Annulments here, annulments there

[EvelynEVF]

I am in the camp that wishes I had known about validity sooner than I did, because I would not have spent so much time and energy trying to be the only one holding together a marriage that may be invalid on half a dozen different grounds, including diagnosed mental illness.

Yes, please live your valid marriages openly! A great deal of my personal recovery is wrapped up in watching some of the couples that I know, to find out what a non-abusive marriage looks like. Yes, there are definitely things to keep private, but some of my friends have very graciously discussed some very, very personal things with me, including how they handle intimacy. I have also seen some of them argue and resolve the conflict, and then heard what was going on in their heads at the time. Talked through how they handle finances, how they divvy up responsibilities of all sorts, handle in-laws. It’s definitely a mentoring type relationship, even though some of them are my close friends to begin with.

Anyway, those of you who are happily, solidly, long-term marrieds, please consider taking a younger couple under your wing! I wish someone had done that for me years ago.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Happily???

Hypothetically, say you have an unhappy couple, or perhaps an obviously dysfunctional couple, although as separate individuals they may seem somewhat functional, but they don’t divorce because they are not supposed to divorce, of course. So they remain in their bizarre marriage, maybe sharing a roof, maybe not, but in actual fact their marriage was null to begin with and they could have gone their separate ways, but with the process the way it is, they will never find out that they could go their separate ways.

And, if that unhappy couple should happen to become happy at some point, I think they might talk to a priest and to out if the marriage needs to be rectified (if it was truly invalid to start, then validity might not suddenly appear like a breath of wind). Go get it fixed and the happy marriage will be even more fruitful, presuming the reason for the potential invalidity has ceased to be.

Note to Convert in 99 in case if you read this post: I am talking about an unhappy couple with known problems and issues, not vague concerns…you should just presume your marriage is valid, okay?

Thank you SO much Pug for my own personal disclaimer. :hug3: Actually I’m not that functional on my own. (I have both physical and mental illnesses that make daily life difficult.) We function better together than apart. My husband helps me physically and emotionally, I help my husband more in the spiritual department. We really are two made one. Not to sound all Jerry MacGuire-y but my husband truly completes me in every way.

 

[Pug]

Thank you SO much Pug for my own personal disclaimer. :hug3: Actually I’m not that functional on my own. (I have both physical and mental illnesses that make daily life difficult.)

:hug1:These forums have a fair number of people who struggle in that type of way. For example, we used to have a Fibromyalgia support thread around here (Fibro makes daily life difficult). I think the internet draws people who can’t get around as well as others.

We function better together than apart. My husband helps me physically and emotionally, I help my husband more in the spiritual department. We really are two made one. Not to sound all Jerry MacGuire-y but my husband truly completes me in every way.

:extrahappy:Yay!

 

[Lady_Bug]

Sorry, I could only read about 2 pages of this thread when I realized I could NOT continue.



Gee - and I wanted to marry a Catholic because I thought that the Catholic teachings on marriage were among the MOST secure.

I didn’t know it was this easy to divorce and remarry in the Church like that. This was why I liked the Catholic teachings on marriage so much.

Is it any different marrying a Catholic then? I’m feeling really discouraged here. I didn’t know that someone could divorce me, marry another and then try to say that my marriage is no longer valid simply because he wants to be with another woman.

 

[Pug]

Sorry, I could only read about 2 pages of this thread when I realized I could NOT continue.



Gee - and I wanted to marry a Catholic because I thought that the Catholic teachings on marriage were among the MOST secure.

I didn’t know it was this easy to divorce and remarry in the Church like that. This was why I liked the Catholic teachings on marriage so much.

Is it any different marrying a Catholic then? I’m feeling really discouraged here. I didn’t know that someone could divorce me, marry another and then try to say that my marriage is no longer valid simply because he wants to be with another woman.

