Annulments/support group

[Deefraz]

Could you further explain your situation? The way it’s worded I can’t tell if you are asking in theory or specifically have a situation of your own.

There is always the option of contacting a canon lawyer and of appeal, but without specifics that’s the best I got for you.

Sure, I will try to be brief. This is the situation in my boyfriend’s annulment case. He was originally advised by his pastor not to seek annulment. The pastor told him he basically didn’t believe in annulments and told him unless he was looking to get married he should not try (I did not know him at the time). Five years later his attempt was poorly advised by a deacon in the same parish, and the petition would have resulted in a negative response from the tribunal. He withdrew. We are under the direction of my parish pastor currently, and because of lack of witnesses and the initial bitter rebuttal of his ex-wife, he was advised the second petition would result in a negative response. The petition has been moved to another diocese in hopes that the second petition could be reviewed without the history of the first filing.
My pastor has advised that a canon lawyer could potentially get a positive ruling, but he does not think it would be upheld in the appellate process because of lack of witnesses. We are at a loss. I strongly feel his petition is honest and the first marriage was invalid. As with any legal process, I understand they are looking for evidence and agreement of witnesses. Because of location when they were dating/married and the privacy they kept while married, in addition to the manipulative responses of the ex-spouse, it is not to be found. It becomes a war of he said, she said. I can remove myself from this situation enough to say if for a moment I thought it was a valid marriage I would encourage him to do what was needed to live with it for the rest of his life. Both of us and my pastor feel this strongly about it. I am hoping the new tribunal will be able to look objectively at the second petition and agree with the nullity. Otherwise I am losing hope that this situation will come to a positive conclusion.

 

[Nic1099]

I’m delighted that I have found this support group.

I am currently going through the annulment procedure with a very difficult spouse. Over a month ago, I received an affirmative decision at First Instance level. My spouse is now appealing this decision at Second Instance with the National Marriage Appeals Tribunal. I was not surprised at the appeal but was surprised that he didn’t choose the Roman Rota as the Court of Second Instance.

What are the chances of the Court of Second Instance upholding the lower court’s decision? I can’t find any statistics on it for Ireland. In the event that I receive a second affirmative decision, can my spouse appeal after that and on what grounds? Does new evidence have to be brought forward in order for the Roman Rota to accept the appeal or can he just simply disagree with the decision of the two courts?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[Deltadeliquent]

My husband was married three times.
First marriage in the C of E, both baptised. Divorced.
Second and third, civil wedding. No idea if the wives were baptised. Divorced, divorced.
Then, he marries me, civil wedding. I’m Catholic. Then…
Wife number one dies.

Do the two intervening marriages have to be looked at, or are they not valid because he was still married to the first, until she died, of course.

Is our marriage not valid since wife number one was still alive when we married, civilly?

In other words, If we prove his first wife is dead, can we be convalided without looking at the other two? Maybe we need a marriage, not a convalidation?

 

[MJJean]

Sure, I will try to be brief. This is the situation in my boyfriend’s annulment case. He was originally advised by his pastor not to seek annulment. The pastor told him he basically didn’t believe in annulments and told him unless he was looking to get married he should not try (I did not know him at the time). Five years later his attempt was poorly advised by a deacon in the same parish, and the petition would have resulted in a negative response from the tribunal. He withdrew. We are under the direction of my parish pastor currently, and because of lack of witnesses and the initial bitter rebuttal of his ex-wife, he was advised the second petition would result in a negative response. The petition has been moved to another diocese in hopes that the second petition could be reviewed without the history of the first filing.
My pastor has advised that a canon lawyer could potentially get a positive ruling, but he does not think it would be upheld in the appellate process because of lack of witnesses. We are at a loss. I strongly feel his petition is honest and the first marriage was invalid. As with any legal process, I understand they are looking for evidence and agreement of witnesses. Because of location when they were dating/married and the privacy they kept while married, in addition to the manipulative responses of the ex-spouse, it is not to be found. It becomes a war of he said, she said. I can remove myself from this situation enough to say if for a moment I thought it was a valid marriage I would encourage him to do what was needed to live with it for the rest of his life. Both of us and my pastor feel this strongly about it. I am hoping the new tribunal will be able to look objectively at the second petition and agree with the nullity. Otherwise I am losing hope that this situation will come to a positive conclusion.

