Annulments/support group

[Peebo]

Have you spoken with a Canon Lawyer? I know that helped us greatly. Your priest probably knows one. My thing is, I just love the Catholic mass, and RCIA taught me so very much about the history of Catholicism, that I am genuinely in love with the Faith. I can’t imagine leaving as I have also been very devoted to my prayer and readings (similar to your wife). It’s just all so confusing and frustrating; with very little semblance of order from diocese to diocese. My future life in the church depends on what a five person panel thinks. I am culpable for a marriage that took place when I was a Protestant. (the same as if I had been raised Catholic) We were never raised to believe that second marriage effected your entrance into the church. Now, it matters completely. Boy, if I had only known. Sometimes it is all just so overwhelming.

We haven’t spoken to a canon lawyer…hoping that when this special witness finally contacts my wife that she’ll get some sort of outcome…my wife was/is Methodist…she felt the same when she went through RCIA…she couldn’t believe there was so much about Christianity she had never been taught or even heard about…she has been told she has at least 2 or 3 reasons why her first marriage would be regarded as invalid…I read on this site that someone said that her diocese allowed for only one witness for her annulment…the diocese my wife is going through wants 3…bit hard for a marriage that took place 47 years ago with all but 2 witnesses still living…and one refused to have anything to do with the Catholic Church…I understand how you feel about being a Protestant wanting to become Catholic…especially as Protestants don’t have…and aren’t taught that a second marriage is not allowed in the Catholic Church without an annulment…it’s like you’re now branded an adulterer for wanting to join the church…what annoys me so much is that my wife is doing all she can in the hope of becoming a good faithful Catholic because she loves the Catholic faith… it’s doesn’t show much compassion to those who have had to put pen to paper and relive a very painful and personal experience …and get told nothing back in return …only that it may or may not be granted…or even when it will be decided…I hope and pray that you will get a positive result…like I pray everyday my wife gets a her annulment too.

 

[Convert1]

We haven’t spoken to a canon lawyer…hoping that when this special witness finally contacts my wife that she’ll get some sort of outcome…my wife was/is Methodist…she felt the same when she went through RCIA…she couldn’t believe there was so much about Christianity she had never been taught or even heard about…she has been told she has at least 2 or 3 reasons why her first marriage would be regarded as invalid…I read on this site that someone said that her diocese allowed for only one witness for her annulment…the diocese my wife is going through wants 3…bit hard for a marriage that took place 47 years ago with all but 2 witnesses still living…and one refused to have anything to do with the Catholic Church…I understand how you feel about being a Protestant wanting to become Catholic…especially as Protestants don’t have…and aren’t taught that a second marriage is not allowed in the Catholic Church without an annulment…it’s like you’re now branded an adulterer for wanting to join the church…what annoys me so much is that my wife is doing all she can in the hope of becoming a good faithful Catholic because she loves the Catholic faith… it’s doesn’t show much compassion to those who have had to put pen to paper and relive a very painful and personal experience …and get told nothing back in return …only that it may or may not be granted…or even when it will be decided…I hope and pray that you will get a positive result…like I pray everyday my wife gets a her annulment too.

I am praying for you and your wife. I won’t say I understand completely; but I can certainly relate to your pain and frustration. May our Heavenly Father intervene in your lives and grant you peace and a positive outcome. God Bless You both!!!

 

[Guineviere]

Hello! I am posting here today to vent my frustrations…and more importantly…

Ask for Prayers!!!

First off, am I the only one here that is actually waiting for an annulment before I marry? Not judging, but family and friends (Catholics and non-Catholics) are pressuring me “run off to Vegas.” Ugh.

I am a forty-something divorced woman. My husband left me after 22 years. Divorce wasn’t even on my radar, don’t even believe in it. Yet it happened.

Fast forward…I was granted a declaration of nullity several years ago. It took 10 months, from start to finish, both courts. Today I am engaged to be married to a man I’ve been dating for four years. We were given the priest’s blessing to get engaged but just couldn’t set a date until his declaration of nullity is granted. He isn’t Catholic, so the fact that he is understanding of this is AMAZING!

