annulments

[tossolul]

How can a man and woman who have been married for 30 years, and had 3 children possibly be given an annulment? How can someone possibly say that that marraige was invalid after having been together for almost half of a human life and sharing 3 children together? Wouldn’t that in a way be saying that the 3 children who are now married with their own children were invalid also? HEre they thought they had a valid family, and a real mom and dad who were husband and wife, but then 20-30 years later they are told …Oh, I guess your mom and dad really weren’t married for those 30 years, We were wrong? How can you tell a child that?

Does it seem like too many annulments seem to be granted, and for the wrong reasons? In this case the reason the annulment was looked into was because the man wanted to not only seperate from his wife, but the reason was to be married to another woman. I don’t know if that was what was told to the tribunal, but that was the intent. Whatever happened to toughing it out- to not giving into your own desires, but sacrificing because you know that you made a promise to God. what ever happened to when your marraige is in trouble you get together and pray to God for Him to help the love return? I know this can work. I’ve seen it happen. What good is making a promise to God, if you know there is a way to get out of it? There is never (IMO) a reason to break a promise you make to God. Prayer is always there to help you make it through. God will never give you more than you can handle- as long as your asking for His help, you can make it through. Why are so many annulments granted? Divorce is wrecking our society. How are children supposed to grow up knowing what True Unconditional Love is, when they are not taught it by their parents! TUL would mean that you stick through it through better or worse…JUST LIKE THE VOWS SAY.

 

[1ke]

tossolul:

How can a man and woman who have been married for 30 years, and had 3 children possibly be given an annulment?

A decree of nullity determines a Sacrament did not take place at the time the vows were said due to one or more impediments. The duration of the marriage and the number of children has no bearing on the validity of the marriage.

tossolul:

How can someone possibly say that that marraige was invalid after having been together for almost half of a human life and sharing 3 children together?

Again, duration and number of children have no bearing on whether or not a Sacrament occured at the time the vows were exchanged or on any impediments that existed.

tossolul:

Wouldn’t that in a way be saying that the 3 children who are now married with their own children were invalid also?

No it is not. This makes no sense. Do you mean “invalid” as in “illegitimate” or as in “shouldn’t exist”? Neither is valid b/c an annulment does not say a civil marriage never existed, it determines only if a Sacrament existed.

tossolul:

HEre they thought they had a valid family, and a real mom and dad who were husband and wife, but then 20-30 years later they are told …Oh, I guess your mom and dad really weren’t married for those 30 years, We were wrong?

No, this is not what a decree of nullity says at all. A decree of nullity is a finding of the Sacramentality only.

tossolul:

How can you tell a child that?

Clearly this is a personal issue for you. Perhaps getting the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster would help you. It explains what a decree of nullity is, and what it isn’t. A decree of nullity has no bearing on you-- it has only to do with a defect or impediment at the time of the vows. My own parents’ marriage was declared null. It has no impact on me at all.

tossolul:

Does it seem like too many annulments seem to be granted, and for the wrong reasons?

Any decree of nullity granted is based on findings of valid grounds-- so in that sense… no. Are many more people applying for them? Yes.

tossolul:

In this case the reason the annulment was looked into was because the man wanted to not only seperate from his wife, but the reason was to be married to another woman.

A civil divorce precedes an examination by a tribunal, and in many cases it is because someone wishes to marry. Not always however.

tossolul:

I don’t know if that was what was told to the tribunal, but that was the intent.

It would not matter as it has no bearing on the case.

tossolul:

Whatever happened to toughing it out- to not giving into your own desires, but sacrificing because you know that you made a promise to God.

This is very personal. There are many valid reasons for seeking to determine whether the marriage was Sacramental. No, I don’t think that every person should remain in an invalid marriage. In an invalid marriage there was no binding promise made before God due to one or more defects.

tossolul:

what ever happened to when your marraige is in trouble you get together and pray to God for Him to help the love return? I know this can work. I’ve seen it happen. What good is making a promise to God, if you know there is a way to get out of it?

