Annulment.

[KatholikosMercy]

If my wife divorces me should I apply for an annulment of just live single?

Also, if I date is fornication a mortal or venial sin?

Is co-habitation a sin?

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

If my wife divorces me should I apply for an annulment of just live single?

If you are divorced and there is no hope for a reconciliation, then it is up to you if you want to file for an annulment. However, I would suggest consulting your priest first. It is a long process and it is a complete process. You need to make that decision. If you want to remarry in the future in the Catholic Church, you must have an annulment or your next marriage will not be valid. You will still be viewed as married to your first wife and living in sin with the second.

Also, if I date is fornication a mortal or venial sin?

Is sex before marraige a sin? Yes. Teaching of the church that it is a mortal sin. Do you think that would change because you are divorced?

Is co-habitation a sin?

Everyday of the week! Even on the weekends.

 

[KatholikosMercy]

If you are divorced and there is no hope for a reconciliation, then it is up to you if you want to file for an annulment. However, I would suggest consulting your priest first. It is a long process and it is a complete process. You need to make that decision. If you want to remarry in the future in the Catholic Church, you must have an annulment or your next marriage will not be valid. You will still be viewed as married to your first wife and living in sin with the second.

If my wife departs and then divorces me even after having been married in the church does she then become an unbeliever? If she can do this then could a true marriage have ever existed? I think not.

Is sex before marraige a sin? Yes. Teaching of the church that it is a mortal sin. Do you think that would change because you are divorced?

Can you show me where the church teaches this fall would be Mortal sin and not venial. After all if I am a passionate person and don’t mean to sin but can’t fight the flesh very well then am I condemned because I am weak. Or am I immature and not ready for marriage at all?

Everyday of the week! Even on the weekends.

Why is just living together sin? I disagree. If there are technicalities of time and impediments of distance then whats the fault of co-habitation if the intent to commit is there and one can remain chaste until the technicalities can be overcome.

How else is one to get established in a new area. We are living in a nuclear society and its possible to get to know someone online and on the phone that you want to spend more time with. Is it then wrong to go there and spend time with them if you cannot afford a motel room for several weeks?

 

[puzzleannie]

Get some counselling now, both marriage and pastoral, before the worst happens. If despite your best efforts she does initiate the divorce, and you have a strong conviction your marriage was invalid from day one (not because of anything that happened afterward), do ask your priest about annulment, especially if you anticipate someday wanting to marry again. You will not be allowed to initiate a petition for annulment until at least a year after the divorce becomes final, but the sooner you do, while paperwork and witnesses are still more readily available, the better.

Fornication is always a mortal sin, if by that you mean sexual activity between unmarried persons. Unless and until your marriage is declared null, you are married in the eyes of the Church, and sexual activity with anyone else would objectively be the mortal sin of adultery. Cohabiting is a sin, a mortal sin called fornication, if you mean what society generally means by that word. MOrality is established by God, not by personal opinion or majority vote. Whether or not one believes it is sinful is beside the point, the damage is done because sin always damages the individual, the victims, and society. Always. without exception.

 

[KatholikosMercy]

Get some counselling now, both marriage and pastoral, before the worst happens. If despite your best efforts she does initiate the divorce, and you have a strong conviction your marriage was invalid from day one (not because of anything that happened afterward), do ask your priest about annulment, especially if you anticipate someday wanting to marry again. You will not be allowed to initiate a petition for annulment until at least a year after the divorce becomes final, but the sooner you do, while paperwork and witnesses are still more readily available, the better. Fornication is always a mortal sin, if by that you mean sexual activity between unmarried persons. Unless and until your marriage is declared null, you are married in the eyes of the Church, and sexual activity with anyone else would objectively be the mortal sin of adultery.

But I’ve been living abandoned for a year and a half and alone at the war the year before that. No contact from my spouse except through the courts. The divorce finally comes before the judge for finality Jun 8th. Ive given up the house and any chance of reconcilliation. We have had problems through the whole marriage. Two seperations and councelors. She is a convert but betrayed and abandoned me before. I suppose I was divorced years ago but kept trying. The legality of the thing is only a technicality. If God has brought someone else into my life before that technicality is up then should I not accept that gift?