Based on the facts leading up to his marriage, I have a clear conscious that his prior marriage was never sacramentally valid.

My frustration is that his is dragging. It is nearing the 10-month mark, all witness testimony was received 3 months ago. It took mine 2 weeks to be published and his is going on 3 months, same tribunal. I don’t see it being complete for at least another 6-8 months even though they claim the average time is 10-12 months.

There is so much pressure from so many to do the wrong thing, it’s maddening. I have people asking when the date is. Relatives wanting to make travel plans etc. I’m tired of feeling like I have to defend the process and my wishes. I’m tired of being advised to just move in together. I feel like my life has been in a holding pattern since my divorce. I am ready to move on with my life and I’m not getting any younger.

Again, prayers are much appreciated.

 

[Katheresa]

My husband is in the process of seeking an Annulment from his first marriage. He had his interview at the Diocesan Tribunal today. Does anyone know if the information he shared during his interview will be sent to his former spouse? Any/all feedback appreciated.

 

[His_helpmeet]

My husband is in the process of seeking an Annulment from his first marriage. He had his interview at the Diocesan Tribunal today. Does anyone know if the information he shared during his interview will be sent to his former spouse? Any/all feedback appreciated.

Hi Katheresa,

My understanding is that the information is NOT shared with the former spouse UNLESS that person specifically chooses to come and see it. After all the evidence is in, there will be a publication of acts. A decree will be issued, giving both parties a certain amount of time to come and review the evidence if they wish. It is NOT mandatory that they review the evidence (my DH chose not to when he pursued a declaration of nullity for his first marriage) and sometimes information may be redacted. All information received by the tribunal is considered confidential.

Dan, please correct me if I’m incorrect. (Dan is a canon lawyer and can provide more specific advice.)

 

[dans0622]

… Dan, please correct me if I’m incorrect. …

You are correct. No testimony is ever “sent” to either Party. It is only available for a limited time, at a Tribunal.

In my experience, the number of Parties (both petitioner and respondent) who actually read the testimony is maybe 5%. That’s not necessarily a good thing but is reality.

Dan

 

[dans0622]

…
My frustration is that his is dragging. It is nearing the 10-month mark, all witness testimony was received 3 months ago. It took mine 2 weeks to be published and his is going on 3 months, same tribunal. I don’t see it being complete for at least another 6-8 months even though they claim the average time is 10-12 months.

…

Hello,

Even within the same Tribunal, there can be such a difference. It may just be a matter of the Judge assigned to the case. He should not be afraid to call the Tribunal and see what is going on.

Dan

 

[Nic1099]

Hello! I am posting here today to vent my frustrations…and more importantly…

Ask for Prayers!!!

First off, am I the only one here that is actually waiting for an annulment before I marry? Not judging, but family and friends (Catholics and non-Catholics) are pressuring me “run off to Vegas.” Ugh.

I am a forty-something divorced woman. My husband left me after 22 years. Divorce wasn’t even on my radar, don’t even believe in it. Yet it happened.

Fast forward…I was granted a declaration of nullity several years ago. It took 10 months, from start to finish, both courts. Today I am engaged to be married to a man I’ve been dating for four years. We were given the priest’s blessing to get engaged but just couldn’t set a date until his declaration of nullity is granted. He isn’t Catholic, so the fact that he is understanding of this is AMAZING!

Based on the facts leading up to his marriage, I have a clear conscious that his prior marriage was never sacramentally valid.

My frustration is that his is dragging. It is nearing the 10-month mark, all witness testimony was received 3 months ago. It took mine 2 weeks to be published and his is going on 3 months, same tribunal. I don’t see it being complete for at least another 6-8 months even though they claim the average time is 10-12 months.

There is so much pressure from so many to do the wrong thing, it’s maddening. I have people asking when the date is. Relatives wanting to make travel plans etc. I’m tired of feeling like I have to defend the process and my wishes. I’m tired of being advised to just move in together. I feel like my life has been in a holding pattern since my divorce. I am ready to move on with my life and I’m not getting any younger.

