Annulments/support group

[MJJean]

Wow. A year? I read all your posts. Do you think the turn over in staff and the office moving had something to do with the delay? Is this the average?

From what I understand, understaffed Tribunals aren’t all that uncommon and a lot of folks are hoping either a streamlined process or increased staffing will come out of the synod.

As I said, I was told 18 months average to complete the entire process and mine was finished in 21 months, so the estimate wasn’t too far off.

 

[Convert1]

From what I understand, understaffed Tribunals aren’t all that uncommon and a lot of folks are hoping either a streamlined process or increased staffing will come out of the synod.

As I said, I was told 18 months average to complete the entire process and mine was finished in 21 months, so the estimate wasn’t too far off.

Thank you for all your help. You have been very kind. I agree with other posts that God will direct this process not anyone else. The waiting is maddening, though.

 

[kwillson]

If you don’t mind me asking, how long did it take for you to receive your First Decision following the Publication of the Acts?

I submitted my paperwork on 17 Jan 2014. Received first decision on 24 March 2015. Think I received Publication of Acts notice in Jan 2015.
sorry i didnt reply before. i just noticed your question tonite.

 

[Peebo]

My wifes annulment process has been going on for nearly 12 months…and I can tell you I’m pretty disgusted in the time it takes to get to a decision…some of it has hurt my wife terribly but still she soldiers on…we are both in our sixties…my first wife has passed away…so I am not involved in the annulment…her first marriage came to an end on her 30th wedding anniversary when her then husband served her with divorce papers and said he was going to live with his girlfriend…no mediation…no chance of reconciliation…kiss my butt…their marriage was a “shotgun” wedding back in the sixties…I won’t go into all the details but suffice to say that when she applied for an annulment she was told she had more than the required number of impediments needed to seek an invalid marriage…but I’m jumping ahead of myself…before she was even contemplating the Catholic Church…my wife was /is Methodist…I attended her church a few times but found no real presence of God like you do when you enter a Catholic…she would attend my church and found the whole experience of the mass as something she had never experienced…and so this went on for a number of years with her mainly attending the Catholic Church…I never pushed her or asked her what she thought… I waited for her to ask first…meanwhile what I did was pray to the Holy Spirit to open her heart to the beauty of the Catholic faith…she became familiar with the mass and understood why we couldn’t the Eucharist…she had always believed (even as a Methodist) it was truly the body and blood of Christ…then she started picking up little booklets from church…she stated reading the weekly bulletin on the way home…small things like this…all I did was keep praying to the Holy Spirit…one night after mass about 12 months ago she went over to a table and filled out a form…on the way home I asked her what she had filled out…to join the next RCIA class starting in a few weeks…okay then she wanted to find an advocate to start the annulment process…so the Holy Spirit was doing what he does…opens the pathway to the true church of God…she is attending RCIA…she can’t believe what she is hearing what the Catholic Church teaches and backs up with fact…she went through the SYMBOLON video series for RCIA…it blew her mind that she was never told those truths as a Protestant…after that there was no stopping her…she bought a Rosary and learnt the decades and started praying them in her computer room…I walked in on her one morning and there she was praying the Rosary…I was so ashamed,here I had Rosaries all over the place and would recite it once in a while…which wasn’t very often…now she has me praying it every day…and the Divine Mercy…she makes sure I’m ready for Mass Sunday evening…if we have family cook out she lets it be known not on Sunday afternoon as we have to be ready for Mass…she’s certainly made me lift my game…the priests in our Parish have been fabulous to her,we have 3 young Priest…they understand what a struggle this annulment has been for for her and have told her she is not alone in our Parish…others are also hurting…they see an experience this hurt in their parishners and don’t agree with the long drawn out process and are hoping that the Synod in October will at least streamline the process…nobody is asking for a change in Doctrine…one of our Deacons and his wife went through a similar process years ago and have been very supportive also…I"ll try to wrap this up a bit quicker…her birth certificate…big problem…the Baptist chuch she was Baptised didn’t issue certificates…after months of trying eventually thanks to our Deacons wife she found some record which the church accepted…second bigger problem…it had been 48 years since she was previously married…in a small home ceremony attended by a small family gathering…quess what…most of them had died…she had one brother in law (my wifes sister who passed away 2 years ago)…she has one remaining sister…when she found out she wanted to become a Catholic and wanted a statement about the relationship prior to the marriage she cut her off…blocked any calls from my wife trying to explain…when she received the letter form the diocese she sent it back telling thwm never to send her anything…never to call…she called our local Parish and told them the same …the only sister my wife has will now have nothing to do with her…of course she is deeply deeply hurt…at least her brother in law had the decency to respond…but the Diocese won’t accept one witness…so she had to find 4 other witnesses who have known her for at least 10 years and have them fill out forms…which thank God they did…apparently still not good enough…now she has to go see a ( I might not get the term right)…I think it’s a special witness or special advocate…so she makes an appointment through the Diocese and they tell her she’ll have to pay up front to the ( I guess she is a Psychologist)…so this won’t be cheap…so they give her a phone number and she calls to make an appointment…“we’ll call you back and let you know”…is this the way appoints are set up??..she calls back the Diocese 2 weeks later and asks what she should do…the Diocese tells her the same thing…they’ll call you back…now it’s been over a month…as if my wife hasn’t been put through enough…now when she sees a light at the end of the tunnel it’s just like another slap in the face…but knowing her I know she’ll hang in there till the end no matter how much it hurts…because what she wants to be …a Catholic…me…I’m happy I’m Catholic…I’m not a happy Catholic though…sorry for the vent folks