I have a spiritual advisor. I know about annulment. I was unaware there was any time limit to file for one though.

I have been married and annuled before twice. Neither of the first two spouses were baptized and it was a simple declaration of lack of canonical form. I was also out of the church then.

This time I did things in line with the church and it has failed again.

There were unresolved issues as you can immagine that I wont go into. Needless to say I have a case for annulment on grounds of mental illness and abandonment.

What I want to know is just because I can apply for one and God has shown me hope of a new life with someone should I?

Scripture says if the unbeliever departs then you must let them go.

We attended daily Mass and even read the brievery together for a year before we got married. Is the fact that she departs from God without me and pursues this divorce make her an unbeliever? Am I then free?

 

[puzzleannie]

for a specific marriage question only your pastor can advise you on how to proceed, and only the canon law tribunal can advise you on grounds for annulment and the procedures. I will tell you however, that if you were granted an annulment in the past (declaration of invalidity due to lack of form is not an annulment) you will be counselled, should you ever wish to remarry, on the specific grounds and circumstances of that annulment, to make sure the conditions have been resolved or no longer pertain.

It is useless on this forum to discuss individual cases. There is no way to know all the facts, which is why there is an investigation. You are quite likely right that wife’s actions after the marriage could very well indicate her state of mind and intent at the time of mariage, but by themselves they are not grounds for annulment. Your time would be better spent in discussion with your pastor on this topic.

 

[dulcissima]

But I’ve been living abandoned for a year and a half and alone at the war the year before that. No contact from my spouse except through the courts. The divorce finally comes before the judge for finality Jun 8th. Ive given up the house and any chance of reconcilliation. We have had problems through the whole marriage. Two seperations and councelors. She is a convert but betrayed and abandoned me before. I suppose I was divorced years ago but kept trying. The legality of the thing is only a technicality. If God has brought someone else into my life before that technicality is up then should I not accept that gift?

I have a spiritual advisor. I know about annulment. I was unaware there was any time limit to file for one though.

I have been married and annuled before twice. Neither of the first two spouses were baptized and it was a simple declaration of lack of canonical form. I was also out of the church then.

This time I did things in line with the church and it has failed again.

There were unresolved issues as you can immagine that I wont go into. Needless to say I have a case for annulment on grounds of mental illness and abandonment.

What I want to know is just because I can apply for one and God has shown me hope of a new life with someone should I?

Scripture says if the unbeliever departs then you must let them go.

We attended daily Mass and even read the brievery together for a year before we got married. Is the fact that she departs from God without me and pursues this divorce make her an unbeliever? Am I then free?

I would talk to your priest about when you can file the paperwork for an annulment. In my diocese, you can do it as soon as you have a copy of the final divorce papers signed by a judge.

As far as starting a new relationship now, no you can’t do that. I’ve just had a discussion about this with my priest, and really it is too easy to get carried away and now is not the right time to develop a relationship that you hope will have a future. Now is the time to work on yourself and with your relationship with God, and a big part of that relationship has to do with being obedient to his command’s and to the teachings of his Church. Especially if this is a woman that you think you could have a future with, you need to back away from a relationhip until you are free to pursue one, otherwise you will be building on a weak foundation.

You have been married three times, and yet it seems like you have much to learn about your faith. I think that the most practical thing to do at this point would be to avoid near occasions of sin, and spend some time learning about marriage and what it takes to be a good husband and spiritual leader of a family. It is also a good time to temper your passions with some discipline.

 

[KatholikosMercy]

for a specific marriage question only your pastor can advise you on how to proceed, and only the canon law tribunal can advise you on grounds for annulment and the procedures. I will tell you however, that if you were granted an annulment in the past (declaration of invalidity due to lack of form is not an annulment) you will be counselled, should you ever wish to remarry, on the specific grounds and circumstances of that annulment, to make sure the conditions have been resolved or no longer pertain.

It is useless on this forum to discuss individual cases. There is no way to know all the facts, which is why there is an investigation. You are quite likely right that wife’s actions after the marriage could very well indicate her state of mind and intent at the time of mariage, but by themselves they are not grounds for annulment. Your time would be better spent in discussion with your pastor on this topic.