Again, prayers are much appreciated.

Praying and thinking of you all during the nullity process.

 

[Katheresa]

Many many thanks to both of you for your responses. I am quite relieved to hear this. My husband’s former wife and I have become good friends over the years, and i would hate for her to be embarrassed or hurt in any way. Thanks again and God Bless.

 

[BelleFL]

I wish I would have found this website/board sooner. It’s been helpful, yet also frustrating to read people’s stories and timeline for their annulment. It sounds like different dioceses vary somewhat with their submittal process which has made it even more difficult for me to gauge how long I can expect to wait, what the next steps are, what is expected of me, etc…

Below is my current timeline (I live in Florida):

Oct 2014 -Submitted my Questionnaire (15 pages typed) and additional required paperwork
Nov 2014 - Tribunal Received all 3 Witness Questionnaires
January 2015 - Received a letter from the Tribunal asking if I had anything more to add - I reached out to my Priest and Advocate and after speaking with the Tribunal he was informed that this letter was in place of my interview since I currently live 7 hours away.
February 2015 - Received my Publication of Acts letter from the Tribunal

Originally I was told 9-12 months but like a few of you have mentioned, I am unsure as to when the “start” time begins (submittal of paperwork or receipt of Publication of Acts letter?). I am trying to stay positive but some days it is a little difficult.

 

[MJJean]

Originally I was told 9-12 months but like a few of you have mentioned, **I am unsure as to when the “start” time begins **(submittal of paperwork or receipt of Publication of Acts letter?). I am trying to stay positive but some days it is a little difficult.

My Tribunal said that annulments take approximately 12-18 months starting from when the case is accepted. Mine took about 21 months to complete.

 

[PPPaul1]

Hi I am still waiting for the response from my local tribunal of my annulment. My ex wife left me for another man she met online. A month after she locked me out of the house she had him living there with her. She is now married to him outside of the Catholic Church and has a child with him. In the mean time I have met a Lutheran woman with whom I have built a great friendship with that has led to us dating. “Which I know I shouldn’t be doing” I am trying to figure out how to return our relationship to just a friendship. I really like this woman and don’t want to push her away yet at the same time do not know how to proceed. We are both 34 and neither of us have children but desperately want children. Due to medical conditions and age her clock is ticking and she is struggling with waiting for the Catholic Church to deem me able to marry her. She is a good hearted woman but also strong and stubborn in her faith. IF anyone has been in a similar situation I’d appreciate your advice. If not I would definitely appreciate any prayers you can offer.

 

[Convert1]

I wish I would have found this website/board sooner. It’s been helpful, yet also frustrating to read people’s stories and timeline for their annulment. It sounds like different dioceses vary somewhat with their submittal process which has made it even more difficult for me to gauge how long I can expect to wait, what the next steps are, what is expected of me, etc…

Below is my current timeline (I live in Florida):

Oct 2014 -Submitted my Questionnaire (15 pages typed) and additional required paperwork
Nov 2014 - Tribunal Received all 3 Witness Questionnaires
January 2015 - Received a letter from the Tribunal asking if I had anything more to add - I reached out to my Priest and Advocate and after speaking with the Tribunal he was informed that this letter was in place of my interview since I currently live 7 hours away.
February 2015 - Received my Publication of Acts letter from the Tribunal

Originally I was told 9-12 months but like a few of you have mentioned, I am unsure as to when the “start” time begins (submittal of paperwork or receipt of Publication of Acts letter?). I am trying to stay positive but some days it is a little difficult.