Considering the circumstances, I’d say work with a canon lawyer. I’m not an expert, but I do know that the Tribunal here can and will request psychiatric reports on one or both parties. Perhaps this would help prove your BF’s case. If the ex is simply being vengeful and manipulative, perhaps a psychiatrist would pick up on it and include that in their report.

As far as witnesses, I had a hard time with mine, too. I was married 20 years ago, some of the best witnesses have passed away or simply cannot be found. I had the required number here agree to serve as witnesses, but 2 of them backed out after the paperwork was sent. So, I spoke to my priest and he said that this is not uncommon and that the Tribunal is sometimes willing to accept character witnesses in those circumstances. My case was held up waiting for the 2 to respond, so I called the Tribunal offices and requested those witnesses be removed from the list. I now have 3 witness statements turned in and am awaiting the judges decision. If he thinks the 3 have offered enough testimony to render a decision, my case will move forward. If not, I will be notified and have to use “alternate means” (psychiatrist and/or character references) to have my case judged.

So, see if you can get in touch with more witnesses. Sometimes we think we are hiding our marital problems, but people pick up on them anyway. If not, ask if psych evals and/or character references would work. Also, see if anyone from the ex’s side would be willing to help. She may have spoken to friends or family members at the time without him knowing and one of those might be willing to serve as witness.

I’m delighted that I have found this support group.

I am currently going through the annulment procedure with a very difficult spouse. Over a month ago, I received an affirmative decision at First Instance level. My spouse is now appealing this decision at Second Instance with the National Marriage Appeals Tribunal. I was not surprised at the appeal but was surprised that he didn’t choose the Roman Rota as the Court of Second Instance.

What are the chances of the Court of Second Instance upholding the lower court’s decision? I can’t find any statistics on it for Ireland. In the event that I receive a second affirmative decision, can my spouse appeal after that and on what grounds? Does new evidence have to be brought forward in order for the Roman Rota to accept the appeal or can he just simply disagree with the decision of the two courts?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

I have no information for you, but I’ll pray for the Church to make the correct determination.

My husband was married three times.
First marriage in the C of E, both baptised. Divorced.
Second and third, civil wedding. No idea if the wives were baptised. Divorced, divorced.
Then, he marries me, civil wedding. I’m Catholic. Then…
Wife number one dies.

Do the two intervening marriages have to be looked at, or are they not valid because he was still married to the first, until she died, of course.

Is our marriage not valid since wife number one was still alive when we married, civilly?

In other words, If we prove his first wife is dead, can we be convalided without looking at the other two? Maybe we need a marriage, not a convalidation?

Talk to your pastor, a canon lawyer, or the local Tribunal. As far as I understand, each marriage must be dealt with individually.It could be a long form case, it could be administrative paperwork.

You are a Catholic and bound to marry within the Church or receive dispensation. Because you married civilly without dispensation you are not validly married. Your husbands previous marriages must be nullified before you can have a convalidation (which is a marriage ceremony).

 

[Deefraz]

Considering the circumstances, I’d say work with a canon lawyer. I’m not an expert, but I do know that the Tribunal here can and will request psychiatric reports on one or both parties. Perhaps this would help prove your BF’s case. If the ex is simply being vengeful and manipulative, perhaps a psychiatrist would pick up on it and include that in their report.

As far as witnesses, I had a hard time with mine, too. I was married 20 years ago, some of the best witnesses have passed away or simply cannot be found. I had the required number here agree to serve as witnesses, but 2 of them backed out after the paperwork was sent. So, I spoke to my priest and he said that this is not uncommon and that the Tribunal is sometimes willing to accept character witnesses in those circumstances. My case was held up waiting for the 2 to respond, so I called the Tribunal offices and requested those witnesses be removed from the list. I now have 3 witness statements turned in and am awaiting the judges decision. If he thinks the 3 have offered enough testimony to render a decision, my case will move forward. If not, I will be notified and have to use “alternate means” (psychiatrist and/or character references) to have my case judged.