I know what he says. I speak with him monthly at least. I know what my heart says and I know what God says. I wanted opinions from here.

 

[KatholikosMercy]

I would talk to your priest about when you can file the paperwork for an annulment. In my diocese, you can do it as soon as you have a copy of the final divorce papers signed by a judge.

As far as starting a new relationship now, no you can’t do that. I’ve just had a discussion about this with my priest, and really it is too easy to get carried away and now is not the right time to develop a relationship that you hope will have a future. Now is the time to work on yourself and with your relationship with God, and a big part of that relationship has to do with being obedient to his command’s and to the teachings of his Church. Especially if this is a woman that you think you could have a future with, you need to back away from a relationhip until you are free to pursue one, otherwise you will be building on a weak foundation.

I understand that. I wasn’t looking for a relationship. I believe it is of God. This Civil divorce has taken 2.5 years so far. I am not building anything as I can’t though I have an opportunity and hope for the future that we both understand. In effect my divorce occured the first time my spouse abandoned me and refused to reconcile 7 years ago. I endured a one year seperation then and 2.5 this time. Reconcilliation is out of the question. So why then should I wait to acknowlege hope for happiness in the future just because the courts are slow?

You have been married three times, and yet it seems like you have much to learn about your faith. I think that the most practical thing to do at this point would be to avoid near occasions of sin, and spend some time learning about marriage and what it takes to be a good husband and spiritual leader of a family. It is also a good time to temper your passions with some discipline.

You misunderstand. Let me clarify a bit. Cradle catholic who strayed as a teen and lived in debauchery for 15 years. When 12 years ago I was moved to conversion after 3 kids and two secular marriages. I reverted- catechized myself, even went to Medugorje 10 years ago, got a college degree, became a 4th degree kofc and extraordinary minister of the Eucharist. Got an annulment and then met someone at an Easter Dinner and 2 years later wound up married. That was in 2000. She was a convert and I did my best to carry her toward Jesus. Unfortunatly she abandoned me and the faith one year later. A trial I endured and eventually made reconcilliation a reality. 3 years later the world then wore on us again. in 04 the military took me away. She abandoned me again and I havent the strenght to suffer it any longer. I actually turned her over to God long ago. The divorce hasn’t caught up and God has brought someone else into my life who I am NOT sinning with but love very much.

I HAVE NOT given into Passions or evil Spirits as you suspect in this case and I know my faith.
Please do not judge me, not saying that you are. I have departed from my past ways.

 

[dulcissima]

I do understand, being in the same position myself. You wait because that is the best thing that you can do. It is also the only way that you can be sure that you are acting in accordance with God’s will.

 

[KatholikosMercy]

I do understand, being in the same position myself. You wait because that is the best thing that you can do. It is also the only way that you can be sure that you are acting in accordance with God’s will.

I feel I have no choice but to wait. I am learning great restraint that I never had before. Its unfortunate to be maturing at my age.

Thanks for the understanding.

 

[BelFarfalla]

What I want to know is just because I can apply for one and God has shown me hope of a new life with someone should I?
Scripture says if the unbeliever departs then you must let them go.

If I were you I’d get the annulment where you find someone else or not. It’s about keeping your life in order. Why remain married on any level to someone who has been so toxic to you?

We attended daily Mass and even read the brievery together for a year before we got married. Is the fact that she departs from God without me and pursues this divorce make her an unbeliever? Am I then free?

No you are not free just because of her actions. There are things that must be taken care of with the church. Remember that marriage is not only supposed to be a spiritual bond… it is also a legal bond.
You will need to ask your priest the above questions. I know that when my husband’s ex-wife abandoned him and their 3 children for a life of running around, drinking and sex it was his priest who approached him. The Priest told him that under the circumstances that the Priest would help him with an annulment.
Do it as soon as you can and move on with life.
As for the sex outside of marriage bit, living together or not… it’s a mortal sin. I know many Catholics who did engage in it before marriage. Then they confessed and all right before the marriage. Planning to sin and then taking advantage of the ‘forgiveness’ is very disingenuous.
Were you active sexually before marriage with the wife who is divorcing you now? If you were, then maybe things were not really done according to the Church after all.
It’s not easy to be Catholic…. Don’t know what else to tell you.