I wish I had the perfect comforting words. The exact situation you describe has no reason to be annulled, which means he could not get an annulment. There is no annulment granted when later on, *after *they got married, then he wanted to go wander off. Annulments are about things that were true *before *the marriage took place, not new conditions that arose after the marriage. The tribunal may ask questions about what happened after the marriage, but those are evidence of what was going on beforehand, that is all.

There is nothing magic about Catholics. They, just like any other citizen of the USA, can get a divorce and remarry. Nothings stops them from doing it, save their upbringing and the like. The only thing the Church can stop them from doing is getting married again in the Catholic Church, things like that, concerning the sacraments. A Catholic man may be a sinner who will commit adultery, just like any other man (woman).

If you actually do get *married *in the Catholic sacrament of marriage, it is very secure from the standpoint of annulments. An annulment is about a marriage that, for reasons that were hidden at the time, never took place.

 

[Phemie]

Sorry, I could only read about 2 pages of this thread when I realized I could NOT continue.



Gee - and I wanted to marry a Catholic because I thought that the Catholic teachings on marriage were among the MOST secure.

I didn’t know it was this easy to divorce and remarry in the Church like that. This was why I liked the Catholic teachings on marriage so much.

Is it any different marrying a Catholic then? I’m feeling really discouraged here. I didn’t know that someone could divorce me, marry another and then try to say that my marriage is no longer valid simply because he wants to be with another woman.

Well, Hon, the Church has requirements that must be met in order for a marriage to be valid.

Some are obvious: one man/one woman; over a specific age; not related too closely; not married to someone else.

Others are not visible but demand from the bride and groom: that they are coming to this marriage freely (for example, not being forced to by mom & dad because of a pregnancy); that they intend to be faithful until death; intend to have children if possible; intend that the marriage will be for life. Also that they have the maturity to KNOW and UNDERSTAND marriage is all about.

If one of those requirements is not met the marriage may well be invalid, though that’s not known until the marriage breaks down, a divorce is obtained and the situation at the time of the wedding is examined by the Marriage Tribunal.

No, marrying a Catholic in the Catholic Church is no guarantee.

I know of a wedding that took place in my church where when the priest asked if they were going to accept children the couple replied “NO”. The priest was so surprised that he kept on with the ceremony. If ever this couple divorces and petition for an a decree of nullity, they would probably be granted one easily – especially if the priest recorded this as he was supposed to do.

 

[Pray4Life]

Sorry, I could only read about 2 pages of this thread when I realized I could NOT continue.



Gee - and I wanted to marry a Catholic because I thought that the Catholic teachings on marriage were among the MOST secure.

I didn’t know it was this easy to divorce and remarry in the Church like that. This was why I liked the Catholic teachings on marriage so much.

Is it any different marrying a Catholic then? I’m feeling really discouraged here. I didn’t know that someone could divorce me, marry another and then try to say that my marriage is no longer valid simply because he wants to be with another woman.

Well, a Catholic can go against Church teachings just like anyone of any other religion can do the same with the laws and beliefs of their own. It’s free will, we still have it, “for better or worse.” But you likely would not have anything to worry about if you both sincerely believe the teachings of the Church on marriage & sexuality at the time of the wedding and properly prepare beforehand (and no running off to Vegas ) And of course, the biggest deal breaker seems to be prior marriages. Don’t date a previously married man unless he already has an annulment from the Church. Don’t try to marry again yourself if you have been married before if you do not have a decree of nullity for any prior marriages (necessary even if you are not Catholic or not practicing your faith, if you want a valid marriage with a Catholic.) Follow the rules- if you are not a Catholic by baptism or confirmation, get that taken care of prior to the marriage or have your Catholic intended get the necessary dispensation for marrying a non-Catholic. People get into the most trouble when they get impatient or don’t think they should be bothered and marry outside the Church. A man who takes the Church’s teachings seriously will be happy to do those things and this will boost your sense of “security” quite a bit.