Hello Belle:
I hear what you are saying and I can so relate to your frustration. I could understand a 21-24 month process if your ex-spouse responds and argues the petition. However, if witnesses are credible and everything is complete, it makes no sense that people wait six months to a year for the First decision after the Publication of the Acts. It is my understanding that once the Publication of the Acts is complete; the Defender of the Bond and your Advocate both submit final “arguments” , for no better term, prior to the First Decision from the vicar (judge). Dan can help me here if that’s not correct. It seems this process is one of the areas where the case bogs with most of my reading and research. Depending on the staffing of the Tribunals themselves and the schedules of the staff; this seems to take a while. Gathering adequate testimony is another area that may delay things. My husband’s case took eight months start to finish. (His ex did not respond) He received an affirmative First decision one month after his Publication of the Acts.Mine has a similar timeframe as yours and I am waiting just like you for a First Decision. Of course, he will have to receive his Second Decision but those are rarely different than the first. Hopefully, the next synod will streamline some of this. You can always call the Tribunal. However, some Tribunals actually tell you not to call them, which is ridiculous in my opinion. All I can say is, I pray. A lot. Every day. It’s what helps me get by.

 

[Convert1]

Hello! I am posting here today to vent my frustrations…and more importantly…

Ask for Prayers!!!

First off, am I the only one here that is actually waiting for an annulment before I marry? Not judging, but family and friends (Catholics and non-Catholics) are pressuring me “run off to Vegas.” Ugh.

I am a forty-something divorced woman. My husband left me after 22 years. Divorce wasn’t even on my radar, don’t even believe in it. Yet it happened.

Fast forward…I was granted a declaration of nullity several years ago. It took 10 months, from start to finish, both courts. Today I am engaged to be married to a man I’ve been dating for four years. We were given the priest’s blessing to get engaged but just couldn’t set a date until his declaration of nullity is granted. He isn’t Catholic, so the fact that he is understanding of this is AMAZING!

Based on the facts leading up to his marriage, I have a clear conscious that his prior marriage was never sacramentally valid.

My frustration is that his is dragging. It is nearing the 10-month mark, all witness testimony was received 3 months ago. It took mine 2 weeks to be published and his is going on 3 months, same tribunal. I don’t see it being complete for at least another 6-8 months even though they claim the average time is 10-12 months.

There is so much pressure from so many to do the wrong thing, it’s maddening. I have people asking when the date is. Relatives wanting to make travel plans etc. I’m tired of feeling like I have to defend the process and my wishes. I’m tired of being advised to just move in together. I feel like my life has been in a holding pattern since my divorce. I am ready to move on with my life and I’m not getting any younger.

Again, prayers are much appreciated.

Praying for you!
Stay with your principals! I wish I had known I was going to convert to Catholicism 15 years ago before I married my second husband! God has a way of working all things out the way they are supposed to be.

 

[dans0622]

…However, if witnesses are credible and everything is complete, it makes no sense that people wait six months to a year for the First decision after the Publication of the Acts. It is my understanding that once the Publication of the Acts is complete; the Defender of the Bond and your Advocate both submit final “arguments” , for no better term, prior to the First Decision from the vicar (judge). … It seems this process is one of the areas where the case bogs with most of my reading and research. Depending on the staffing of the Tribunals themselves and the schedules of the staff; this seems to take a while. … Hopefully, the next synod will streamline some of this. …

Yes, there can sometimes be a long delay between “Conclusion” (the formal step after “Publication”) and the Decision of the Judge. The typical reason for any such delay is the Judge(s) is/are not writing the Sentence because of other commitments, other cases… The Defender/Advocate’s briefs might take some time, since they can respond to each other, but this does not usually happen. Almost all the time, they say what they say and don’t bother to respond to the other’s statement. Actually, Advocates don’t always offer an argument. The Defender is obliged to make observations, though.

Regarding “streamlining”, there is nothing that can be done to “streamline” the time between Conclusion and the Sentence. There are no steps that can be removed or modified. The Defender and Advocate have to be able to offer their arguments/observations. After that, all that is left is the Decision. That, obviously, can’t be taken away.

I put something on my blog a while back about the nullity process and how long it should actually take. At times, I get the impression that people think the process is full of all sorts of useless and time-consuming procedural hurdles that serve no practical purpose except to result in troublesome delays. Well, there really aren’t any such hurdles. In my opinion, we need more Judges (or current Judges be able to dedicate more time to tribunal work). This would eliminate the vast majority of delays and make it possible for the process work the way it is supposed to work.