 

[KatholikosMercy]

If I were you I’d get the annulment where you find someone else or not. It’s about keeping your life in order. Why remain married on any level to someone who has been so toxic to you?

No you are not free just because of her actions. There are things that must be taken care of with the church. Remember that marriage is not only supposed to be a spiritual bond… it is also a legal bond.
You will need to ask your priest the above questions. I know that when my husband’s ex-wife abandoned him and their 3 children for a life of running around, drinking and sex it was his priest who approached him. The Priest told him that under the circumstances that the Priest would help him with an annulment.
Do it as soon as you can and move on with life.
As for the sex outside of marriage bit, living together or not… it’s a mortal sin. I know many Catholics who did engage in it before marriage. Then they confessed and all right before the marriage. Planning to sin and then taking advantage of the ‘forgiveness’ is very disingenuous.
Were you active sexually before marriage with the wife who is divorcing you now? If you were, then maybe things were not really done according to the Church after all.
It’s not easy to be Catholic…. Don’t know what else to tell you.

Thats alot. Thanks. Its good to hear confirmation of some of the things I have descerned this past year or two.

About being free, I know that I am not. I do however know that God has put someone else in my path. That I have to be patient. Its also a grace to have that hope for the future. I should mention that it didn’t come until I was resolved to live single and I have no intentions of becoming sexually active outside of marriage.

With the wife who is divorcing me that did happen a few times during our long engagement. Out of weakness and lack of dicipline. I knew it then and we repented of it. My contrition was sincere. I can’t speak for her anymore. If hers wasn’t then maybe that was part of the problem.

As you can probably tell from my posts in this thread the thorn in my side has been the war of the flesh. The road back from that stuggle isn’t an easy one. There has been so much pain and loss.

 

[puzzleannie]

I know what he says. I speak with him monthly at least. I know what my heart says and I know what God says. I wanted opinions from here.

why would opinions from CAF be of use to you? nothing said here will have any affect on your annulment.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

If my wife departs and then divorces me even after having been married in the church does she then become an unbeliever? If she can do this then could a true marriage have ever existed? I think not.

How does the wife leaving you make her an unbeliever? The two do not go hand in hand. If she leaves you or divorces you then you must realize that the marriage did exist. If you are to receive an annulment, the Magesterium is stating that the sacrament was not valid. That is for them to decide.

Can you show me where the church teaches this fall would be Mortal sin and not venial. After all if I am a passionate person and don’t mean to sin but can’t fight the flesh very well then am I condemned because I am weak.

The Catechism states:

2353
Fornication is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons and of human sexuality which is naturally ordered to the good of spouses and the generation and education of children. Moreover, it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young.

It also states in the Bible that no fornicator (excuse me that I do not have the direct verse in front of me) will enter into heaven.

If you cannot “fight the flesh” then you need to pray to St. Joseph for the strength to do so. It is not up to us to deciee whether this is right or not, God did not ask us our opinion. He stated that it was wrong and the Church has echoed that in her teachings.

Or am I immature and not ready for marriage at all?

This is a question that you must explore for yourself. You stated that you have been married and divorced/annuled twice already. There may be a reoccuring theme here. I am not saying that you are or are not mature enough for marriage. I think that you may want to reevaluate your view on marriage, especially seeing as how you seem to think that sex before marriage is okay as is living together.

Why is just living together sin? I disagree. If there are technicalities of time and impediments of distance then whats the fault of co-habitation if the intent to commit is there and one can remain chaste until the technicalities can be overcome.

How else is one to get established in a new area. We are living in a nuclear society and its possible to get to know someone online and on the phone that you want to spend more time with. Is it then wrong to go there and spend time with them if you cannot afford a motel room for several weeks?

Living together is a near occasion of sin. I know that you may disagree, but again God did not ask you and He did not ask me. We are not allowed to make up the rules as we go along. We are not allowed to change what has been taught just to meet our current situation.