 

[kwillson]

Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am both elated and relieved to announce that I have received a letter…

SECOND AFFIRMATIVE!!!

I just got home from work and my children handed me a beautifully (crayon) decorated envelope with a “Mother’s Day Card” enclosed. When I opened the “card”, I found the LETTER FROM THE ARCHDIOCESE TRIBUNAL OFFICE!!!
We all had a big group hug, some tears of joy and a little sadness were spilled, and we have decided that on June 1, I will be joining Ave Maria Singles to look for a HUSBAND.

Thank you for your support! I want to tell anyone going through this process that it IS worthwhile, although painstakingly slow and, at times, excruciating to await ANY word about your individual case.
DO NOT GIVE UP! :extrahappy::extrahappy:

 

[MJJean]

Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am both elated and relieved to announce that I have received a letter…

SECOND AFFIRMATIVE!!!

I just got home from work and my children handed me a beautifully (crayon) decorated envelope with a “Mother’s Day Card” enclosed. When I opened the “card”, I found the LETTER FROM THE ARCHDIOCESE TRIBUNAL OFFICE!!!
We all had a big group hug, some tears of joy and a little sadness were spilled, and we have decided that on June 1, I will be joining Ave Maria Singles to look for a HUSBAND.

Thank you for your support! I want to tell anyone going through this process that it IS worthwhile, although painstakingly slow and, at times, excruciating to await ANY word about your individual case.
DO NOT GIVE UP! :extrahappy::extrahappy:

I’m so happy for you!

 

[His_helpmeet]

Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am both elated and relieved to announce that I have received a letter…

SECOND AFFIRMATIVE!!!

I just got home from work and my children handed me a beautifully (crayon) decorated envelope with a “Mother’s Day Card” enclosed. When I opened the “card”, I found the LETTER FROM THE ARCHDIOCESE TRIBUNAL OFFICE!!!
We all had a big group hug, some tears of joy and a little sadness were spilled, and we have decided that on June 1, I will be joining Ave Maria Singles to look for a HUSBAND.

