Annulments/support group

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One thing to remember when waiting for the process to go through is that there is one Tribunal (the court judging the case) and numerous cases. When any paperwork comes back to the Tribunal it goes on the bottom of the stack for that portion (initial request, witness responses, etc.) so if there are a lot of cases pending at the time there can be varying delays throughout the process.
 
Pardon my lack of understanding Dan, but what do you mean by the below quote…it just depends on the judge? I understand that every case is a unique case, I guess that is why it is difficult to wrap my mind around. The fact that there aren’t clear cut decisions makes it hard, for me at-least, to understand the decisions that are made.
Some Judges, though, are more likely to find in the “negative.”
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sfleet said:
I’m not sure if this has been addressed or not and perhaps Dan could provide some insight.

Annulments is one of the most complicated topics to understand when converting to the Catholic church and to be honest I don’t think many Catholics understand it either.

With that said what are the statistics on convert annulment rates? What I mean is that most non-Catholics don’t have the same understanding of marriage that the Catholic church teaches. So does that mean that any convert that has had a protestant marriage the annulment gets rubber stamped? While I don’t think that is the answer I would also be hard pressed to believe that many non-practicing protestants have ‘valid’ marriages.
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Each case is judged on its own merit. Even for cases of those who are not Catholic, for a judgment of nullity there must be some defect ( intention against children, lack of intent to be faithful, lack of intent for a perpetual marriage, lack of maturity, etc.,) at the time of marriage.
 
sfleet said:
Pardon my lack of understanding Dan, but what do you mean by the below quote…it just depends on the judge? I understand that every case is a unique case, I guess that is why it is difficult to wrap my mind around. The fact that there aren’t clear cut decisions makes it hard, for me at-least, to understand the decisions that are made.
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Hello,

Yes, it can depend on the Judge. Every Judge has to examine the evidence and come to his own conclusion. Sometimes, the evidence is such that all Judges would come to the same decision. Other times, it’s not that clear and you can have a 2-1 decision on a case. Or, one group of Judges can disagree with another. That is not too common but it does happen. The same is true in civil courts, before civil juries/judges.

Marriage cases, at least those regarding a matter of marital consent, are not a matter of mathematical or scientific certitude.

Dan
 
The fact that all dioceses utilize different forms and have a different approach to the steps in the process, makes it very confusing, as well.
I agree though, that most cases that are accepted by the Tribunal receive affirmatives. The witness testimony being weak is generally the only obstacle. And even then the Tribunal attempts to gather more evidence to support the grounds. Denying someone the ability to enter into full communion with the Catholic Church because of a negative decision of annulment is a very grave matter. I think it is equally as serious as the requirement placed on an individual to obtain an annulment of the first marriage to re-marry in the Church.
 
Guineviere said:
Hello! I am posting here today to vent my frustrations…and more importantly…

Ask for Prayers!!!

First off, am I the only one here that is actually waiting for an annulment before I marry? Not judging, but family and friends (Catholics and non-Catholics) are pressuring me “run off to Vegas.” Ugh.

I am a forty-something divorced woman. My husband left me after 22 years. Divorce wasn’t even on my radar, don’t even believe in it. Yet it happened.

Fast forward…I was granted a declaration of nullity several years ago. It took 10 months, from start to finish, both courts. Today I am engaged to be married to a man I’ve been dating for four years. We were given the priest’s blessing to get engaged but just couldn’t set a date until his declaration of nullity is granted. He isn’t Catholic, so the fact that he is understanding of this is AMAZING!

Based on the facts leading up to his marriage, I have a clear conscious that his prior marriage was never sacramentally valid.

My frustration is that his is dragging. It is nearing the 10-month mark, all witness testimony was received 3 months ago. It took mine 2 weeks to be published and his is going on 3 months, same tribunal. I don’t see it being complete for at least another 6-8 months even though they claim the average time is 10-12 months.