We all have to make sacrifices in this life. Living the life of a Catholic is not “easy” based upon what the view of society is in this day and age. But again, that is one of the strongest things about the Catholic church…she does not change, she is consistent, she is unfailing, she stands strong.

I am sorry that we do not see eye to eye on these issues, but Catholicism is not the religion that we can pick and choose what we like based upon our lifestyle.

 

[KatholikosMercy]

why would opinions from CAF be of use to you? nothing said here will have any affect on your annulment.

Thats up to the Holy Spirit. I don’t pretend to predict or even claim that I can understand how God works. I just know and trust that he does and that he uses us how he will. I have already gotten comforting and helpful opinions. The final decisions are ultimately mine but we are one body in christ and I value everyones opinion as much as their prayers.

True nothing said here changes the tribunal but it makes me feel better and who knows, maybe someone else will find something useful from the whitness.

 

[KatholikosMercy]

How does the wife leaving you make her an unbeliever?

Its how I read Pauls Epistles. How could she pursue a divorce and still believe the Gospel?

It states in the Bible that no fornicator will enter into heaven.

I have the grace from God to be able to live chaste and am. This is not the problem.

You stated that you have been married and divorced/annuled twice already. Lack of form isn’t exactly an annulment but I hear you.There may be a reoccuring theme here. I know there was, thought it ended with my conversion. This time is quite different. I am abandoned this time.I think that you may want to reevaluate your view on marriage, especially seeing as how you seem to think that sex before marriage is okay as is living together.Have reevaluated to the point that I can live single and chaste for the rest of my life and intended to. Then someone came into my life unexpectadly.

I DO NOT think premarital sex is ok. Dont see how I gave you that idea.

Living together is a near occasion of sin. Maybe without the proper self control or restraint. For me it isn’t. Nor should it be for anyone else for that matter. Clergy do it all the time.I know that you may disagree, but again God did not ask you and He did not ask me. We are not allowed to make up the rules as we go along. We are not allowed to change what has been taught just to meet our current situation. Its the situation that may dictate co-habitation. I was supprised as you are. I refused to co-habitate during my last engagement but this time If I am to pursue this relationship after I am divorced it may be neccessary. Of course it would be chaste until married in the church. I believe its the commitment that makes the difference. I wouldn’t be entering into it as a trial marriage.

We all have to make sacrifices in this life. Living the life of a Catholic is not “easy” based upon what the view of society is in this day and age. But again, that is one of the strongest things about the Catholic church…she does not change, she is consistent, she is unfailing, she stands strong.

I am sorry that we do not see eye to eye on these issues, but Catholicism is not the religion that we can pick and choose what we like based upon our lifestyle.

Believe me that is not what I am trying to do and I think we DO see eye to eye. I know this is unorthodox to your thinking but a chaste co-habitation could be doable within the confines of the church. Though of course I wouldn’t recommend it either. My experiences have shown me that marriage and divorce is much more than the legal technicalities. There are still unanswered questions but I AM seeking Gods will.

 

[Hellisreal]

I dont think you need opinions from me, but I am happy to pray for you and your situation.

God bless you for trying to sort it out and talk it out so you can think very hard about all this.

Remember, things that we value take time to cultivate.

I recall a person complaining how long it was taking them to get through RCIA.

Think about how you would answer that person, and you may know where I am coming from on this now.

Slow down.

In the meantime, you are in my prayers.

 

[KatholikosMercy]

I dont think you need opinions from me, but I am happy to pray for you and your situation.

God bless you for trying to sort it out and talk it out so you can think very hard about all this.

Remember, things that we value take time to cultivate.

I recall a person complaining how long it was taking them to get through RCIA.

Think about how you would answer that person, and you may know where I am coming from on this now.

Slow down.

In the meantime, you are in my prayers.

Sound advice.

Thanks for the prayers.

 

[Sheeniac]

Please pursue the annulment after the civil divorce is finalized. It is a healing process as well as a closure. Then, you will be in a single state if and when you decide to get serious with someone.

My BF is working on his annulment from his divorce 8 years ago. He didn’t plan on getting serious with anyone, but you never know what life will bring you.