Annulments/support group

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šŸ‘ this is my first time posting a question. I have been to other sights and never get an answer. So here goes. When I was 19, I married a catholic in a Catholic Church. We are now divorced. I want to get an anullment, I was reading canon law and it states that our marriage was never valid (I was an unbaptized, non Christian at the tome of marriage). Do I still need an anullment if my marriage was never valid? The reason I want an anullment is I want to join the Catholic Church.
 
Hi The Paw
Fantastic the God is calling you to full communion with the church. My understanding but I think Dan might be able to come back to you with a better reply is that whilst your marriage was not a sacrament it could be valid. If you join the church without an annulment you would then have a sacramental marriage so it is important to get this sorted. You may have other grounds for an annulment. Have you spoken to your local priest about all this? That’s a good place to start. God bless Rose
 
If two Protestants merely have a civic wedding, i.e. not in any church, is that a valid reason for an annulment?
Hello,

That is no reason at all for the Catholic Church to question the validity of such a marriage. Protestants (as far as the Catholic Church is concerned) are required to follow civil law. So, if civil law considers them to be married, so would the Church.

Dan
 
šŸ‘ this is my first time posting a question. I have been to other sights and never get an answer. So here goes. When I was 19, I married a catholic in a Catholic Church. We are now divorced. I want to get an anullment, I was reading canon law and it states that our marriage was never valid (I was an unbaptized, non Christian at the tome of marriage). Do I still need an anullment if my marriage was never valid? The reason I want an anullment is I want to join the Catholic Church.
Hello,

Since you married ā€œin the Churchā€ then I would think that you (your Catholic husband, actually) received a ā€œdispensationā€ to be married even though you were not baptized. If that dispensation was granted, then the fact that you were not baptized doesn’t matter as far as validity of the marriage is concerned.

Do you have reason to think that there was no such dispensation? There would be a record of it being granted at the diocesan offices as well as in the parish prenuptial file.

Are you now in a second (civil) marriage?

Dan
 
Hello,

That is no reason at all for the Catholic Church to question the validity of such a marriage. Protestants (as far as the Catholic Church is concerned) are required to follow civil law. So, if civil law considers them to be married, so would the Church.

Dan
Thanks. What about an Orthodox and a Protestant? Does the Orthodox spouse need a dispensation?
 
Thanks. What about an Orthodox and a Protestant? Does the Orthodox spouse need a dispensation?
In the view of the Catholic Church, all Orthodox must have the priestly blessing in order to be in a valid marriage. I don’t know if the Orthodox ever grant a dispensation from this requirement: I think not. When it is shown that the required, priestly blessing is lacking, the Catholic Church would consider that marriage to be invalid.

Dan
 
Hi everyone, I had my first marriage annulled in 2008. I am remarried in the Church and all is well. This question is for a friend…

At a neighborhood gathering this weekend, I had a discussion with a friend/neighbor who is in an ā€˜invalid’ marriage. Her first marriage produced a child, but ended in divorce and an annulment wasn’t pursued. Based on my own experience with the process, I was encouraging her to begin the process so she could have her second marriage validated and so that her (and her Catholic husband) could get back ā€œon trackā€ sacramentally.

Her argument against was this: she has sole custody of her child from the first marriage and her first husband is essentially out of their lives–apparently, there was some abuse involved. As you’d expect, she and her daughter are quite content to have him stay away. She’s afraid that if she pursues an annulment, and her first husband is contacted for his response, it will ā€œstir things upā€ and she doesn’t really want to give him the opportunity to hold anything over her head.

I informed her that there was a time limit for the spouse’s response, but she was still understandably nervous about opening a door for him to have any impact on their lives. Are there circumstances where it is possible to get an annulment without giving the spouse an opportunity to respond? Thanks!
 
…Are there circumstances where it is possible to get an annulment without giving the spouse an opportunity to respond? Thanks!
Hello,

No, it wouldn’t work that way. Some measures can be taken to limit the amount of information given to the other Party (such as not communicating a current address or the strategic use of Latin phrases) but the right of response, itself, has to remain intact.

In the vast majority of cases, Respondent Parties have no interest in the nullity process and it really doesn’t matter to them. That’s not to say that, in this particular situation, the Respondent won’t care but the odds are against it.

Dan
 
Thanks Dan!

That’s what I suspected. To this day, I still have no idea whether my own spouse submitted a response, so I’ll resume my efforts with my neighbor with emphasis on the discretion that can be achieved by withholding addresses and personal details…

Really appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut!
 
Thanks Dan!

That’s what I suspected. To this day, I still have no idea whether my own spouse submitted a response, so I’ll resume my efforts with my neighbor with emphasis on the discretion that can be achieved by withholding addresses and personal details…

Really appreciate your (name removed by moderator)ut!
You can also assure her that she will not be expected to contact her ex directly - the tribunal can handle all communications with him. If there are police reports she may be able to submit them as evidence - her pastor can advise her more completely.
 