Dan

 

[Guineviere]

Hi I am still waiting for the response from my local tribunal of my annulment. My ex wife left me for another man she met online. A month after she locked me out of the house she had him living there with her. She is now married to him outside of the Catholic Church and has a child with him. In the mean time I have met a Lutheran woman with whom I have built a great friendship with that has led to us dating. “Which I know I shouldn’t be doing” I am trying to figure out how to return our relationship to just a friendship. I really like this woman and don’t want to push her away yet at the same time do not know how to proceed. We are both 34 and neither of us have children but desperately want children. Due to medical conditions and age her clock is ticking and she is struggling with waiting for the Catholic Church to deem me able to marry her. She is a good hearted woman but also strong and stubborn in her faith. IF anyone has been in a similar situation I’d appreciate your advice. If not I would definitely appreciate any prayers you can offer.

Prayers for you! In my situation, he left, filed for divorce, and remarried all within 6 months. I understand going through divorce against your will and trying to move on with your life and doing things the correct way.

I was told by several priests that it is okay to date. I was told I could get engaged but a date couldn’t be set until both of our marriages are declared null. Mine was completed years ago, we are waiting on his. It’s difficult. It feels like your in a holding pattern waiting to start the next chapter.

It will be worth the wait. Nothing worth while comes easily.

 

[Convert1]

Regarding “streamlining”, there is nothing that can be done to “streamline” the time between Conclusion and the Sentence. There are no steps that can be removed or modified. The Defender and Advocate have to be able to offer their arguments/observations. After that, all that is left is the Decision. That, obviously, can’t be taken away.

Thanks Dan. I obviously wasn’t very clear. I meant streamline the whole process. And of course, staffing Tribunals adequately, especially with more judges would be helpful. Perhaps a time limit between Conclusion and the Sentence; would that be possible within Canon Law?

 

[dans0622]

… Perhaps a time limit between Conclusion and the Sentence; would that be possible within Canon Law?

Hello,

Yes, it would surely be possible. I think that would be a good thing–it might not make every Judge, all the time, finish the case within the time period but it is good to have at least a guideline. As of now, there is no clear, direct guideline.

In the case involving a panel of Judges, the process is:

–the briefs are filed by advocate/defender
–Judges are supposed to meet to discuss the case and come to a decision, but no time-frame is given in law as far as when this meeting should take place: a week later? two weeks? month?
–once they come to a decision the judgment (sentence) is to be written within a month.

So, you see that the case is decided before the Sentence is written. This may seem odd but the Judges are supposed to come to that meeting having reviewed the case and written their own conclusions. They discuss the matter to see what each thinks of the case and, if warranted, a Judge can change his mind about the outcome.

If the case is before a single Judge, there is no discussion of the case so he should proceed to writing the Sentence. In my opinion, that should be done within a month or so, since that is how long the collegiate panel has to finish the Sentence.

As many have seen, however, there is often a much longer delay between the conclusion and decision…

Here is what I wrote on the blog: anotherbrickinthelaw.blogspot.com/2014/10/how-long-must-annulment-take.html

Dan

 

[sfleet]

I’m not sure if this has been addressed or not and perhaps Dan could provide some insight.

Annulments is one of the most complicated topics to understand when converting to the Catholic church and to be honest I don’t think many Catholics understand it either.

With that said what are the statistics on convert annulment rates? What I mean is that most non-Catholics don’t have the same understanding of marriage that the Catholic church teaches. So does that mean that any convert that has had a protestant marriage the annulment gets rubber stamped? While I don’t think that is the answer I would also be hard pressed to believe that many non-practicing protestants have ‘valid’ marriages.

 

[dans0622]

… With that said what are the statistics on convert annulment rates? …

Hello,

Overall, the vast majority of accepted cases result in an “affirmative” decision. That’s certain. Some Judges, though, are more likely to find in the “negative.”

That being said, I know of no statistics that take the religious affiliation of the Parties into account.

Dan