There is so much pressure from so many to do the wrong thing, it’s maddening. I have people asking when the date is. Relatives wanting to make travel plans etc. I’m tired of feeling like I have to defend the process and my wishes. I’m tired of being advised to just move in together. I feel like my life has been in a holding pattern since my divorce. I am ready to move on with my life and I’m not getting any younger.

Again, prayers are much appreciated.
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It is very good of you to wait for the decision to get married. We choose to go ahead with getting married as this is my husbands first marriage and I have a clear conscience with regard to my marriage. the problem at the first hearing was that I had insufficient evidence. When my husband proposed to me at that point I realised I should appeal so that we could look forward to a time in the future when we could be consolidated. That was in October 2013 when I wrote to the judicial vicar for my diocese asking about an appeal. I heard about a year later that the appeal had been upheld by the first tribunal and so it is now in the vatican for its second hearing waiting for an attorney to be appointed. (as I cannot afford to pay for one that I chose myself), My question is how long will it take now? My husband would like to be baptised and is holding back till the result for fear of being refused.
 
rose2 said:
…I heard about a year later that the appeal had been upheld by the first tribunal and so it is now in the vatican for its second hearing waiting for an attorney to be appointed. (as I cannot afford to pay for one that I chose myself), My question is how long will it take now? My husband would like to be baptised and is holding back till the result for fear of being refused.
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Hello,

Once a case gets to the Roman Rota, you can expect a few years of waiting. It might be less but don’t expect it to be. They have been trying (and succeeding) to speed things up over there but it is still a long wait.

The most important thing for you to do is make sure you are aware of what the Rota is expecting of you. Sometimes, cases sit dormant at the Rota for months and years because Petitioners do not “pursue” the case. Your Advocate should be able to help. Also, don’t be afraid to ask your Advocate to translate whatever communication you might receive (it tends to be in Latin, if it involves official documents).

Dan
 
Thanks Dan, at least I know not to hold my breath and to make sure I respond to any communications. Rose2
 
Hi there,

My husband is in the process of trying to get his first marriage annulled and he has already had his interview at the Tribunal. My husband’s former wife has been extremely helpful (providing documents, etc.), but she does not want to participate at all in the process beyond that. My problem is that the tribunal keeps reaching out to her and telling her that her (name removed by moderator)ut is needed to “complete the testimony” and she is getting more and more frustrated. This is causing tension between my husband, his former wife and me. Does anyone know how many times they are going to reach out to her? It’s already causing some major discomfort among everyone involved. Also, there are children involved, and the tension among us all isn’t going anyone any good. HELP!
 
Hi there,

My husband is in the process of trying to get his first marriage annulled and he has already had his interview at the Tribunal. My husband’s former wife has been extremely helpful (providing documents, etc.), but she does not want to participate at all in the process beyond that. My problem is that the tribunal keeps reaching out to her and telling her that her (name removed by moderator)ut is needed to “complete the testimony” and she is getting more and more frustrated. This is causing tension between my husband, his former wife and me. Does anyone know how many times they are going to reach out to her? It’s already causing some major discomfort among everyone involved. Also, there are children involved, and the tension among us all isn’t doing anyone any good. HELP!
 
Katheresa said:
Hi there,

My husband is in the process of trying to get his first marriage annulled and he has already had his interview at the Tribunal. My husband’s former wife has been extremely helpful (providing documents, etc.), but she does not want to participate at all in the process beyond that. My problem is that the tribunal keeps reaching out to her and telling her that her (name removed by moderator)ut is needed to “complete the testimony” and she is getting more and more frustrated. This is causing tension between my husband, his former wife and me. Does anyone know how many times they are going to reach out to her? It’s already causing some major discomfort among everyone involved. Also, there are children involved, and the tension among us all isn’t doing anyone any good. HELP!
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Can you have her submit something in writing stating that she will not participate further and that the Tribunal should stop contacting her? I thought they were to leaver a person alone if that person said s/he was not going to participate.
 
Dear Sadpanda2,

Thank you so much for your response. I did suggest that she do that with the most recent piece of correspondence from the Tribunal. I just hope they honor her request.
 
