Annulment writing assistance for spouse

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forgetmenot

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It’s been a while since my last post, and my husband of nearly thirty years is unable to answer some crucial questions re: the history he had with his ex-spouse. In particular, he knows they dated less than a year, he recognizes their immaturity, there’s some significant overshadowing by her parents. But, other than that, he has no recall of who asked who to get married, how long they were engaged, and, truthfully, he doesn’t know much about her other than the fact that he needed someone at the time, and she probably did, as well. If you read some of my other posts, you might see that we have had a long history together, and we mutually broke up, prior to their meeting. A relative told him he was on the rebound, which he agrees with. He’s made some contacts, but no one can help him anymore. So it’s a genuine mess, cuz he can’t remember anything else. He’s been told he needs more information before he submits this, but he’s really at a loss. I don’t know what further he can do. It seems he has some good points, but he doesn’t remember much about their premarriage dating and little about her:shrug. Anyone have any suggestions or been in a similar memory loss? We’ve done timelines, and I’ve even had some things written and saved from years ago that has helped him a bit. This is really dragging on into nowhere. 🤷 Thanks.
God bless.
fmn
p.s. I agree with the young person who recently wrote - we do need some type of forum where people can exchange ideas on how to get the paper work written up, and particularly advice from those who’ve gotten annulments, citing examples of what’s helped them.
 
Hi there,
I just submitted mine, and I found the book “Annulment Do you have a case” by Terence Tierney to be helpful. It contains examples of forms for petioners, witnesses, and respondents. I used the questions as my guide in my narrative. I started with my family background - my growing up times, my college years, how did I date - did I attend church services - what were my own shortcomings. Then I covered his family (what I knew from him and from personal experiences). I then covered how we met and married and what led to the end. I also wrote about how I sought counseling in the domestic violence shelter to ensure I wouldn’t repeat the mistakes of the past.

One thing leads to another. As I recalled one espisode, it reminded me of another.

Maybe try a brainstorming exercise. THink “family reuion” or Holidays - what does that bring to mind both for his growing up and in that marriage. write down recollections. Then try “employment” or ‘vacations’- same thing. pretty soon the memories should come.

Hope that’s helpful - the book really helped me form my narrative - but then mine was 35 pages! However, the Priest said that was good - it would give the Tribunal a lot of information to form an opinion on.

Blessings,
Elizabeth
Soli Deo Gloria:harp:
 
What advice has the priest given you? I would think the Tribunal would be somewhat understanding that after 30 years some details would be hard to remember.

I recently filled out the initial annulment application and couldn’t remember what day we had gotten married and certain other things. It took a while to track down all of the information. I am waiting to get the packet in the mail where I will need to give the narrative and so on. It’s hard to be patient!

Could it be that part of it is just wanting to block out the memories? I know that I very rarely think about my first civil and crazy marriage. It has been difficult to bring it back into my mind and has resulted in a fair amount of guilt, etc.
 
Thanks for the replies. I appreciate them. We’ll look into the book, though we’ve already bought a couple. The biggest problem is he can no longer come up with any further information. We’ve tried the holiday thing, and it doesn’t seem to jar anything. Yeah, he even says he doesn’t remember essentially cuz he even says he blocked it out a long time ago. The problem is there’s a lot of vital stuff he can’t recall - dating, who asked who to get married, even things about her he doesn’t remember… We’ve been told it’s a guy thing. I’ve been reading several postings as of late, and when I see people with 30-100+ pages, it’s freakin’ me out, cuz he’s nowhere near that. So I don’t know if anyone else has had this problem.

I keep thinking he has enough information, but he was already told he doesn’t. I don’t know what further can be said.

Can anyone confirm, just from my initial writing, that he’s at least on the right track. Any other suggestions?

Thanks for the support.
fmn
 
Well, I think it’s great you’re trying to help him remember, can he ask relatives?

The marriage certificate and divorce decree should have details like dates and reason for divorce. Maybe even more if the divorce decree reads like mine. If you don’t already have those documents, you’ll need 'em. I had to send for certified copies of my divorce decree, marriage certificate and baptismal certificate. I made sure I had them - the priest told me I’d need that and three witnesses and my narrative. He also said that perhaps if there was testimony in the divorce from witnesses perhaps that could be used as well. Maybe your husband’s lawyer still has records from that case that could be tracked down…Or the court records could include the testimony. Any of those things could help him…

Elizabeth
:harp:
 
