became ill from his DNA or environment. I live in a polluted city so I think the environment may cause me problems in my future or my DNA genes may show up.
I inherited a vision problem from my dad. It has been proved that a macular hole in the eyes is caused in women by their fathers. Thanks dad.LOL. I can’t blame God for that problem.
I keep asking God to heal my eyes or at least to let me keep some of the vision I have presently. I pray almost every day to keep my vision as is or it would be nice to be able to see fully.

In my life I have never blamed God for anything… and I hope I never do. I have always kept my faith in God. I always thank God for what I have… and how lucky I am to have a prosperous life. I am not a truly happy person at times… but I am happy today because I leave tomorrow on my cruise for one week.
I posted on the other topic more info. for you on the L.A. Annulment. PEACE & JOY! Lucia
 
LaLucia said:
It is not God who is causing your problems. The Tribunal is made up of “people” who are not perfect like God. They have their personal issues that get in the way of seeing the truth of what we all have to say about our annulments. This problem is MAN-MADE and the Tribunal is made up of single persons who don’t know or understand the life of a married person. So please pray to God to make things better at your Tribunal. It needs to change in their attitude.
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This is absolutely ridiculous.

1: The tribunal can be made up of canon lawyers of all vocations, including married

2: Just because someone is single, does not mean they don’t know anything about the human condition. Priests here confessions of couples from both sides and can see objectively what problems are in marriages. I am single and I give lots of great advice to my married friends (they ask for it, and tell me that I help them).
 
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