Annulments/support group

[Steve_P]

People just didn’t get it. My response?

“The catholic Church is one of the largest organizations on the planet with about 1 BILLION members. I can’t stand the idea that such an organization still sees me as married to that jackass!”

When all else fails have a laugh.

Thanks for the laugh. My wife and I both enjoyed the story.

 

[sadpanda2]

I would like to request your prayers. I, a Catholic, was married to another Catholic who filed for divorce right around our second wedding anniversary. It has been nearly five years since our divorce was final. My nullity proceeding has been pending for between 12 and 18 months. A few weeks ago I sent my closing argument to the Tribunal.

Now I am terrified of receiving the statement from the Defender of the Bond about what I did wrong and why my terrible marriage should be held valid. I am worried that they will simply throw their hands up and say “Nope, not enough evidence,” because all I have are my statement and witness testimony in a case regarding willful exclusion of children – no letters, email, phone records, and so forth. Beyond that, obviously the case is personal – only my ex-wife and I ever mentioned our vow to remain intentionally childless, and we put up a facade of “everything’s fine, this is a perfect marriage,” thereby making my statement pretty much stand alone – nobody to corroborate it, per se.

So please pray that a just and swift decision be rendered. I am trying so hard to trust in God and in the process but these fears are just so heavy and I’ve felt worn down for weeks.

Thanks, and God bless you.

Thanks to any and all who prayed for me; my case has made it through both courts and nullity has been proven. Thanks be to God!

Seems an odd and tragic thing to celebrate but I am certain justice prevailed. Lots of prayer and worry went into this and it is good to be done.

Blessings and patience to those going through or considering this process.

 

[December_Girl]

I am currently in the midst of the annulment process. I recently received notification from the Tribunal that I can now make an appointment to read the documents/testimony. Can anyone tell me whether or not my ex-husband (respondent) will be able to read anything as he did not respond one way or another when he was first notified that I had started the process?

 

[dans0622]

I am currently in the midst of the annulment process. I recently received notification from the Tribunal that I can now make an appointment to read the documents/testimony. Can anyone tell me whether or not my ex-husband (respondent) will be able to read anything as he did not respond one way or another when he was first notified that I had started the process?

Hello,

It depends on if he has already been declared “absent.” If so, he (probably) wouldn’t be given any notice of this step in the process. I say “probably” because I suppose it is possible that a Tribunal would tell even an “absent” party that the testimony is available for review. The law does not require this and expects that the “absent” party would not be told of this step.

If he was not declared “absent” then he would have certainly received the same notice as you did.

Dan

 

[MJJean]

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

I got a call from my favorite Sister yesterday asking if I could help with planning a parish event. She asked if I had heard anything from the Tribunal and then mentioned that they are in the process of moving to a different building. So, with the move and all, I imagine I won’t be hearing anything until…well, never!

It’s been a year. I don’t know how people who have waited longer stayed sane. ARRRGH!

 

[sadpanda2]

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

I got a call from my favorite Sister yesterday asking if I could help with planning a parish event. She asked if I had heard anything from the Tribunal and then mentioned that they are in the process of moving to a different building. So, with the move and all, I imagine I won’t be hearing anything until…well, never!

It’s been a year. I don’t know how people who have waited longer stayed sane. ARRRGH!

Take heart. I submitted my paperwork after the Judicial Vicar had announced his retirement. Little did I know his replacement was coming in from Rome, all the other judges were moving to Advocate roles, and completely new judges were taking their places. It was eight months before receipt of my papers was even confirmed.

But … everything DID move after that. Quickly, it sometimes seemed. Perhaps your Tribunal will hustle and make up for lost time when the move is complete.

 

[MJJean]

Take heart. I submitted my paperwork after the Judicial Vicar had announced his retirement. Little did I know his replacement was coming in from Rome, all the other judges were moving to Advocate roles, and completely new judges were taking their places. It was eight months before receipt of my papers was even confirmed.

But … everything DID move after that. Quickly, it sometimes seemed. Perhaps your Tribunal will hustle and make up for lost time when the move is complete.

Thanks.

We’re also short staffed. The same Sister casually mentioned last I went in to her office for something that I could expect some delays due to the Tribunal losing staff to retirements and such.

Short staffed, moving to a new building, tons of cases…sometimes it seems like it will never happen. Like I will never come out the other side Confirmed and sacramentally married. Whatever lesson God wants me to learn from this experience I hope I figure it out and can someday say it was all worth it.

