Annulments should be way more difficult

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dmar198

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In Catholic circles, it’s so common for me to hear people say, “Oh, it’s so easy to get an annulment,” etc. My pastor once said that he had never heard of an annulment application being declined!

The impression that I get is that in Catholic circles today virtually all marriages can be annulled with relative ease. But only an invalid marriage can be annulled, so that would mean that either virtually all marriages are invalid :eek: or else thousands of really valid marriages are being wrongly labeled invalid by incompetent tribunals.

Does anybody else get this impression? If my analysis is correct, then all of these tribunals are heaping judgment upon themselves by carelessly telling people who are validly married that they can go and hitch up with another person – which is just licensed adultery. And this conclusion disturbs me profoundly because of the rampant evil that this system is producing – if that’s the case – because if it is, then the Tribunals must be doing so much more harm (in the way of producing so much mass adultery) than good (in the way of freeing a comparatively few people from really invalid marriages).

What do you all think of this? Am I missing something, or if I’m not, then how can this be corrected? A complete overhaul of the Tribunal system? What?

God bless you all for all you do to help me understand this!
-Dmar198
 
if it makes you feel bettr i have heard of at least one case where the annulment was not granted. The wife had 3 children with her 1st (only) husband. She wanted an annulment but her husband didnt. She wasn’t Catholic but her husband was & they had agreed, as is the tradition, to raise them Catholic, which i don’t think they really did but i don’t know that paticular detail about the case. In any case, it was interesting because the wife had begun an affair w/ another man and refused to let that relationship go… but the Church still didn’t grant the annulment and she wnet ahead & kept living in sin with the new guy and the father got custody of the children and i think he ended up living w/ someone else… yes, i recall now that that was the case… they both just shacked up w/ someone else. I have no idea why th wife wanted the divorce… other than the other guy… mabye that was the reason… .

so either way it goes… whether granted or not…

bad things happen because people don’t wnt to follow Christ…

well, No, sometimes they do -

until they come to the Cross… and then its… Hey, this is asking too &&^&%^ much…**

apparently
 
this is one reason i’m not married… i have yet to find a man who believes the exact same way i do (the way the Church teaches) about marriage…

i do NOT want to ever go through any kind of divorce or annulment or whatever you call it…

so I’lll just be alone for another 100 years… 😃
 
Perhaps it shows how a good generation of parents and god-parents have failed to teach their children about marriage, have failed to prepare those young people to enter a valid sacrament…
 
dmar198 said:
so that would mean that either virtually all marriages are invalid :eek:
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Only failed marriages are eligible for annulment, and only 10% (?) of those ever seek an annulment. Thus, the conclusion is not that virtually all marriages are invalid, but that 10% of all failed marriages are invalid.
 
dmar198 said:
Does anybody else get this impression?
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No. But, perhaps that is because I have taken a training class from the diocesan vicar general on the tribunal proces as part of my RCIA director training, and do not rely on hearsay in “Catholic circles.”

“Catholic cirlcles” often include stories of former Catholics with an ax to grind, stories where someone “heard” about Aunt Sally who got an annulment by paying $5K to the diocese or Uncle Joe who “knows for a fact” that Bob should not have been given an annulment. But the only “facts” that Uncle Joe has are his own opinions, not access to the nullity case file, not access to any of the witness testimony, and not access to the Tribunal statements. So, in fact no “facts” at all.
dmar198 said:
If my analysis is correct
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The facts I have been given lead me to believe that your analysis is not correct.
dmar198 said:
What do you all think of this? Am I missing something,
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Yes, you are missing the fact that the majority marriages declared null in any given year are made up of:

(a) non Catholics wishing to marry a Catholic or wishing to become a Catholic
(b) Catholics married outside the Church

There are thousands of Protestants who seek to enter the Catholic Church or marry a Catholic. They either have a case for nullity or in some cases a dissolution of the bond via the Pauline or Petrine Privilege.

There are thousands of Catholics who marry outside the Church.

And, then there are Catholics who legitimately have a case for nullity due to an impediment or defect in intent/consent.

It is sad that marriage has been so marred by sin that there are indeed numerous cases of invalid marriages.
dmar198 said:
or if I’m not, then how can this be corrected? A complete overhaul of the Tribunal system? What?
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There is nothing wrong with the tribunal system. The problem lies with the state to which our society has descended culturally and morally. It is shocking, but true, that people can marry with no intent to have a permanent, exclusive, lifelong marriage open to children.

The Church does not **have **to provide a Tribunal process to determine nullity. All persons could be **required **to remain single regardless of whether they have an invalid marriage. It is a great **mercy **of the Church that She investigates these situations and gives people a way to determine their canonical freedom to marry.
dmar198 said:
God bless you all for all you do to help me understand this!
-Dmar198
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I’d suggest that you get the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster. It’s an excellent book that will really help you understand the nullity process- both what it is and what it is not.
 
dmar198 said:
In Catholic circles, it’s so common for me to hear people say, “Oh, it’s so easy to get an annulment,” etc. My pastor once said that he had never heard of an annulment application being declined!
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There is also a vetting process of annulments, at least in my diocese. The only ones that make it as far as a tribunal are ones that have a resonable to serious chance of having the bond annulled.

But with so many, many Catholics doing things like having JoP weddings, or marrying outside the faith without a dispensation for cult, and such lack of form, it really is no wonder.
 
my ex best friend applied for an annullment from her 1st husband b/c she wanted to marry her BF (now husband --they’ve been dating for 5 yrs. after she left ex).

Anyway, after 2 yrs. of waiting, she was not granted her request due to lack of information so she went to her parish priest who told her to get married at the Episcopal church down the road and to come back once she’s married. He told her that some that there are some marriages which have been denied that should’ve granted nullity and the Church isn’t perfect, thus, he refers these couples who wish to remarry to a non Catholic church.