So, see if you can get in touch with more witnesses. Sometimes we think we are hiding our marital problems, but people pick up on them anyway. If not, ask if psych evals and/or character references would work. Also, see if anyone from the ex’s side would be willing to help. She may have spoken to friends or family members at the time without him knowing and one of those might be willing to serve as witness.

Thanks so much for your advice and encouragement. Because his ex-wife refused in-depth counseling or diagnosis while married, the psych evaluation has been a negative aspect of the process. Based on what was written and the rebuttal, the psych eval has indicated there’s no problem with anyone’s mental health. It’s like the perfect storm. This is what caused part of the issue in the first petition. There were definitely more grounds than mental health, yet this was the chosen path allowed by the deacon. In ignorance my boyfriend followed his guidance in preparing a petition that my pastor says should never have gone for deliberation. With no formal diagnosis and an ex-spouse who was livid after reading the petition, she basically wrote whatever was needed to rebutt and deny any problems with mental health. She is not Catholic and does not understand what the sacrament means, although she would tell you she does. She thinks their grown daughter will be considered illegitimate if the nullity was granted. She follows no faith of her own. We are prayerfully hoping the second petition (which avoids the mental health grounds altogether) will be looked at with fresh perspective at the other diocese.

I am not familiar with character witnesses but will inquire with my pastor. We’re in a holding pattern currently until he hears from the new diocese about the path they are taking with the petition. We’re unsure if new questionnaires will be sent out, or if they are using the information originally provided. Going on 3 years in the relationship, with more than 2 years in the annulment process. I’m in my mid 40’s and he in his late 50’s. It is strengthening to hear of others’ struggle and I do have hope our Lord knows what He is doing. My best wishes and ongoing prayers to everyone on their journey of faith, particularly in this very difficult area of work within the church.

 

[Catholic_775]

** A Catholic totally destroys the protestant arguments in this recent Youtube debate. Here is the link…

youtube.com/watch?v=Qn1vC1Ez-OI **

 

[MJJean]

Thanks so much for your advice and encouragement. Because his ex-wife refused in-depth counseling or diagnosis while married, the psych evaluation has been a negative aspect of the process. Based on what was written and the rebuttal, the psych eval has indicated there’s no problem with anyone’s mental health. It’s like the perfect storm. This is what caused part of the issue in the first petition. There were definitely more grounds than mental health, yet this was the chosen path allowed by the deacon. In ignorance my boyfriend followed his guidance in preparing a petition that my pastor says should never have gone for deliberation. With no formal diagnosis and an ex-spouse who was livid after reading the petition, she basically wrote whatever was needed to rebutt and deny any problems with mental health. She is not Catholic and does not understand what the sacrament means, although she would tell you she does. She thinks their grown daughter will be considered illegitimate if the nullity was granted. She follows no faith of her own. We are prayerfully hoping the second petition (which avoids the mental health grounds altogether) will be looked at with fresh perspective at the other diocese.

I am not familiar with character witnesses but will inquire with my pastor. We’re in a holding pattern currently until he hears from the new diocese about the path they are taking with the petition. We’re unsure if new questionnaires will be sent out, or if they are using the information originally provided. Going on 3 years in the relationship, with more than 2 years in the annulment process. I’m in my mid 40’s and he in his late 50’s. It is strengthening to hear of others’ struggle and I do have hope our Lord knows what He is doing. My best wishes and ongoing prayers to everyone on their journey of faith, particularly in this very difficult area of work within the church.

You’re very welcome. I only applied in June, so I haven’t been at it nearly as long as you have. I understand how upsetting it must be to have such a difficult case to deal with and to wonder if it will ever be over. 7 months seems like forever. I can imagine what 2 years must feel like.

I got lucky, my ex is a Pagan (also has never been baptized) and wants nothing to do with the Church. So, when his paperwork was sent he simply responded that he did not wish to participate in the process and that was the end of it for him. He could chosen to be manipulative and vengeful, but that would have been too much effort for him

I was only given the possibility of using character references if I couldn’t round up enough witness testimony, so that and suggestions of new possible witnesses would only help you if the Tribunal decides there isn’t enough testimony or if your Procurator-Advocate thinks further testimony would help the case and should be added.