šŸ‘ this is my first time posting a question. I have been to other sights and never get an answer. So here goes. When I was 19, I married a catholic in a Catholic Church. We are now divorced. I want to get an anullment, I was reading canon law and it states that our marriage was never valid (I was an unbaptized, non Christian at the tome of marriage). Do I still need an anullment if my marriage was never valid? The reason I want an anullment is I want to join the Catholic Church.
My understanding is that the marriage would be vaild, but not sacramental and therefore could be dissolved.
 
My understanding is that the marriage would be vaild, but not sacramental and therefore could be dissolved.
Hello,

That is true–marriages in which one party is baptized at the time of the wedding while the other remains unbaptized until the present time can be dissolved by the Holy Father.

However, pursuing such a dissolution is not always the most practical course of action.

Dan
 
My understanding is that the marriage would be vaild, but not sacramental and therefore could be dissolved.
Theoretically, yes, it could, but that would be contingent upon a couple of different factors. (Dan, please correct me if I’m wrong here.)

Since one party was baptized and the other was not, the petitioner would have to ask for the Petrine Privilege, or the ā€œfavour of the faithā€. My understanding is that one of the requirements is that the baptized party cannot be the primary cause of the marriage breakdown. I think someone also mentioned on another thread that the ā€œfavour of the faithā€ is rarely used because it tends to take a long time to get a response. Rather, the tribunal will recommend a petition for a declaration of nullity.
 
Theoretically, yes, it could, but that would be contingent upon a couple of different factors. (Dan, please correct me if I’m wrong here.)

Since one party was baptized and the other was not, the petitioner would have to ask for the Petrine Privilege, or the ā€œfavour of the faithā€. My understanding is that one of the requirements is that the baptized party cannot be the primary cause of the marriage breakdown. I think someone also mentioned on another thread that the ā€œfavour of the faithā€ is rarely used because it tends to take a long time to get a response. Rather, the tribunal will recommend a petition for a declaration of nullity.
You’re correct. … Yes, it can take several months to receive a response from the Holy See but I think the main reason why this process is not used as often as it could be is that it is unfamiliar and somewhat intimidating.

Dan
 
Ha. ā€œI wrote it in latinā€¦ā€ I’m sure that scored some points.

Anyway, no, I don’t expect you to know the reasoning at this time. This is a continuing difficulty with the Rota–the use of Latin. I want them to use Latin but I wish they would devote time to providing translations to the Parties … or at least a summary.

Dan
I thought you would like to know despite my previous post My advocate then asked for a death certificate which I provided and i received a letter from the diocese to say the case had been concluded. So that as they say is that. The church tells us the present situation in a marriage has no bearing on its validity what is important is the situation when the marriage ceremony took place except it seems when one of the members has died.
 
I finally received my decision and it was affirmative that a sacramental marriage did not take place.

The process is long and, in my diocese at least, very cold and impersonal. I felt like I was treated like a number instead of a person. I think the Tribunal needs to remember that even though they may have 1000 cases in front of them, behind each of those cases is a human being who deserves to be treated with dignity and respect. I did not feel I was treated that way at all.

I realize it takes time, and I want them to take all the time they need to make a just decision, but I can also see how the way petitioners are treated needs some major improvement.

To those of you going through the process, hang in there and don’t get discouraged. I hope you are not treated the way I was, but if you are, please remember you ARE a person and God loves you very much (the Tribunal makes it very hard to remember that). Have courage and don’t give up. God bless you all
 
So glad for you and your encouraging words are so helpful to those on the journey.
God Bless
Rose
 
I don’t know if people know it or not but people who are NOT Catholic often seek annulments from the Catholic Church (even when neither party was Catholic).
People will do this so that if they later meet a Catholic and fall in love and want to
get married in the church then they know ahead of time that they can marry a Catholic.
 
I thought you would like to know despite my previous post My advocate then asked for a death certificate which I provided and i received a letter from the diocese to say the case had been concluded. So that as they say is that. The church tells us the present situation in a marriage has no bearing on its validity what is important is the situation when the marriage ceremony took place except it seems when one of the members has died.
Well, I’m not sure that’s completely true. For example, at the council of Trent … there was a reference to laws like degrees of Sanguinity which can be modified by the church. At the council, the church infallibly decreed that it can make a law which dissolves marriages. (Not preventing them from happening, but dissolving them…!)

Can. 4. If anyone says that the Church cannot establish impediments dissolving marriage,[10] or that she has erred in establishing them, let him be anathema.

There’s a handful of subtle points about what the church can do and can’t do (and which men can NEVER do) that I’ve never had satisfactorily explained. In my annulment petition, this was one of the questions I brought up … for I refused to have the vows ā€œuntil death do us partā€ at our ceremony. Rather, we said the vows ā€œI will love you and honor you all the days of my life.ā€ One of the reasons I was bothered by the ā€œdeathā€ clause is as follows:

Matthew 22:30
Jesus said to them in reply, ā€œYou are misled because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven.

