Annulments

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CMatt25 said:
So before an annulment is granted, a couple could have had a marriage ceremony performed in a Catholic church many yrs before
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It would be highly unusual for the marriage ceremony to be performed in a Catholic church if one of the couple were not free to marry. Each person would be carefully questioned about any previous marriage - only by an outright lie would they be permitted to undergo a Catholic wedding ceremony. No Catholic minister will witness a marriage if he is aware of a previous marriage which has not been examined and absolved. The only way to accomplish such a marriage is to lie to the minister.

If a marriage begins in a lie, it’s not much of a marriage.
 
CMatt25 said:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9174776&postcount=2

So before an annulment is granted, a couple could have had a marriage ceremony performed in a Catholic church many yrs before, could have been living as a married couple for decades, could have produced many offspring, and yet were not validly married? So for all that time they’d have been living in sin?
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No, they were not living in sin, as they were considered to be validly married at the time. Nor are their children illegitimate.
 
Peggy is right. If a couple is married in the Church, they are not living in sin. The entire time they were together the marriage was presumed to be valid.
 
They weren’t living in sin… the marriage bond just never formed, the mark on their soul was never there so while they were ‘married’ legally, they were never spiritually one. That is why marriage is permanent when it is done right, because they become one person.
 
DavidFilmer said:
It would be highly unusual for the marriage ceremony to be performed in a Catholic church if one of the couple were not free to marry. Each person would be carefully questioned about any previous marriage - only by an outright lie would they be permitted to undergo a Catholic wedding ceremony. No Catholic minister will witness a marriage if he is aware of a previous marriage which has not been examined and absolved. The only way to accomplish such a marriage is to lie to the minister.

If a marriage begins in a lie, it’s not much of a marriage.
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That much is true, but previous marriage is not the only reason an attempt at marriage would be invalid. For instance, if one or the other party is pressured into marriage (e.g. due to pregnancy or parental insistence) thereby decreasing his or her consent, the couple might not be validly married. They both may have been free of a previous bond, but due to pressure to marry, they may not be validly married simply because one party was not able to give full consent to the marriage.
 
CMatt25 said:
So before an annulment is granted, a couple could have had a marriage ceremony performed in a Catholic church many yrs before, could have been living as a married couple for decades, could have produced many offspring, and yet were not validly married?
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Yes, that is certainly possible.

It is also possible for such a couple who started out in an invalid marriage to make that marriage valid if the defect ceases or by a new act of consent. This can be done in the internal forum.
CMatt25 said:
So for all that time they’d have been living in sin?
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No. They were living in a putative marriage if at least one of them entered it in good faith. Now if both of them entered in bad faith and knew their marriage was invalid, yes they may have culpability for never correcting the situation and continuing to live as husband and wife.
 
1ke brings a very valid point to light. If one of them entered the marriage with the right heart, the right mind, the right belief… then they weren’t living in sin… but it’s possible that one or both WERE living in sin. Especially if they entered the marriage covenant thinking something like “Ah, if I find someone better, I’ll just divorce him/her and marry them.” That would indeed be a sin. To use marriage as a convenient way to ‘hook up’ or to get something out of it would be a grave matter, imo.
 
DavidFilmer said:
It would be highly unusual for the marriage ceremony to be performed in a Catholic church if one of the couple were not free to marry. Each person would be carefully questioned about any previous marriage - only by an outright lie would they be permitted to undergo a Catholic wedding ceremony. No Catholic minister will witness a marriage if he is aware of a previous marriage which has not been examined and absolved. The only way to accomplish such a marriage is to lie to the minister.

If a marriage begins in a lie, it’s not much of a marriage.
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I’ve no doubt each would be questioned about a previous marriage. But I think others here have explained there are other reasons why a marriage might be ruled invalid by the Church.
 
bmullins said:
They weren’t living in sin… the marriage bond just never formed, the mark on their soul was never there so while they were ‘married’ legally, they were never spiritually one. That is why marriage is permanent when it is done right, because they become one person.
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If 2 Catholics who were later granted an annulment but originally had a marriage ceremony performed in the Church by a Catholic priest are married legally, are 2 Catholics who don’t practice the faith fully and who have a Protestant pastor perform their wedding ceremony also legally married in the eyes of the Church?
 
CMatt25 said:
If 2 Catholics who were later granted an annulment but originally had a marriage ceremony performed in the Church by a Catholic priest are married legally, are 2 Catholics who don’t practice the faith fully and who have a Protestant pastor perform their wedding ceremony also legally married in the eyes of the Church?
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Why would two Catholics have a Protestant wedding, even if they don’t practice the faith fully? People get married where they go to church.

If they both had permission from their Bishops, it would be a marriage in the eyes of the Church. But I would expect that would be unlikely. Since both are Catholic, there would be no reason to be married elsewhere.
 
CMatt25 said:
are 2 Catholics who don’t practice the faith fully and who have a Protestant pastor perform their wedding ceremony also legally married in the eyes of the Church?
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No.

Two Catholics who marry outside Catholic form are in an invalid marriage until they convalidate it according to Catholic form.
 
Incomplete said:
If they both had permission from their Bishops, it would be a marriage in the eyes of the Church.
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Dispensation from form can be granted when a Catholic marries a non-Catholic.

Two Catholics marrying each other cannot be dispense from Catholic form.
 
**In short, yes. **

Not true.

Annulments are not for everyone.
 
1ke said:
Dispensation from form can be granted when a Catholic marries a non-Catholic.

Two Catholics marrying each other cannot be dispense from Catholic form.
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That doesn’t surprise me. It would make no sense to dispense them.
 
CMatt25 said:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9174776&postcount=2

So before an annulment is granted, a couple could have had a marriage ceremony performed in a Catholic church many yrs before, could have been living as a married couple for decades, could have produced many offspring, and yet were not validly married? So for all that time they’d have been living in sin?
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I would say the the marriage was illicit. Since the annulment is eventually granted, the first marriage never took place. There was never a marriage even when there was the appearance of a marriage. Therefore, I say, the marriage was valid but not licit.

As for living in sin, yes… because they were disobedient to the forms and procedures put in place by the duly authorized Church of Christ to protect the sacrament of marriage.
 
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