Any chance of educating the wife on nullity? Legitimacy is a legal matter and has nothing to do with the Church. If I remember, that was actually specifically stated in the packets sent out to myself, my ex, and the witnesses. If the diocese hasn’t explained nullity to her there are plenty of internet sources that she could read and quite a few books on the subject that make it very clear legitimacy of children born is not effected in any way.

I’m nearing 40 and so is my husband. We were married civilly 11 years ago and he returned to the Church spring 2013. I decided to convert after attending my first mass. So, he cannot licitly receive the Eucharist and I cannot be received fully into the Church until the annulment is granted and we convalidate our marriage. It’s like being in limbo. Every week I attend RCIA and mass and have to watch nearly everyone receive while I long for the Eucharist and am prohibited because of a mistake I made as a stupid teenager. I usually spend that time alone in the pew praying for safety, closeness, and growing faith understanding for my family and a speedy annulment.

 

[Nic1099]

Thank you for your prayers. They are very much appreciated.

Considering there are very few (if any) statistics on the Irish Church, does anyone have any information generally on how the Court of Second Instance works, from anywhere in the world? My case is going forward for another hearing, not just a confirmation. Does this mean that the Respondent has appealed the initial decision or is this standard procedure? I have not been informed of any appeal but that does not in itself exclude the possibility. In my letter from the Court of First Instance, the letter stated that the affirmative decision would be sent for review. Is a hearing another name for a review?

Generally in nullity cases, how often does the Appellate Court overturn the initial decision and what are the grounds?*

 

[Tax_Collector14]

Hi, everybody, I’m also fairly new to the forum, longtime Catholic Answers fan.

I am currently in a tough spot marriage-wise and likely headed for divorce. To sum up the situation in a nutshell: my girlfriend got pregnant when we were both in college and she was from Mexico and threatened to either abort or take the baby and run back…she basically would have been unable to stay here unless I married her civilly, which I did, shotgun-style, literally on my lunchbreak from work on a Friday.

Fast-forward several months, we have the baby, are being pressured by faithful Catholic family members to get married in the Church…we had discussed it, I had always wanted to provide such an environment for my wife and kids and had no intention of dating as a single Dad, nor was I able to afford a 2nd residence. So, bottom line, one morning of abbreviated pre-cana and an engaged-encounter retreat and we were fast-tracked.

My question is this: I have no intention of divorcing unless I know that the annulment will be granted. We currently have 3 young ladies who are the love of my life and I want to put them through as little pain as possible…so what I’m trying to determine is whether to go through all of this or not, especially if the annulment request will not be granted in the long run. Why go through the divorce and the messiness of it only to be told to stay put?

While I feel my case is strong and valid, I have heard that you need witnesses, that your (ex)spouse needs to sign off on it…I have very few witnesses outside of my parents and sisters since I’ve always tried to fight on silently and keep discretion about all of our struggles. That said, I can attest to being emotionally unfaithful to my spouse on more than one occasion. Any thoughts would be very helpful!

 

[dans0622]

… Considering there are very few (if any) statistics on the Irish Church, does anyone have any information generally on how the Court of Second Instance works, from anywhere in the world? My case is going forward for another hearing, not just a confirmation. Does this mean that the Respondent has appealed the initial decision or is this standard procedure? I have not been informed of any appeal but that does not in itself exclude the possibility. In my letter from the Court of First Instance, the letter stated that the affirmative decision would be sent for review. Is a hearing another name for a review?

Generally in nullity cases, how often does the Appellate Court overturn the initial decision and what are the grounds?

Hello,

I am a bit uncertain what is happening with your case, since you say that the letter said the decision would be “reviewed” but you also say the case is going through “another hearing, not just a confirmation.” Did you receive another letter telling you about this new “hearing”? If so, then the case is being re-tried, essentially.

Every first instance, affirmative is “reviewed” by the second instance court. That court always reads the Acts of the case (meaning the testimony, sentence, and procedure) and then decides whether or not to: 1) admit the case to an ordinary examination–basically repeating what happened in the first instance, procedurally, but usually not taking as long since there is not as much evidence that needs to be collected–or 2) immediately ratify the first instance decision, thereby ending the entire process.

