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EvelynEVF
Guest
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Oh, and depending on the diocese, you may not be interviewed. I answered a long questionnaire in writing, which was how they picked my witnesses. There were a couple of followup questions by phone.
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Oh, and depending on the diocese, you may not be interviewed. I answered a long questionnaire in writing, which was how they picked my witnesses. There were a couple of followup questions by phone.
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Learning4me
Guest
EvelynEVF - - wow - - - so my partner can be looking at another (almost) 2 years? It’s been 4 years already and no one’s been interviewed.
Here is a (bold) question… does one of the factors in how long this take have anything to do with how much “donation money” has been given to the tribunal? ( I am very skeptical at this point.)
Here is a (bold) question… does one of the factors in how long this take have anything to do with how much “donation money” has been given to the tribunal? ( I am very skeptical at this point.)
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EvelynEVF
Guest
It shouldn’t have anything to do with money. Some (many?) dioceses don’t charge, so there is no real way to “overpay.” I know that having an advocate who is willing to actually advocate, ie phone fairly frequently to make sure things keep moving, can help a lot. A former pastor at my parish was known for keeping things moving. Current advocate does nothing in that vein.
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Learning4me
Guest
The letter my partner got stating that in the next few weeks he’ll get a call to confirm his witnesses still are willing the last paragraph said:
“I noticed that you already sent in a cheque for $250. Please be prepared to talk to me about further donations when I call.”
This, to me, sounds like money is the issue - especially after waiting 4 years and still no one is interviewed. This is in Toronto - the Catholic population is relatively small here.
“I noticed that you already sent in a cheque for $250. Please be prepared to talk to me about further donations when I call.”
This, to me, sounds like money is the issue - especially after waiting 4 years and still no one is interviewed. This is in Toronto - the Catholic population is relatively small here.
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MJJean
Guest
Payment for Annulments is to cover the cost the Church bears for the Tribunal building, staff, utilities, office supplies, etc. In many places, the cost to the petitioner is actually less than the cost the Church incurs. For example, in my diocese annulments are free of charge to everyone. However, the cost to the Church is approximately $800 per case and we are asked to donate to the Catholic Services Appeal if we can to help defray that cost.
The Church’s policy is to never turn anyone away for inability to pay. The Church offers reduced fees, payment arrangements, and will do an annulment for free if the petitioner cannot afford to pay. So, I do not think the long waiting period you are experiencing is about money.
How long an annulment takes really does depend on resources available to the Tribunal and their caseload. It also depends on how quickly the petitioner and the respondent as well as witnesses respond. If the Tribunal is understaffed cases will take much longer than in a diocese that has a full staff, for example.
I did some checking for you on the Archdiocese of Toronto website. As of 2010, the archdiocese contains 225 parishes, 416 active diocesan priests, 419 religious priests, and 1,853,582 Catholics. The Tribunal there provides these services:
- The tribunal interviews those seeking freedom to enter a new marriage in the Church and assists them to understand the way in which the law applies to their individual case.
- The tribunal processes cases for which it has competence and assists a petitioner living here to deal with another tribunal if necessary.
- The tribunal interviews witnesses living in the Archdiocese for other tribunals around the world.
- The tribunal processes a) cases of lack of canonical form for Oriental Christians; b) cases of marriage contracted despite impediments; c) cases for dissolution for lack of baptism or consummation; and d) cases in which there may have been insufficient consent by one or both spouses.
- The tribunal works with the parish priest when a person who has received a declaration of nullity wishes to enter a new marriage.
- The tribunal ensures that proper notation is made in the baptismal and marriage registers when a declaration of nullity is given.
- The tribunal alerts clients to the fact that there is a required special second marriage course for those who have been previously wed. It cooperates with Catholic Family Services which provides this course.
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Batfink
Guest
I was interviewed before the witnesses, and then had the chance to comment before the case went to the Defender of the Bond. I was interviewed and the petition was submitted in April 2013. We expect a first decision (according to the diocese) at the end of this month and a second decision in another 3-6 months.
I went directly to the diocese and not through my pastor.