Thanks. I cannot help being involved because of how much we always loved each other, and how we both agree on how we both messed this up for ourselves and others… This has become a joint venture, because, in truth, it healed a lot of wounds between us, and continues to.
The relatives did give him a slight bit of information which was useful, but it was very little. Our state has no-contest divorces, so there’s nothing in the narratives. He’s already received copies of their marriage certificate and her baptism certificate. He’s covered a lot of bases needed to complete the paperwork, 'cept for his recall about his ex. He has one last contact to make, but I don’t know if it will pan out. Someone previously also said to be careful not to let other’s memories become your own. We’re at this roadblock of not recalling how they got together, and all. So, it’s pretty serious when you can’t recall how you got together and married someone. He basically didn’t know her, and went along for the ride. She was extremely young, and he was immature as well, though older. They knew each other less than a year, I want to say about 6-9 months, before they got engaged. I don’t know how that is going to sit with the Tribunal when you can’t describe your love life as it really didn’t exist, as far as he recalls. Basically, again, he just went along with getting married; he doesn’t know who asked who, and he never bought her a ring - they used her mother’s. She may have been engaged previously, if you can believe that at that age. But still, I don’t know what else can be written when he has no recall. This is the problem. We’re counting on the immaturity thing, and the fact that our previous relationship was serious, and, as a relative pointed out, he was still on the rebound. She also lied to his relatives about her age, but we don’t think she lied to him. That’s the short of it.

I can understand, too, how he says he just went along with it, cuz he needed someone. I had a boyfriend that I hung onto even though I can honestly say I didn’t love him. Thank God we didn’t get married. I just needed to be with someone, which was his deal, as well.

The feeling we have is that what we have so far is not enough. This is difficult. And for someone who’s waited so long, my patience is just about dried up. I tend to get angry about it, and start blaming him for not doing this sooner, though I’ve been asking him all these years. He was not an avid church goer, and has since started attending Mass quite regularly and enjoying it, particularly because of a new pastor. Funny how some priests can just kill it for you, as they had for me at times.

Thank you for letting me open up to you. It’s been hard.
fmn:)
 
Can he talk to the priest that married him, or those he was counseled by in pre-cana? My dd’s father (hopeful future husband) talked to the priest who married them and counseled them for pre-cana (only a one-time counsel was required for his pre-cana, nothing more, no conferences, no other meetings, just that one with the priest, even though he married a non-Christian :confused: ). The priest said to him something along the lines of “why are you here? There’s nothing I can do for you”. This is also a priest who goes against the magisterium a whole lot. I guess he wasn’t shocked that they had divorced.
 
I’ll talk to my DH about the pre-cana conference a bit more. My recollection of what they did was just go through the motions because they both were not practicing Catholics, though they were still Catholic. The idea was to go through the motions to have the nice church wedding, I’m sure. So here we are now, me always wanting a blessing, him, not having cared for all these years and finally waking up to the reality of it. I doubt very much if a priest or whoever put on the conference would remember them, but we’ll certainly discuss it.

I sincerely appreciate all the suggestions, and this is one we’ll talk about more.

We can use as many thoughts and ideas as possible!
Thanks.
🙂
 
I didn’t want you think I forgot about you, but I am now to the point of being as stumped as the two of you as to jog his memory.:ehh: It’s not like you can take him mud-bogging on open terrain and hope it makes his memories engage…
 
Good to hear from you, again! It’s trying, and I’m afraid to say seeming hopeless.

And so, ‘Chicago’, what’ll we do now??? Do you think this can possibly fly without some of the critical stuff?

I just ordered a ton of books from amazon today re: annulments to the tune of about fifty bucks - just hoping one question, one thought, just one blurb would help light the fires! We already had a couple of decent books, and now we’ll have a library with the seven others soon to arrive! (I did order the Tierney book.) I’m trying to remain optimistic with all this, but its really hard as it seems to be going to the wayside, which is exactly what happened over the years… start, stop, start, stop… only this time he did put an extreme amount of work into this, but he reached the point where nothing more is coming forth, and I’m afraid it will get buried again.

I really appreciate everyones support in the forum. If anyone has any examples that might fit along the lines of immaturity, interfering parents, or anything else similar, I would love to hear from you, as well.

fmn:o
 
forgetmenot said:
I’ve been reading several postings as of late, and when I see people with 30-100+ pages, it’s freakin’ me out, cuz he’s nowhere near that.
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I was married for over 30 years. My narrative was two pages, which was the maximum the Tribunal would accept. Granted, the narrative STARTED at about 10 pages (first draft). But as I thought and prayed and cut the irrelevant stuff (and reduced the font size and the margins of the pages), it ended up being two pages (single spaced). They want quality, not necessarily quantity.

He should just give it his best effort. It may be more than enough. And, if it is not, the Tribunal will ask for additional information. The Tribunal is not your enemy, trying to trick you in some way. It is only trying to find the truth, and to help you find the truth as well.
 