It does not take an appeal for the case to be submitted to an ordinary examination in second instance.

It is uncommon for a second instance court to overturn the first instance court’s decision, whatever it may have been. Most of the time, the affirmative decision is ratified. Obviously, if your case has been admitted to an ordinary examination, the chances are higher for a contrary decision. Still, though, the majority of second instance, ordinary examinations end with the same decision as in first instance. These are general trends. I don’t know if they will correspond to your specific situation.

Dan

 

[dans0622]

…While I feel my case is strong and valid, I have heard that you need witnesses, that your (ex)spouse needs to sign off on it…I have very few witnesses outside of my parents and sisters since I’ve always tried to fight on silently and keep discretion about all of our struggles. That said, I can attest to being emotionally unfaithful to my spouse on more than one occasion. Any thoughts would be very helpful!

Hello,

I’ll just focus on this last part, to correct a couple apparent misperceptions. First, the possible witnesses you mentioned are typical (i.e., parents, siblings). Second, the other Party does not need “to sign off on it.” The other Party does not need to do anything. The other Party must be informed of the nullity case being initiated and also receive at least two other notices about the progress of the case. No response is required. Third, I don’t think “emotional infidelity” is all that important. What you mentioned about the circumstances surrounding the civil union and marriage in the Church is more relevant.

All that being said, I hope and pray that you can maintain/repair your marriage…

Dan

 

[Tax_Collector14]

Thank you kindly! So nice to be able to come to a forum for support…along the lines of the divorce first or annul first question…I realize of course my approach is probably out of step with that of most…it seems to me that most going through the annulment process already are divorced…once again, in this case, I’m looking to potentially annul first and divorce afterwards if possible, simply to inflict the least amount of damage on my family in the event that the tribunal rejects my request for nullity.

Also, anybody up on how long the process typically takes?

 

[MJJean]

Hi, everybody, I’m also fairly new to the forum, longtime Catholic Answers fan.

I am currently in a tough spot marriage-wise and likely headed for divorce. To sum up the situation in a nutshell: my girlfriend got pregnant when we were both in college and she was from Mexico and threatened to either abort or take the baby and run back…she basically would have been unable to stay here unless I married her civilly, which I did, shotgun-style, literally on my lunchbreak from work on a Friday.

Fast-forward several months, we have the baby, are being pressured by faithful Catholic family members to get married in the Church…we had discussed it, I had always wanted to provide such an environment for my wife and kids and had no intention of dating as a single Dad, nor was I able to afford a 2nd residence. So, bottom line, one morning of abbreviated pre-cana and an engaged-encounter retreat and we were fast-tracked.

My question is this: I have no intention of divorcing unless I know that the annulment will be granted.
While I feel my case is strong and valid, I have heard that you need witnesses, that your (ex)spouse needs to sign off on it…I have very few witnesses outside of my parents and sisters That said, I can attest to being emotionally unfaithful to my spouse on more than one occasion. Any thoughts would be very helpful!

One of the requirements for a valid marriage is that the parties freely consent to the marriage. Considering the circumstances of the civil ceremony and convalidation, I’d say you could argue your ability to freely consent was impaired.

No one can guarantee an annulment will be granted, but you could speak to your pastor and/or a canon lawyer (you can find one through the local Tribunal) and explain your situation. The canon lawyer and/or priest can give you an idea of your chances, but they cannot make any guarantees.

In our diocese we are required to have 5 witnesses who knew both parties before and during their early marriage. The minimum they will accept is 3. If there are less than the required 3 the Tribunal will accept alternate testimony such as psychologist evaluations and character witnesses. This varies by diocese, as far as I understand, so speak to your own local Tribunal or the canon lawyer about their requirements. Family members are allowed to act as witnesses.

No, your former spouse does not have to consent or participate at all. The Tribunal will send notification of the proceedings and offer the ex spouse a chance to participate in the process, but it is not required.

As far as I understand, a civil divorce must be final for at least 6 months before you can apply for an annulment.

Infidelity, physical or emotional, does NOT make a valid marriage invalid. A marriage is validly entered into at the time of the ceremony and nothing that happens after that point can make the marriage invalid. What happens after can be used as supporting evidence that there was some defect at the time of the ceremony, however.