She went on to tell me that she still receives the sacraments, teaches CCD, and gives out communion w/no problem. She truly believes that God gave her a man who treats her better than her ex, is more responsible, and in no way is it wrong as God wants her to be happy.

(sigh)
 
A Decree of Nullity says that a sacramental marriage never took place in the first place. So one doesn’t petition to get an annulment as in a civil divorce. The tribunal does its research based on this.
 
Brendan said:
There is also a vetting process of annulments, at least in my diocese. The only ones that make it as far as a tribunal are ones that have a resonable to serious chance of having the bond annulled. . …
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Further, in our diocese and I think in many, if there is not enough evidence to grant the decree they will recommend that the petitioner withdraw the petition. That way it can more easily be resubmitted if additional evidence is obtained.
 
Just_Lurking said:
Only failed marriages are eligible for annulment, and only 10% (?) of those ever seek an annulment. Thus, the conclusion is not that virtually all marriages are invalid, but that 10% of all failed marriages are invalid.
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This does indeed make me feel very much better about this situation. Thank you. 🙂
1ke said:
No. But, perhaps that is because I have taken a training class from the diocesan vicar general on the tribunal proces as part of my RCIA director training, and do not rely on hearsay in “Catholic circles.”

“Catholic cirlcles” often include stories of former Catholics with an ax to grind, stories where someone “heard” about Aunt Sally who got an annulment by paying $5K to the diocese or Uncle Joe who “knows for a fact” that Bob should not have been given an annulment. But the only “facts” that Uncle Joe has are his own opinions, not access to the nullity case file, not access to any of the witness testimony, and not access to the Tribunal statements. So, in fact no “facts” at all.

The facts I have been given lead me to believe that your analysis is not correct.

Yes, you are missing the fact that the majority marriages declared null in any given year are made up of:

(a) non Catholics wishing to marry a Catholic or wishing to become a Catholic
(b) Catholics married outside the Church

There are thousands of Protestants who seek to enter the Catholic Church or marry a Catholic. They either have a case for nullity or in some cases a dissolution of the bond via the Pauline or Petrine Privilege.

There are thousands of Catholics who marry outside the Church.

And, then there are Catholics who legitimately have a case for nullity due to an impediment or defect in intent/consent.

It is sad that marriage has been so marred by sin that there are indeed numerous cases of invalid marriages.

There is nothing wrong with the tribunal system. The problem lies with the state to which our society has descended culturally and morally. It is shocking, but true, that people can marry with no intent to have a permanent, exclusive, lifelong marriage open to children.

The Church does not **have **to provide a Tribunal process to determine nullity. All persons could be **required **to remain single regardless of whether they have an invalid marriage. It is a great **mercy **of the Church that She investigates these situations and gives people a way to determine their canonical freedom to marry.

I’d suggest that you get the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster. It’s an excellent book that will really help you understand the nullity process- both what it is and what it is not.
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Wow, that is a very insightful post! I thank you for your experience with this subject and the clarity you have given me about it. God bless you!
-Dmar198
 
Many of the decrees of nullity are for non-Catholics who wish to come into the Church. In committing to their previous, non-Catholic marriage, they and/or their partner often lacked the intent of a permanent bond since non-Catholic Churches permit divorce.
 
For anyone who truly wants to know what the Church teaches about marriage and how one gets a declaration of nullity, please read:

Annulment: The Wedding That Was (How the Church Can Declare a Marriage Null)

The author is Michael Smith Foster. The ISBN is 0-8091-3844-1.

Jean
 
Even if someone is granted an annulment, I don’t get how it the marriage can just pretend like it never happened. But, the priest at my church said that the annulments are very difficult to get , and usually many people don’t get it. And, it takes about 2-3 years. I mean, I guess in certain situations… like if the woman did not want to give her husband children, etc. I guess annulments should be OK. It just confuses me how it can just pretend like it never happened, because it did! And, they had sex… so that means that the next person they marry they will have sex with also.Isn;t that wrong?
 
HNA444 said:
Even if someone is granted an annulment, I don’t get how it the marriage can just pretend like it never happened.
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Getting an annulment does not mean it never happened.

Marriages annulled under the Catholic Church are considered as ab initio, meaning that the marriage was invalid from the beginning.

Peace,

Jean
 
Just_Lurking said:
Only failed marriages are eligible for annulment, and only 10% (?) of those ever seek an annulment. Thus, the conclusion is not that virtually all marriages are invalid, but that 10% of all failed marriages are invalid.
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not true… only invalid marriages are … going to get annulled…

failed marriage is a broad term that can mean absolutely anything…
 
HNA444 said:
Even if someone is granted an annulment, I don’t get how it the marriage can just pretend like it never happened. But, the priest at my church said that the annulments are very difficult to get , and usually many people don’t get it. And, it takes about 2-3 years. I mean, I guess in certain situations… like if the woman did not want to give her husband children, etc. I guess annulments should be OK. It just confuses me how it can just pretend like it never happened, because it did! And, they had sex… so that means that the next person they marry they will have sex with also.Isn;t that wrong?
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people have sex for all kinds of "off " reasons… heat of the moment, etc…

pepole get married for dumb reasons also… (some get married because they started having sex… and are attached to each other because of that…)…

They think they Love someone but then… well, time proves they didn’t… time and other factors…

one should not be held to such dumb mistakes… unless one got married in Church… Holy matrimony is a different thing… Usually when a person marries someone in the eyes of God, in a Church… with witnesses…it can be presumed that they are very serious… and God definitely is serious…

and i gues this is the way the RCC feels about it… since they honor marriages in churches, even churches not their own… (i don’t include JW weddings or Mormon ones, which the Church doesn’t see as Christian).
 
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