Or, Again, Elucidated in Luke:
Jesus said to them, ā€œThe children of this age marry and are given in marriage; 35but those who are deemed worthy to attain to the coming age and to the resurrection of the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage. 36They can no longer die, for they are like angels; and they are the children of God because they are the ones who will rise.* 37That the dead will rise even Moses made known in the passage about the bush, when he called ā€˜Lord’ the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob;r 38and he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.ā€s

There are a few subtle points in the passage that I’m not entirely certain of, but Jesus clearly affirms that marriage is dissolved for all the spouses which died before the day of the resurrection. However, if physical death were the ONLY way for a holy marriage to be separated… then the prophecies of St. Paul and Jesus regarding the end of the world would make marriage into a sin (and a lie of the creed … for Jesus will judge the living and the dead); Consider: Marriage is not a sin; and in Heaven … we are ALL married for heaven itself is a marriage. The marriage feast of the Lamb … where we become one flesh with Jesus, the Christ, in communion (not sexual union.)

Notice what Paul says of the last day and especially about NOT dying:

usccb.org/bible/1corinthians/15:51

Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,z 52in an instant, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.a 53For that which is corruptible must clothe itself with incorruptibility, and that which is mortal must clothe itself with immortality

I always recall (when meditating about death) that there will be no signs that one can identify for the end of the world (as opposed to the end of Jerusalem, which did have signs).

Jesus warned us: ā€œAs to the exact day or hour, no one knows it, neither the angels in heaven nor even the Son, but only the Father. Be constantly on the watch!ā€ (Mk 13:32-33)."

I don’t see how to avoid the very strong implication: There will be holy marriages lasting until the very last day. This is especially true because Paul told us without reservation that he desired women to marry and bear children.

Therefore some holy marriages won’t end in death. But if they aren’t dissolved, then the state of un-marriedness that Jesus says exists in heaven (excepting marriage to himself) can’t be fulfilled for all Christians.

I think the only resolution that makes sense … is that man does not have the right to dissolve marriages, but Jesus (as figure of God) does. For this reason, let not man separate what God has joined … but in the person of Jesus; that is a different matter. Marriage is an issue of law and subject to a judge.
 
Hi Dan.
It’s been another year. šŸ™‚
At least my petition has finally been assigned to a tribunal judge, defender, etc.
I know you don’t agree with what my tribunal has been doing…

It’s been a weird year. I’ve got a general canon law question: My ex-wife talked to a priest and told him that I was forcing my daughter to receive communion. In front of all my kids, on the speaker phone, the priest said I was no longer allowed to receive communion. Now my ex-wife is suing me in court for interfering with ā€œherā€ right to arrange all religious events even though our parenting plan explicitly says she isn’t allowed to violate the plan for religious purposes. The really sad part is that it’s illegal for my ex-wife to have even held the conversation with the priest in front of my kids … but now I’ve got scandal on my hands. My daughter even left a voice message for the priest, and told him that she asked to go to communion. She explained the situation; but the priest won’t write back and clear up the scandal even to say that I can go.

This is the third priest my wife has poisoned against me., The first asked me to leave the Maronite rite after telling me he was concerned my ex would sue. The second held a first communion ceremony that excluded all my family, and my daughter’s friends. My ex-wife had a first communion ceremony without even one of my daughter’s friends present. The third priest called my ex-wife, and then essentially told her and my kids that I was ex-communicated from his church for something I didn’t do. NOT ONE of these priests talked to me first. They all believe my ex wife, and then won’t repair the damage once they’ve been shown to be very wrong.

The Marionite priest gave me his word as a priest that he didn’t call her and start the fight … but now in court my ex-wife is preparing to claim he did. The accusation is in writing in a letter she wrote him the day before he yelled at me to leave his church.

I wrote the bishop’s office … but I’ve gotten silence. The priest who said I can’t have communion won’t even write back to me to clarify my status. The priest who held the first communion ceremony is not even my daughter’s legal pastor according to the head of the archdiocese tribunal. So … I’ve been patiently waiting for 9 months to go to communion and the archdiocese is frozen. If I go to communion, my daughter will be scandalized further because I’m disobeying authority figures. But my easter duty is coming up for the year. I am hesitant to sue … but this is getting ridiculous. One of my sons was abused by my ex, the archdiocese has sworn testimony from witnesses about it, and now I’ve got court costs because she has filed against me. My attorney said she is flat going to loose, but that’s little consolation when she keeps destroying mine and the children’s lives.

My understanding is that I am still considered the lawful father and husband as far as the church holds until the annulment is in place. The encyclical on chaste marriage re-iterates that church teaching is that the father (eg: ā€œnot the Husbandā€) has primacy over the children … unless the father abdicates. I’ve never shirked my duty … so I don’t see why the church allows priests to take divorce as a reason to elevate my wife above me with respect to the kids. They don’t have the right to do what they do.

Is there no real chain of authority that I can ask for relief from within the church?
Can I write someone at the Vatican?

What would you do?
 
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