I’m looking to potentially annul first and divorce afterwards if possible, simply to inflict the least amount of damage on my family in the event that the tribunal rejects my request for nullity.

Also, anybody up on how long the process typically takes?

Again, the divorce has to be final before you can apply for an annulment. However, there is nothing stopping you from speaking with your priest and a canon lawyer to see if they believe that the marriage was invalid and if they believe you have a strong case for invalidity.

How long an annulment takes really depends. Part of it is the Tribunal and part of it is yourself, your former spouse, and witnesses. If the Tribunal is overworked and understaffed it will take longer than in places that have a full staff and fewer cases to review. If you, your ex, or your witnesses are slow to get paperwork in than it will delay the case. In my diocese, an annulment typically takes 12-18 months.

Fees also vary. My diocese does annulments free of charge as a rule, but asks that donations be made to Catholic Services Appeal to help defray costs. They say each annulment costs the diocese $800 in administrative costs (staff, building, lights and heat, etc.) If your parish charges a fee and you haven’t got the means to cover the fee you can ask for a reduced fee or make a payment arrangement. If they charge a fee where you live and you cannot afford a reduced fee or a payment arrangement the Church will not turn you away for the inability to pay.

When I applied for annulment I went to my diocese website and downloaded the forms. I then filled out and printed those forms to bring with me when I met with my priest. The questions are lengthy and very detailed. It took me about 3 days off and on to finish mine. I think it was a total of 19 pages printed out plus other required documents like baptism certificates, marriage license, divorce decree, and any police or counseling reports. Then the Tribunal sent me another two questionnaires after my case was accepted as having merit. So, prepare for a lot of soul searching, remembering, and writing. For me it was a very healing process.

 

[Tax_Collector14]

Wow, thank you so much for your kind words and time…I feel I’m truly at a crossroads so please keep me in all of your prayers…also pray for my spouse and children please…I’ve always wanted to do the right thing…life can be so confusing sometimes. Up until now, I’ve taken the fall on my sword approach to save this/keep it going, mainly out of love for my children…I guess you can only do that so long though.

 

[EvelynEVF]

Not all dioceses have a waiting period post-divorce before you can file, so that’s another thing to check on. I had my paperwork done months “early” and was sitting on it waiting when I found out we have no wait here.

 

[MJJean]

Wow, thank you so much for your kind words and time…I feel I’m truly at a crossroads so please keep me in all of your prayers…also pray for my spouse and children please…I’ve always wanted to do the right thing…life can be so confusing sometimes. Up until now, I’ve taken the fall on my sword approach to save this/keep it going, mainly out of love for my children…I guess you can only do that so long though.

Have you examined your reasons? Do you still love your wife? Do you think with help such as counseling you could save the marriage?

Not all dioceses have a waiting period post-divorce before you can file, so that’s another thing to check on. I had my paperwork done months “early” and was sitting on it waiting when I found out we have no wait here.

Huh, good to know. I was given to understand it was policy in the US for 6 months, but it must be a diocese thing. But the divorce does still have to be final, yes?

 

[EvelynEVF]

Yes, divorce must be final.

 

[Nic1099]

Hello,

I am a bit uncertain what is happening with your case, since you say that the letter said the decision would be “reviewed” but you also say the case is going through “another hearing, not just a confirmation.” Did you receive another letter telling you about this new “hearing”? If so, then the case is being re-tried, essentially.

Every first instance, affirmative is “reviewed” by the second instance court. That court always reads the Acts of the case (meaning the testimony, sentence, and procedure) and then decides whether or not to: 1) admit the case to an ordinary examination–basically repeating what happened in the first instance, procedurally, but usually not taking as long since there is not as much evidence that needs to be collected–or 2) immediately ratify the first instance decision, thereby ending the entire process.

It does not take an appeal for the case to be submitted to an ordinary examination in second instance.

It is uncommon for a second instance court to overturn the first instance court’s decision, whatever it may have been. Most of the time, the affirmative decision is ratified. Obviously, if your case has been admitted to an ordinary examination, the chances are higher for a contrary decision. Still, though, the majority of second instance, ordinary examinations end with the same decision as in first instance. These are general trends. I don’t know if they will correspond to your specific situation.