Katheresa said:
Dear Sadpanda2,

Thank you so much for your response. I did suggest that she do that with the most recent piece of correspondence from the Tribunal. I just hope they honor her request.
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If the Tribunal has put forth Proposed Grounds, she could include a sentence such as “I agree that our marriage was likely null for at least the reasons stated in the Proposed Grounds and in saying so my testimony is concluded.”
 
Katheresa said:
Dear Sadpanda2,

Thank you so much for your response. I did suggest that she do that with the most recent piece of correspondence from the Tribunal. I just hope they honor her request.
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Hello,

There are a certain number a times a Respondent must be contacted: the initial “citation”, formulation of grounds, notification of Sentence. So, at least three times.

It is always good to remember that people working in Tribunals are very capable of making a mistake. If this person has said “don’t talk to me anymore”, maybe that statement was missed. Maybe it failed to get entered into the computer program which kicks out documents/letters automatically. Maybe there was an error in the computer program itself.

The point is, yes, the person should simply inform the Tribunal that she would like to have no further contact. If she already did, do it again. I have never heard of any Tribunal which purposefully did not “honor” a person’s request to be left alone.

She should know, though, that she will still be notified of the Sentence and, if not already determined, the grounds (at least, she should be informed about these two steps…).

Dan
 
BelleFL said:
I wish I would have found this website/board sooner. It’s been helpful, yet also frustrating to read people’s stories and timeline for their annulment. It sounds like different dioceses vary somewhat with their submittal process which has made it even more difficult for me to gauge how long I can expect to wait, what the next steps are, what is expected of me, etc…

Below is my current timeline (I live in Florida):

Oct 2014 -Submitted my Questionnaire (15 pages typed) and additional required paperwork
Nov 2014 - Tribunal Received all 3 Witness Questionnaires
January 2015 - Received a letter from the Tribunal asking if I had anything more to add - I reached out to my Priest and Advocate and after speaking with the Tribunal he was informed that this letter was in place of my interview since I currently live 7 hours away.
February 2015 - Received my Publication of Acts letter from the Tribunal

Originally I was told 9-12 months but like a few of you have mentioned, I am unsure as to when the “start” time begins (submittal of paperwork or receipt of Publication of Acts letter?). I am trying to stay positive but some days it is a little difficult.
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June 20, 2015 - I received a letter from the Tribunal stating they were like the (name removed by moderator)ut of an “Expert Witness”. So I am now scheduled to see the psychiatrist they recommended in 2 weeks (this was first available).

Does anyone have experience with seeing an Expert Witness? What to expect? How long after your appointment with the Expert Witness did it take for you to receive your next correspondence from the Tribunal?
 
BelleFL said:
June 20, 2015 - I received a letter from the Tribunal stating they were like the (name removed by moderator)ut of an “Expert Witness”. So I am now scheduled to see the psychiatrist they recommended in 2 weeks (this was first available).

Does anyone have experience with seeing an Expert Witness? What to expect? How long after your appointment with the Expert Witness did it take for you to receive your next correspondence from the Tribunal?
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We also live in Florida…my wife called to make an appointment with the expert witness…she was told they’d get back to her to set up an appointment…that was over 2 months ago…still nothing
 
Peebo said:
We also live in Florida…my wife called to make an appointment with the expert witness…she was told they’d get back to her to set up an appointment…that was over 2 months ago…still nothing
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Yikes! Did she call back again? I received a call back from the Expert Witness office same day. What does her timeline look like compared to mine?

I will pray that she receives a call back soon.
 
BelleFL said:
…
Does anyone have experience with seeing an Expert Witness? What to expect? How long after your appointment with the Expert Witness did it take for you to receive your next correspondence from the Tribunal?
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Hello,

Don’t be afraid to call the Tribunal and ask what is involved in the meeting with the Expert. I could tell you what I have usually seen but there might be variations. So, I’d ask the Tribunal.

As for timing, again, you can ask the Tribunal what to expect. They may tell you “we’ll see how it goes” or some other non-committal sort of answer…which is often all they can say.

Dan
 
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