This is the diocese where my presumptive husband lives. The other diocese which has competence is the one where we were married. The latter is small and has no full time staff. The Defender of the Bond, for example, is a full-time school teacher who looks at the marriage cases in her spare time. I can well imagine the case would take longer there.
I didn’t have an option how much to pay. I was told what the charge was and given three options of how to split the payments (over 12 months, 24 months or 40 months). I’m sure there would have been some leeway if I’d obviously been destitute, but this discussion over money happened at the end of the interview, by which stage the interviewer clearly knew what my financial situation was.
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mariposaholly
Guest
This annulment process has been very stressful for me. How long does the second instance tribunal decision take? I have an answer from the first court (affirmative), and it was sent over a month ago to the second court. How long now?
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sadpanda2
Guest
How I wish I was in your position! I hope you hear soon but I am glad you’ve gotten your first affirmative decision.
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MJJean
Guest
How long the second decision takes is varied. I’ve heard an average of 3-6 months in some places and as long as a year or more in others. I haven’t gotten a first decision yet. The waiting is the hardest part. I just keep reminding myself that I will receive a decision when God wills it to be done and not a minute before.
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holyrood
Guest
I met with my pastor today to start the process. He’s telling me a year, but some are through in our diocese in less than that. The deacon told me they said a year, but he thinks most take longer than that.
I had all the forms filled out already, just have to find them on my old computer.
I had all the forms filled out already, just have to find them on my old computer.
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joanofarc2008
Guest
Some dioceses depending on the amount they have to charge to defray the costs such as lawyers etc. do set up the payments in a payment plan as such. Also, in some cases if someone cannot pay the full amount the diocese may set up a payment plan or waive it entirely dependent upon the income and need of the person. In the three dioceses I have been in it has ranged from $400-$600 total. These were all in the US though.
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Nic1099
Guest
Hi!
In my case, my witnesses were called four months after I applied. The decision of the local Tribunal arrived two months after that. I’m now awaiting the decision of the Court of Second Instance. I’m not sure how long it will take for you as each case is decided on its own merits. Some take longer than others.
Hope this helps and here’s wishing you all the best.
Nic
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Nic1099
Guest
Hi
Know that you’re not alone in finding the annulment process stressful! I’m not finding the actual process difficult but rather the reactions of my spouse (the respondent) and his family. Even within my own family it caused a lot of upheaval.
My son is very supportive but some family members reacted angrily to my decision to apply for a Decree of Nullity. My sister-in-law went berserk which caused a rift between her and her husband (my brother). My brother consented to being a witness for me, which his wife objected to. I don’t know why exactly. I can only presume that as she is still on friendly terms with my spouse, she felt that they had to take sides.
My spouse’s family also reacted very strongly against the annulment. This is odd as he has remarried civilly and is now an atheist. His father and sister were his witnesses and told awful lies about me. After I read and counteracted the evidence during the Publication of the Acts, I came out shaken and upset to such an extent, that I was hardly able to drive the car home properly.
Thankfully however, like you, I received an affirmative decision and am now awaiting the decision of the Court of Second Instance. I don’t know how long it will take. I don’t know if the original decision will be confirmed or sent for an ordinary examination. Sometimes it can take only two or three months or in some cases, up to a year.
I wish you all the best!
Nic
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Nic1099
Guest
Hi Learning4me
In my case, I was interviewed first. Four months after that, my witnesses were called. The decision of the local Tribunal came two months after that, which I’m delighted to say was affirmative. About a month ago, I received a letter from the Court of Second Instance asking me for any further observations that I’d like to make. I provided the Tribunal with those and am now awaiting their decision. I don’t know how long it will take.
Wishing you all the best,
Nic
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mariposaholly
Guest
Thanks for all your help. I contacted the office and they said it is going to be reviewed in March, and that it will either be approved or reopened. I think it will be approved. I’m not Catholic, but am considering being catholic because my fiancé is. This process has really cast a shadow over Catholicism for me because I was told it would be a healing process. Really, it has just reopened a lot of painful memories for me without any healing. My ex husband beat me and put me in the hospital, but it is easier to prove that I was young and naïve when we married so that is the ground (even though I have hospital records and police reports). It really feels like they are placing no blame on his actions but rather on me. It is very hard for my family as well. Hopefully it will be over soon.
