Annulment validity

[Gilly_flower]

The church does allow first cousins to marry.

 

[Gorgias]

There’s a difference, too, between “within/outside of the Church” and “within/outside of a Catholic church”.

Agreed. That’s the distinction that is often not perceived. If I wanted to be clever, I guess I could say that it is possible for a marriage both to be celebrated outside of a Catholic church and be within the Catholic Church.

 

[warrior18]

If a priest made that statement he made a mistake. The priest is not the minister of the sacrament of marriage. The man and woman marrying are the ministers of the sacrament.

It was I who wrote incorrectly. What followed the semicolon in the statement you quoted hopefully clears up the confusion I caused (the priest is not marrying the couple). What you say above is how the priest laid it out for us. Thank you for the clarification and for your other comments.

 

[otjm]

Only with a dispensation, and that is not automatically granted. Canon Law, 1091.2

And in Oregon, it is not legal, so it is highly unlikely the Church would grant a dispensation here. Further, about half the states do not allow first cousins to marry.

And as a side note, I am a 5th generation Oregonian; I am related to two of the 12 founding families in a farm area west of Portland. There have been, I believe, 3 studies of families in that area; at lest one of them was by Oregon Health and Sciences University the local teaching hospital, and one possibly by Lewis and Clark College in Portland (tht may have been a Sociology Department study). There is a medical problem which seems to be genetically related through one of the family lines.

Several years ago I was joking with one of my first cousins about it, and she said “It’s funny - I was talking with one of my relatives (on the other side of her family) who has a teenage son. The boy came home and told his mother he wanted to date a girl at school and she said 'absoultely not! She is one of your first cousins!.”’

So it still goes on in that area.

 

[otjm]

While I agree with your comment about counseling, part of the problem is that by the time the couple gets to the priest, they may be carrying a significant amount of baggage; given that about 82% of Catholics in the 18 to 29 age do not attend Mass on a regular basis (comes from CARA) there are a multiple of scenarios which can be at play with the couple, with the net result being “You’re talking to the hand 'cuz the head ain’t listening”.

In other words, the two for whatever reason are going to get married. There is a high risk of something between poor and extremely poor catechesis; 10 to 20 years of exposure to the secular world (with its “heroes” going through multiple marriages and divorces); the very real possibility that one or both have parents who have divorced (ever hear of “Do as I say, not as I do” and the impact that “doing” has on forming consciences?); they may have been living together and possibly have a history or=f serial sexual encounters (and all that does to not only conscience but also to basic emotional drives - God made oxytocin, aka the “dumb” hormone), and a host of other issues.

Priests for the greatest part are not mind readers. And neither are the laity who assist in marriage prep.

 

[otjm]

According to CARA, approximately 7% of Catholics who have approached the tribunals have been granted a decree of nullity.

And according to the same, approximately 8% started the process and were not granted a decree of nullity; this includes those who were weeded out by a priest or advocate, those who could not obtain evidence 9could not find anyone to testify), those who for whatever reason decided to go no further, those who may have had the tribunal suggest they withdraw, and those in which the tribunal followed through with the case and did not find grounds to make a decree of nullity or which may have been overturned on appeal.

That leaves about 85% of Catholics who have divorced and not attempted to obtain a decree of nullity.

 

[His_helpmeet]

The last statement regarding the ministers of the sacrament depends on the rite of the Church. In the Latin (Roman) rite you are correct, the couple are the ministers of the sacrament. However, in many eastern rites, the priest is the minister of the sacrament. This is why a marriage of a Latin rite Catholic to an eastern rite Catholic must be officiated by a priest if the couple marry in the Latin rite. (A marriage of two Latin rite Catholics can be officiated by a priest or a deacon.)

 

[Gilly_flower]

I am English and married in the Catholic church to a first cousin.

 

[otjm]

Okay. So did you receive a dispensation?

 

[TomH1]

I inferred we were talking about the Latin Catholic Church. Perhaps I ought to have been specific about the church to which I referred.

I do agree this would not apply in the Eastern Catholic churches. That is, of course, canonical churches, not as you said, rites.