I’m sorry if my original post has robbed you of a sense of peace. I think annulments may be granted too often, the guidelines for grounds may be interpreted a little broadly, but I do not think they are 100% guaranteed if someone seeks one. As a previous poster said, many cases are never put through to the tribunal and these do not count in the “statistics” of how many annulments are granted. So we really do not have a clear picture of the final tally, nor do I know the percentage of granted annulments that relate to remarriage of previously married parties (I suspect, in our divorce-friendly culture, it is pretty darn high.) I don’t like that a marriage’s validity can so easily be questioned, but just because something can be challenged doesn’t mean the challenge would succeed (or even be accepted in the first place). God bless you!

 

[krch]

I’m actually looking for some direction on obtaining an annulment.

My friend (yes, my friend and not me) wants to being the annulment process. He is a US Catholic who married in Panama. Does he have to work with the Panamanian diocese or can he work with his US diocese?

Thanks.

 

[EvelynEVF]

THere are lots of options. They can file where he lives, where she lives, where they were married. . .

Do your friend a really big favor and pick up a copy of Ed Peters’ book on annulments. It’s not expensive and he’s a canon lawyer who knows it all.

 

[krch]

Thank you so much! I will.

 

[EasterJoy]

Considering the sheer number of grounds that one can receive an annulment on these days, this is pretty much mission impossible. You would have to be a veritable saint to validly marry.

Au contraire. Every marriage is valid until proven otherwise, and the Church will not investigate the marriages of those who have not obtained a civil divorce.

If you divorce-proof your marriage, then, you have preserved it from a decree of nullity, too. Besides, what good does it do to prevent a wayward spouse from divorcing you and re-marrying in the Church when you haven’t prevented him or her from leaving your marriage in the first place? It would be worthless. They would probably re-marry outside the Church, and you would still be left abandoned. So let’s be practical about this…a lasting Catholic marriage doesn’t take two saints.

I think a better question is this: how to divorce-proof your marriage? How do you live your marriage so that divorce won’t even be on the table? Assuming you have taken the trouble to refrain from marrying until you and your spouse have objectively met the requirements to fairly expect an enduring marriage, take the trouble to learn what causes marriages to fail or succeed and act accordingly.

John Gottman wrote a book titled, “The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work”. You may be wary of the Gottman Institute, because of its links with pro-abortion forces. This guy, his wife Julie Schwartz Gottman, and their colleagues at the University of Washington have identified how to see divorce coming, though, and what you need to work at in order to avoid it. If you are married and want to stay married, you would be nuts not to read their work.

But at that point, this becomes a thread for the “Family Life” forum

 

[Just_Lurking]

My friend (yes, my friend and not me) wants to being the annulment process. He is a US Catholic who married in Panama. Does he have to work with the Panamanian diocese or can he work with his US diocese?

Here is the canon law on where an annulment can be filed:

Can. 1673 In cases concerning the nullity of marriage which are not reserved to the Apostolic See, the following are competent:

1/ the tribunal of the place in which the marriage was celebrated;

2/ the tribunal of the place in which the respondent has a domicile or quasi-domicile;

3/ the tribunal of the place in which the petitioner has a domicile, provided that both parties live in the territory of the same conference of bishops and the judicial vicar of the domicile of the respondent gives consent after he has heard the respondent;

4/ the tribunal of the place in which in fact most of the proofs must be collected, provided that consent is given by the judicial vicar of the domicile of the respondent, who is first to ask if the respondent has any exception to make.

Note that the U.S. and Panema are in the territories of different conferences of bishops, so 3/ may not or may apply, depending on the current residence of the other spouse. However, if the U.S. Military Archdiocese was involved, it could be more complicated.

 

[alex55]

• An annulment does not take a long time (usually about a year).
  • Of about 80,000 annual annulments worldwide, 50,000 of them are from America
  • A person does not have to have a lot of money for an annulment (if you can’t afford the processing fees, they will be covered). cooking momma flash rocket spanish
  • People with children can get an annulment (my ex had three children from her 1st husband and she received an annulment). This does not make the children “illegitimate”.
  • Just because one of the partners has an affair, that does not automatically make them eligible to get an annulment.