Thank you for your support! I want to tell anyone going through this process that it IS worthwhile, although painstakingly slow and, at times, excruciating to await ANY word about your individual case.
DO NOT GIVE UP! :extrahappy::extrahappy:

Congratulations! I wish you every happiness. I remember having that same wonderful feeling when DH received his final notice. (I had not been married previously so there was no issue for me.) We were already civilly married, so all we had to do was contact the priest (we had previously done marriage preparation) and set a date for our convalidation. I agree with you - the process is SO worth it. It is so wonderful knowing that you are able to be truly, validly, married to your best friend.

 

[rose2]

Hi LaLucia,

I have benefited so much from all of the annulment info posted here over the last two years. My boyfriend got his 2nd instance affirmation of nullity a couple days ago and I now know more about annulments than I ever thought I would LOL!

NOW, my question is about the Pauline Privilege. Do you know anything about it? I need to get this started for my own previous marriage. That marriage involved my exhusband and myself, both unbaptized for the duration of the marriage. I am now Catholic and he is not but we were both unbaptized when we were civilly divorced 6 years ago.

I will be meeting with my priest about this in the next couple of weeks but do you have any idea on estimates concerning duration? I know they are much shorter than annulments. Any experience with this??

Thank you and God bless!

 

[rose2]

I have a friend whose husband was eligible for the pauline privilege this was because his previous marriage had been to a non christian and he had been brought up in the salvation army where there is no baptism by water. it took about 6 months but it had to be heard at the Vatican in Rome. I hope that helps.

 

[Convert1]

Ladies and Gentlemen,
I am both elated and relieved to announce that I have received a letter…

SECOND AFFIRMATIVE!!!

I just got home from work and my children handed me a beautifully (crayon) decorated envelope with a “Mother’s Day Card” enclosed. When I opened the “card”, I found the LETTER FROM THE ARCHDIOCESE TRIBUNAL OFFICE!!!
We all had a big group hug, some tears of joy and a little sadness were spilled, and we have decided that on June 1, I will be joining Ave Maria Singles to look for a HUSBAND.

Thank you for your support! I want to tell anyone going through this process that it IS worthwhile, although painstakingly slow and, at times, excruciating to await ANY word about your individual case.
DO NOT GIVE UP! :extrahappy::extrahappy:

You Go GIRL! Awesome news! You give me great hope! What wonderful children you have too! God Bless You and your family!

 

[Convert1]

Peebo
You obviously love your wife very much. The Catholic Church holds ALL marriages in extremely high regard. Thus, the reason for the annulment process being so complicated.
As the petitioner, we are faced with proving the marriage is not valid. That’s a tough position from the get-go.

Raised as a Protestant, my story is similar, and worse, I had to go back over trying to escape years of abuse as a child (which is why I married in the first place). My family had to relive abuse, as well as my witnesses. So, yes, it is hard. My husband is cradle Catholic and no clue about annulment. I found most folks don’t.

I can only tell you what I did to manage the process:

1. Pray. Pray everyday. Pray together. I felt so much stronger when my husband prayed with me.
2. Have your wife contact her advocate at the Tribunal and meet with him/her if possible. All Tribunals are different, so their structure may be such that they want her to meet with her priest and have the priest advocate her position. An advocate can help in moving the process forward and staying in touch with her priest is crucial during the process.
3. Consult a Canon Lawyer. There are several on the internet. This was monumental in my case and helped me greatly. He told me my rights as a petitioner, and how the process should go. There are several books written by Canon Lawyers on annulment. Reading books on the subject made me more prepared.
4. Utilize as many support groups as possible. The RCIA folks, this forum, my family, my church community; all of these have been so valuable. Support means everything during this time.

My case is up for First Decision and I hold to my Faith and my hunger for the Eucharist as my strength.
I will pray my Rosary for you and your wife tonight. God Bless you, both! Please don’t give up!

 

[His_helpmeet]

I have a friend whose husband was eligible for the pauline privilege this was because his previous marriage had been to a non christian and he had been brought up in the salvation army where there is no baptism by water. it took about 6 months but it had to be heard at the Vatican in Rome. I hope that helps.