 

[EvelynEVF]

It drives me bonkers that dioceses are doing programs encouraging people to regularize their marriages, when they don’t have the capacity to support it. I think I’m the current record holder, marking 4.5 years in a couple of weeks. My hold up now is the last witness, who after providing excellent, critical, appeal-proof testimony in an interview, has chickened out of doing the last stage because she is afraid of what my ex will do to me when the ruling is made.

And then she left town for three weeks.

I wish I knew what God is up to.

 

[MJJean]

It drives me bonkers that dioceses are doing programs encouraging people to regularize their marriages, when they don’t have the capacity to support it. I think I’m the current record holder, marking 4.5 years in a couple of weeks. My hold up now is the last witness, who after providing excellent, critical, appeal-proof testimony in an interview, has chickened out of doing the last stage because she is afraid of what my ex will do to me when the ruling is made.

And then she left town for three weeks.

I wish I knew what God is up to.

Wow…4.5 years. I’m surprised you can still think in complete sentences and haven’t gone totally bonkers.

If your witness doesn’t do the final step due to her worries will the Tribunal still allow your case to move forward based on what she has already done?

 

[EvelynEVF]

They would, I’m sure, but her testimony is so very key, as she can corroborate some things that no one else can, and she has had firsthand experience with my xh and seen his interactions in a number of situations, including with my kids. I fully expect my dh to appeal to Rome, and her testimony is necessary to make sure that Rome rules in my favor. Obviously, nothing is sure about anything, and I sound like it is, but that’s a coping mechanism.

I can form complete sentences only because a few months ago I decided that I cannot live like a nun anymore, and I need to give myself permission to at least be open to the possibility that another man may cross my path. I had previously drawn my lines super conservatively, and it was just too much of a burden to carry. I doubt I would ever do an online dating profile, as that isn’t my style, but I’m beginning to accept that while I couldn’t remarry while waiting, I can’t be completely shut off to the idea of male companionship. Continuing to permit that level of control/manipulation (the tribunal is at fault for the delay, but his actions are definitely at the root of it) by a man whom I had to divorce to escape control/manipulation, was more than I could handle, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.

 

[His_helpmeet]

They would, I’m sure, but her testimony is so very key, as she can corroborate some things that no one else can, and she has had firsthand experience with my xh and seen his interactions in a number of situations, including with my kids. I fully expect my dh to appeal to Rome, and her testimony is necessary to make sure that Rome rules in my favor. Obviously, nothing is sure about anything, and I sound like it is, but that’s a coping mechanism.

I can form complete sentences only because a few months ago I decided that I cannot live like a nun anymore, and I need to give myself permission to at least be open to the possibility that another man may cross my path. I had previously drawn my lines super conservatively, and it was just too much of a burden to carry. I doubt I would ever do an online dating profile, as that isn’t my style, but I’m beginning to accept that while I couldn’t remarry while waiting, I can’t be completely shut off to the idea of male companionship. Continuing to permit that level of control/manipulation (the tribunal is at fault for the delay, but his actions are definitely at the root of it) by a man whom I had to divorce to escape control/manipulation, was more than I could handle, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually.

My understanding is that it’s very rare for the Rota to actually hear a case. Consequently your DH can appeal all he wants, but it you have 2 tribunals saying your marriage was not valid, it’s unlikely they would actually hear the case unless there were clear problems with how the decision was made.

 

[EvelynEVF]

My understanding is that it’s very rare for the Rota to actually hear a case. Consequently your DH can appeal all he wants, but it you have 2 tribunals saying your marriage was not valid, it’s unlikely they would actually hear the case unless there were clear problems with how the decision was made.

A respondent has the right to appeal a first instance decision right over the head of the usual tribunal of second instance (often the arch diocese) and take it right to the Rota for the second instance.

All the people who say annulments are handed out like candy don’t realize how much trouble a respondent can make if they have a mind to. In the interest of fairness, there is room for serious abuse of the process, years and years worth.

 

[DAML72]

Should I get help from my priest when filling out the initial questionnaire? I’m not a canon lawyer, but I am a lawyer, so I think I can structure the answers well. But at the same time, I think I may also go overboard. At what point do people ask for help if they do?

 

[EvelynEVF]

Overboard is not a bad thing. Details are good. I would suggest you write everything you can think of, and then give it to someone to proofread. But don’t hold back in the initial writing. It’s really therapeutic, and you also don’t want to accidentally overlook something. You can always cut later.

 

[MJJean]

Overboard is not a bad thing. Details are good. I would suggest you write everything you can think of, and then give it to someone to proofread. But don’t hold back in the initial writing. It’s really therapeutic, and you also don’t want to accidentally overlook something. You can always cut later.