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MJJean
Guest
I think you may lack understanding of marriage and annulment from the Catholic point of view.
A marriage is either valid or invalid at the time of the ceremony. Nothing that happens afterward can make a valid marriage invalid and this does include abuse or adultery. Abuse and/or adultery may mean you can morally apply for a civil divorce, but it does not make a validly contracted marriage invalid since Catholics believe a valid marriage is for the entire life and cannot be dissolved by anyone here on earth. That said, some things that happen after a marriage can be used as evidence to prove it was not a valid marriage at the time of consent.
From my Archdiocese website:
"A declaration of nullity is a decision that is made by the Church, which acknowledges that a couple never established the sacred bond of marriage. This “declaration” can only be made after one of the parties in a former marriage requests it, and only after a detailed study of the marriage has been carried out. The process of declaring a marriage bond to be ‘null’ examines the intention and understanding of both people at the time of their wedding to see if the necessary elements of a full and true marriage were present (i.e., permanence, fidelity, the ability for true companionship and love of the spouses, and openness to generating and educating children).
The declaration of nullity process seeks to determine whether or not there was anything that prevented these elements from being present in the relationship, despite the fact that both individuals may have entered the marriage with the best of intentions. Marriages rarely fail because of ill will or malice. It could happen that one or both spouses were unable to create the quality of relationship necessary to establish this sacred bond. If the Church declares that a prior bond of marriage was not properly established, the parties are considered free to celebrate a new marriage in the church. A declaration of nullity is a religious decision that does not have any civil effect on the relationship or legitimacy of any children born of the union."
So, what the Tribunal was examining wasn’t what happened after you were married. They were examining the understanding and ability to fully and freely consent to marriage as understood and taught by the Church.
The annulment process doesn’t place blame on either party. You are not seen as being at fault any more than your ex is seen as being at fault. It’s not about placing blame on anyone. It’s about determining if one or both of you understood the nature of marriage and were capable of freely consenting to marriage and of carrying out the obligations and duties of marriage. Which, since you have an invalid ruling from the first Tribunal, you and/or your former husband weren’t. And that’s ok! Many people don’t have the understanding or capability to freely consent to a marriage as understood by the Church. We live, we learn, we grow and change.
I was also in an abusive first marriage. The last time we lived under the same roof he was arrested for strangling me on the stairs and taken to jail to “cool off” while I packed his stuff and his mother came to get it. I eventually remarried a non practicing Catholic and decided to convert when my husband came back to the Church. I applied for annulment and found it a healing process because I researched the process extensively and understood the Church’s teachings on marriages and annulments as well as why those teachings exist.
What made annulment a healing process for me was seeing clearly for the first time where my head was, why I made the choices I made, and how those choices affected my life at the time and ever after. I also saw that even though I was married civilly I was not in a valid spiritual union of any kind. And I realized that my ex, for psychological reasons, was completely incapable of marrying anyone validly and that the failure of the attempted marriage was not my fault nor was it his fault as he was then and still is truly mentally ill. After understanding what happened and why I was able to accept truly let go of that part of my past.
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cecilia97
Guest
Just want to pop in and let you all know I am praying for you. My nullity process took 14 months from filing. It was painful but I grew a lot. May God bless you all.
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holyrood
Guest
I finally met with my deacon, and am left a bit discouraged. I apparently gave too much detail of my family background in the personal history. He wants it to be detailed…but not too detailed. He wants more positives about my upbringing.
Any thoughts or advice?
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MJJean
Guest
Go over it and try to edit it. Also try to present a slightly more balanced view. There are services that help annulment seekers write their statements if you need that help. There is also the possibility of getting help from someone at the tribunal or a deacon or another layperson experienced in the process.
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MJJean
Guest
Tax Collector, I sent a reply to your PM, but it was too lengthy to fit in one sending. So, I split it up. Half went through and half is saved to my notepad because you’re messages folder has reached its limit. If you delete some things I’ll be happy to send the 2nd half! 
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