This actually seems to describe the Petrine Privilege, not the Pauline Privilege. The Pauline Privilege is for someone who has never been baptized and whose former spouse has never been baptized, if the person wishes to marry a Catholic AND I believe they must not have been the cause of the marriage breakdown. The Pauline Privilege is exercised by the local bishop.

The Petrine Privilege, or the Favour of the Faith, is for someone who has been baptized validly and was married to a non-baptized spouse. The baptized party must not have been the cause of the marriage breakdown. In this case, the Pope can dissolve the marriage.

Please note that in these cases the marriage is actually being dissolved, not declared invalid. This can be done because these are natural marriages only, not sacramental marriages. They are still valid marriages, but the couple have not been joined by God.

 

[Augustine]

It is a “prohibition” which is supposed to prevent a person from marrying in the Church. It is imposed after a nullity process which has discovered that the person had some sort of constitutional incapacity to marry (let’s say the man was addicted to alcohol and so was unable to marry) or had a gravely deficient intention when attempting the prior marriage (let’s say the woman excluded children from the prior union).

Who can remove the prohibition, the original tribunal, any tribunal or any priest? What if a marriage is performed in the Church without its removal?

Christus resurrexit!

 

[rose2]

This actually seems to describe the Petrine Privilege, not the Pauline Privilege. The Pauline Privilege is for someone who has never been baptized and whose former spouse has never been baptized, if the person wishes to marry a Catholic AND I believe they must not have been the cause of the marriage breakdown. The Pauline Privilege is exercised by the local bishop.

The Petrine Privilege, or the Favour of the Faith, is for someone who has been baptized validly and was married to a non-baptized spouse. The baptized party must not have been the cause of the marriage breakdown. In this case, the Pope can dissolve the marriage.

Please note that in these cases the marriage is actually being dissolved, not declared invalid. This can be done because these are natural marriages only, not sacramental marriages. They are still valid marriages, but the couple have not been joined by God.

Thank you my mistake that is right. what is the Pauline privilege then?

 

[His_helpmeet]

Thank you my mistake that is right. what is the Pauline privilege then?

The Pauline Privilege is granted by the bishop. This is for a case where neither party was baptized. One party has chosen to prepare for Baptism or has been baptized (after the marriage was civilly dissolved). The party preparing for or having been baptized intends to marry a Catholic. In these cases, a valid natural marriage exists between the two former spouses. However, because it is not a sacramental marriage (due to their non-baptized status) the marriage can be dissolved, and because neither party was baptized during the civil duration of the marriage the bishop can dissolve the marriage. This is called the Pauline Privilege because St. Paul wrote of it in one of his letters in Scripture.

 

[dans0622]

Who can remove the prohibition, the original tribunal, any tribunal or any priest? What if a marriage is performed in the Church without its removal?

Christus resurrexit!

Hello,

First question: that can depend on the circumstances but it would always be on the Tribunal/Chancery level, not left to “any priest.”

Second question: there is no automatic invalidity of the marriage, if that is what you are wondering. The “prohibition”, practically, says that a marriage “should not” happen: it does not say that a marriage “cannot happen.” I hope that distinction make sense.

Dan

 

[dans0622]

The Pauline Privilege is granted by the bishop. This is for a case where neither party was baptized. One party has chosen to prepare for Baptism or has been baptized (after the marriage was civilly dissolved). The party preparing for or having been baptized intends to marry a Catholic. In these cases, a valid natural marriage exists between the two former spouses. However, because it is not a sacramental marriage (due to their non-baptized status) the marriage can be dissolved, and because neither party was baptized during the civil duration of the marriage the bishop can dissolve the marriage. This is called the Pauline Privilege because St. Paul wrote of it in one of his letters in Scripture.

Hello,

More precisely, the bishop (or delegate) investigates the facts and simply allows people to use this privilege. He does not personally dissolve the prior marriage. It is the act of entering the new marriage which dissolves the prior one (see canon 1143.1). Also, a person actually can be “baptized during the civil duration of the marriage” and then use the privilege (the other requirements all being met, of course).