Yes! I think mine was 19 pages, typed, and my advocate was pleased with it.

EvelynEVF, I understand. I really do. I’m honestly not sure what I would have done if I met DH while waiting for an annulment that was dragging on and on due to Tribunal errors and/or my ex being difficult deliberately. Thing is, my ex would happily make my annulment difficult if he A) understood he could and B) took anything Christian seriously. But because he has no idea he can make such mischief and thinks Christianity is a joke he didn’t bother and just wrote on the papers that he was not Christian and had no desire to participate in the process and mailed them back.

 

[EvelynEVF]

EvelynEVF, I understand. I really do.

No, you don’t understand; you really don’t. I appreciate the sentiment, and I know you have some sense of the struggle, and what it’s like to be in an abusive marriage, but truly you have no idea. I’m not angry, and I don’t have the energy to be more than mildly offended, so please don’t take this as a harsh rebuke. I can’t count how many people have said the same words to me over the last several years. I considered not even responding, but decided that a bit of a public service announcement is warranted for the sake of others on both sides.

It’s kind of like what we do at funerals. You’re not supposed to say it was God’s will or God’s timing. You certainly never say you understand because your dog just died last year. You say you’re sorry and it’s so sad and you promise your prayers.

This is a case of my beloved Church utterly failing me. The interminable wait has been awful, but it’s far worse to be betrayed by the Church during what is supposed to be a process of healing.

 

[MJJean]

No, you don’t understand; you really don’t. I appreciate the sentiment, and I know you have some sense of the struggle, and what it’s like to be in an abusive marriage, but truly you have no idea. I’m not angry, and I don’t have the energy to be more than mildly offended, so please don’t take this as a harsh rebuke. I can’t count how many people have said the same words to me over the last several years. I considered not even responding, but decided that a bit of a public service announcement is warranted for the sake of others on both sides.

It’s kind of like what we do at funerals. You’re not supposed to say it was God’s will or God’s timing. You certainly never say you understand because your dog just died last year. You say you’re sorry and it’s so sad and you promise your prayers.

This is a case of my beloved Church utterly failing me. The interminable wait has been awful, but it’s far worse to be betrayed by the Church during what is supposed to be a process of healing.

You’re right. I was not Christian when my own abusive marriage finally ended, so I did not have that same struggle. My struggle was different. I am so sorry that you’ve been dealt such a cruddy hand and I do pray for all of our annulments every Mass I attend.

 

[Nic1099]

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

I got a call from my favorite Sister yesterday asking if I could help with planning a parish event. She asked if I had heard anything from the Tribunal and then mentioned that they are in the process of moving to a different building. So, with the move and all, I imagine I won’t be hearing anything until…well, never!

It’s been a year. I don’t know how people who have waited longer stayed sane. ARRRGH!

Thinking about you MJJean and praying that all will work out for you.

God bless
Nic

 

[MJJean]

Thinking about you MJJean and praying that all will work out for you.

God bless
Nic

Thank you so much!

 

[Nic1099]

Hi, me back again!

As you all know, I received my Decree of Nullity in May after two conforming affirmative decisions. I recently heard through a mutual acquaintance that the respondent intends to launch an appeal to the Roman Rota. I acknowledge that many of you, in particular Dan have been very informative in dealing with my requests for knowledge and that this scenario is highly unlikely, however I’d like to know what would constitute ‘new and serious proofs’ if this was to proceed?

This is probably ‘sabre-rattling’ on the behalf of the respondent but I’d like to know what to expect.

I understand that within 30 days of notice of an appeal, the respondent has to produce the evidence and then within another 30 days, the Tribunal decides whether to admit the new evidence or not. Is this Tribunal the Court of Second Instance or the Roman Rota?

Is there a period of time after the Decree has been issued that the respondent has to initiate the appeal to Rome or can they do so whenever the evidence becomes available and/or feel like it?

If this evidence was available, why wasn’t it submitted during the initial process?

Lastly, if it does go to Rome, I’m concerned at the high percentage of decisions that the Rota overturns. Why is this so? Why is there such a high discrepancy between how Tribunals conduct Nullity investigations and the Rota?

I intend to get married in late 2015 and am concerned that I may have to postpone the wedding indefinitely. On a personal note, my son is being threatened with being disinherited by his father if he attends my wedding. This is all very distressing and I pray that the respondent will find peace.

On a positive note, I haven’t received any correspondence from the Tribunal here stating that another appeal has been submitted. I’m delighted to say also, that my son will be attending my wedding regardless of what his father says or does.

Thanks again to all for your (name removed by moderator)ut.