Thank you.
Did this all work out for you? Were your grounds similar at all?
fmn
 
forgetmenot said:
Thank you.
Did this all work out for you? Were your grounds similar at all?
fmn
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Without knowing the complete details of your situation, or the Tribunal in which you are seeking a decision (they do vary – sometimes greatly, usually not so much – in how they proceed; that is frequently because of staffing issues as well as basic philosophy), I wouldn’t begin to guess about your situation. The Tribunal in my conservative diocese took three years to reach its decision. Since the length of my marriage was over 30 years, I did not think this out of line. They did a very thorough job of investigation and reached their conclusion that the marriage had not been valid since its inception.

And life is good . . . 😉
 
Wow! My spouse is seeking the annulment. We were advised it would take 6-9 months on average. They were married over thirty years ago for approximately 4 years. If you read my posts, here and there, you might get the 'gist of it. The biggest problem is that my DH has no recall of what transpired during their dating, who asked who to get married, and basically a lot of stuff concerning his ex prior to their marriage. He’s pretty much forgotten a lot. We’ve been married 28+ years, civilly. So that’s where we’re at. I can only say “holy cow”, when I think of how long you had been married before seeking the annulment. Were the grounds immaturity? If not, you need not answer, that’s ok. I’m sure it was very difficult for you to write.

Thanks.
fmn:)
 
Just curious, have you considered checking with the Tribunal in the area where he married? My understand is that there are choices in this - the original place of marriage and home is the first choice, then the place you live now, and then even the place she lives, I think.
Maybe his evidence would be enough there…:o
 
I think you have given an idea of things he can expand on.

Why were they in such a hurry to get married? Why did she lie about her age? What were her parents like? Were they overbearing? Was she escaping a bad home situation? Did they intend to have children when they married? Did she or he have many boyfriends/girlfriends previously? Were there drugs involved? Pregnancy scares? Why were they not practicing their faith? Was the church ceremony just to please others? Was the marriage to please someone else? Why did it only last 4 years. Was there infidelity? Who asked for the divorce first? What was their first fight about? Was there any violence or infidelity? Were there any great lies?

If he barely knows anything about her, that is a sign of lack of due discretion… he didn’t bother to find out the basic facts about the woman he was marrying? Did he know her family at all?

It just seems if he knew so little about her and the details are so fuzzy, it indicates he really didn’t put much of himself into it, did he?

Did he intend to make it permanent when he married her? What was HE thinking when he got married?

Good luck. Sometimes a whole lot of careless attitude when someone gets married can indicate much to a tribunal. Please tell me he remembers her name at least.
 
Liberanosamalo said:
I think you have given an idea of things he can expand on.

Why were they in such a hurry to get married? Why did she lie about her age? What were her parents like? Were they overbearing? Was she escaping a bad home situation? Did they intend to have children when they married? Did she or he have many boyfriends/girlfriends previously? Were there drugs involved? Pregnancy scares? Why were they not practicing their faith? Was the church ceremony just to please others? Was the marriage to please someone else? Why did it only last 4 years. Was there infidelity? Who asked for the divorce first? What was their first fight about? Was there any violence or infidelity? Were there any great lies?

If he barely knows anything about her, that is a sign of lack of due discretion… he didn’t bother to find out the basic facts about the woman he was marrying? Did he know her family at all?

It just seems if he knew so little about her and the details are so fuzzy, it indicates he really didn’t put much of himself into it, did he?

Did he intend to make it permanent when he married her? What was HE thinking when he got married?

Good luck. Sometimes a whole lot of careless attitude when someone gets married can indicate much to a tribunal. Please tell me he remembers her name at least.
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Best advice thus far 👍
 
I’ve heard a bad story about the Tribunal where he married and where she still lives, and was told in our diocese it would be better. There is a Brother who goes all over the place giving guidance - basically more straight forward than the local pastor; this is his calling, and he is good to work with. He is the one who told my spouse that he needed more information.🙂 fmn
 
GMARIE -
What you wrote is phenomenal. A lot of the questions we’ve already touched base on, but the “due discretion” term is not one which we’ve considered, unless we’re talking about maturity. I never thought his barely knowing her would fall under this term, and I appreciate very much your pointing it out. The basic reason why he got married was because he felt he needed someone and it was just time for him to settle down. They spent most of their time together in the company of her parents, and her mother was basically with them all the time, even into the marriage. I think this girl just wanted to get married as well, with no consideration as to whom, but that’s my opinion. I believe, like I previously mentioned, she was engaged just before meeting my DH. The church thing just wasn’t their bag; can’t say I haven’t had my ups and downs. They didn’t attend Mass after marriage, either. He knew her family very well, like I said they were with them all the time. Some of the other questions you’ve posed are excellent. I’ve printed what you wrote to go over with my DH tonight, hopefully. You’ve been very helpful, and, please feel free to give any further suggestions.
fmn:thumbsup:
 
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