Dan

 

[Convert1]

My husband received his first decision of nullity last week. Submitted his petition in Oct. 2014. His witnesses filled out a questionnaire and returned them in December. He never appeared in person. His witnesses were never contacted. His ex did not respond. He basically submitted his petition and that was his participation. Eight months is all it took.

I am thrilled for him, of course. It’s just amazing how completely different my experience was and the fact that I was interviewed in person, as were my witnesses, and had a psychological evaluation. I submitted my paperwork and petition in September and have heard nothing following the Publication of the Acts. I understand how long everyone says it takes, but obviously it does not have to be that way if one diocese can complete the process in such a different manner. Further, I am terrified that mine will not end the same, and then what am I to do? Confused and really scared right now.

 

[Peebo]

My husband received his first decision of nullity last week. Submitted his petition in Oct. 2014. His witnesses filled out a questionnaire and returned them in December. He never appeared in person. His witnesses were never contacted. His ex did not respond. He basically submitted his petition and that was his participation. Eight months is all it took.

I am thrilled for him, of course. It’s just amazing how completely different my experience was and the fact that I was interviewed in person, as were my witnesses, and had a psychological evaluation. I submitted my paperwork and petition in September and have heard nothing following the Publication of the Acts. I understand how long everyone says it takes, but obviously it does not have to be that way if one diocese can complete the process in such a different manner. Further, I am terrified that mine will not end the same, and then what am I to do? Confused and really scared right now.

Congrats to your husband…my wife is still waiting…been going on 12 months…because her first marriage was so long ago there are only 2 witnesses left…one refused and told the diocese never to contact her again…one did reply…only one witness…not enough…she then had four witnesses who have known her for a considerable length of time fill out their depositions…still not good enough…she has to have a special witness…(psychologist) interview her…made the call 7 weeks ago to set up an appointment…“we’ll get back to you we’re busy”…was the reply…still waiting…meanwhile my wife attends Mass every week…prays her Rosary every morning…prays the Divine Mercy every morning…reads her new Catholic bible every morning…attends classes at our local church…does everything she can because she has fallen in love with the Catholic church…and that is the compassion she gets in return…“we’ll get back to you we’re busy”…if she wasn’t so looking forward to becoming a Catholic I’d seriously consider finding another church.

 

[Convert1]

Congrats to your husband…my wife is still waiting…been going on 12 months…because her first marriage was so long ago there are only 2 witnesses left…one refused and told the diocese never to contact her again…one did reply…only one witness…not enough…she then had four witnesses who have known her for a considerable length of time fill out their depositions…still not good enough…she has to have a special witness…(psychologist) interview her…made the call 7 weeks ago to set up an appointment…“we’ll get back to you we’re busy”…was the reply…still waiting…meanwhile my wife attends Mass every week…prays her Rosary every morning…prays the Divine Mercy every morning…reads her new Catholic bible every morning…attends classes at our local church…does everything she can because she has fallen in love with the Catholic church…and that is the compassion she gets in return…“we’ll get back to you we’re busy”…if she wasn’t so looking forward to becoming a Catholic I’d seriously consider finding another church.

Have you spoken with a Canon Lawyer? I know that helped us greatly. Your priest probably knows one. My thing is, I just love the Catholic mass, and RCIA taught me so very much about the history of Catholicism, that I am genuinely in love with the Faith. I can’t imagine leaving as I have also been very devoted to my prayer and readings (similar to your wife). It’s just all so confusing and frustrating; with very little semblance of order from diocese to diocese. My future life in the church depends on what a five person panel thinks. I am culpable for a marriage that took place when I was a Protestant. (the same as if I had been raised Catholic) We were never raised to believe that second marriage effected your entrance into the church. Now, it matters completely. Boy, if I had only known. Sometimes it is all just so overwhelming.