Dan

Thanks Dan for your reply.

I am confused by it all.

When I received the letter from the Court of First Instance stating the affirmative decision, it also said that the decision would be sent to the Court of Second Instance for review.

A few weeks later, I received a letter from the Court of Second Instance asking me for any further observations that I wish to make. I have submitted these and on a specific date, the case will be put forward for hearing.

Does this mean an appeal has been lodged by the Respondent, my spouse, or is it just another means of describing the ratification process? Or as you mentioned, is it being submitted to an ordinary examination in second instance without an appeal?

If an appeal was lodged, should I have been informed?

Regards
Nic

 

[MJJean]

Thanks Dan for your reply.

I am confused by it all.

When I received the letter from the Court of First Instance stating the affirmative decision, it also said that the decision would be sent to the Court of Second Instance for review.

A few weeks later, I received a letter from the Court of Second Instance asking me for any further observations that I wish to make. I have submitted these and on a specific date, the case will be put forward for hearing.

Does this mean an appeal has been lodged by the Respondent, my spouse, or is it just another means of describing the ratification process? Or as you mentioned, is it being submitted to an ordinary examination in second instance without an appeal?

If an appeal was lodged, should I have been informed?

Regards
Nic

I am not as far along in the process as you are, but I was told that the Court of First Instance would render a decision and then the case would be sent to a Court of Second Instance and be reviewed and a decision rendered by them. I was also told that I would have opportunity to add any information I thought relevant to the case and that I would be informed by each Tribunal when my case was advanced.

Considering all that, I think (but don’t know) that the letters you received are part of the normal process. I believe they do notify you if there has been an appeal.

Have you thought of calling the Tribunal and simply asking? For general information, at least here, the person answering the phone can help. For specifics you need to talk to the person assigned your case. I’d try calling and ask if the letter means there has been an appeal or if it is just the normal process moving along. If the person answering the phone cannot or will not answer questions, contact whoever is handling the case. Have your case number and the name of the person assigned your case ready when you call.

When I had problems with witness responses and my case was stalled I called the Tribunal and found the staff very kind and helpful. Don’t be shy about calling to ask questions. Of course, you also have the option of asking your priest or whoever acted as Procurator-Advocate.

 

[Tax_Collector14]

My reasons have always revolved around creating/maintaining a loving, and peace-filled home atmosphere for the kids.

When the pregnancy happened, it was clearly a shotgun decision to get married civilly, in order to calm her down and get the ball rolling on residency so that my baby would not be in danger or have to leave the country (at the moment it didn’t occur to me that her being born here made her American, etc.)…my girlfriend/civil wife at the time of course was very nervous and freaking out for lack of a better expression, especially when I advocated what I wanted, and what my parents recommended, which was either adoption or keeping the baby and living separately. And so the pattern that ensued and really defined our relationship was: she feels bad, cries, gets emotionally depressed, and I come to the rescue and make promises that keep the peace at the time, getting us through the rough patch. This essentially was what things were like during the first year of our civil marriage and so, realizing that we were living in sin (we were unable to remain chaste in that type of a setting), the only real solution I saw was a church wedding (for the grace needed, so I reasoned, to grow in our faith, which was my vocation as a husband)…obviously, closing in on 40 now and after 16 years of this, I now know better. I knew deep down that this day would come…I hoped and prayed that by doing ‘the right thing’ I would get a pass, that somehow things would be OK. We did a retrouvaille retreat last spring…it was at that point that I realized where I was in all of this. In other words, the retreat that oftentimes saves marriages sort of had the opposite affect on me, because it made me look in the mirror.

In any event, I might mention that it’s not like things are miserable, all the time…for that reason, we’ve lasted all this time. We are bringing up the kids Catholic, have them in Catholic school, pray as a family (not enough), are practicing Catholics, etc. By outward appearances, a lot of people actually admire us since we are involved in the local pro-life movement. So there are many beautiful things that have come out of this…beautiful on one hand and, I feel, perhaps hypocritical on the other, since I’ve always striven to live a life of outward virtue and cultivate it around me.