Again, this is obviously a personal hurt for you-- but you cannot assume that this was a decision made lightly or without prayer. A decree of nullity is not a “way out” of anything-- it is certainly not guaranteed in any case, and it’s not a loophole. It’s a valid process of the Church to determine the Sacramentality of the marriage. Unfortunately, there are many people who enter into marriage with a defect of consent or some other defect.

tossolul:

There is never (IMO) a reason to break a promise you make to God. Prayer is always there to help you make it through. God will never give you more than you can handle- as long as your asking for His help, you can make it through. Why are so many annulments granted? Divorce is wrecking our society. How are children supposed to grow up knowing what True Unconditional Love is, when they are not taught it by their parents! TUL would mean that you stick through it through better or worse…JUST LIKE THE VOWS SAY.

Please get counseling. You are dealing with a lot of hurt. You seem to have a lot of anger at your parents and anger at your church. There are decrees of nullity granted because there are many marriages that are not Sacramental for a variety of reasons. Yes, I agree that there are many-- and that there is much work to be done in educating those who seek marriage in the church prior to that marriage taking place.

 

[John_Higgins]

tossolul:

How can a man and woman who have been married for 30 years, and had 3 children possibly be given an annulment?

This sounds exactly like the second half of the Dr. Phil show today. He also had Dr. Edward Peters on to speak about Canon Law. One thing I thought was pretty cool was Dr. Phil kept referring to the Catholic Church as the Church, just like we do. I thought it was a fine segment.

John

 

[stanley123]

tossolul:

How can a man and woman who have been married for 30 years, and had 3 children possibly be given an annulment? How can someone possibly say that that marraige was invalid after having been together for almost half of a human life and sharing 3 children together? Wouldn’t that in a way be saying that the 3 children who are now married with their own children were invalid also? HEre they thought they had a valid family, and a real mom and dad who were husband and wife, but then 20-30 years later they are told …Oh, I guess your mom and dad really weren’t married for those 30 years, We were wrong? How can you tell a child that?

Does it seem like too many annulments seem to be granted, and for the wrong reasons? In this case the reason the annulment was looked into was because the man wanted to not only seperate from his wife, but the reason was to be married to another woman. I don’t know if that was what was told to the tribunal, but that was the intent. Whatever happened to toughing it out- to not giving into your own desires, but sacrificing because you know that you made a promise to God. what ever happened to when your marraige is in trouble you get together and pray to God for Him to help the love return? I know this can work. I’ve seen it happen. What good is making a promise to God, if you know there is a way to get out of it? There is never (IMO) a reason to break a promise you make to God. Prayer is always there to help you make it through. God will never give you more than you can handle- as long as your asking for His help, you can make it through. Why are so many annulments granted? Divorce is wrecking our society. How are children supposed to grow up knowing what True Unconditional Love is, when they are not taught it by their parents! TUL would mean that you stick through it through better or worse…JUST LIKE THE VOWS SAY.

Just to give my personal opinion on it, I would say that you are absolutely correct on each and every point. The figures alone show that you are right. In 1930, there were about 9 annulments per year in the USA, whereas in 1989, there were more than 61,000 and in 1991 there were even more than that.

 

[puzzleannie]

tossolul:

How can a man and woman who have been married for 30 years, and had 3 children possibly be given an annulment? How can someone possibly say that that marraige was invalid after having been together for almost half of a human life and sharing 3 children together? .

what happened during that 30 years has nothing to do with grounds for annulment. A decree of nullity is issued by the tribunal of the diocese after an exhaustive investigation, in which both parties and witnesses they provide tell their stories, only if the conditions required for valid consent existed at the time of the marriage. The conditions are specific, not vague, and are judged on evidence pertaining to the circumstances existing at the time vows were exchanged. What happened after the wedding is relevant only if it sheds light on those circumstances.

The children of the marriage are legitimate, their status is not affected in any way. We either accept the authority of the Church in this matter, or as in so many other areas, we reject it.

we do not know and cannot comment on the possible grounds for annulment, like confession, this is confidential.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

A decree of nullity means that there was never a sacramental marriage to begin with, though there most certainly was a civil marriage. Therefore, neither the duration of the marriage, nor fruits (children) have any bearing on whether the capacity for consent for a sacramental marriage was there AT THE TIME OF THE MARRIAGE VOWS.

Since the marriage was entered into with at least ONE of the parties either in full consent, or THINKING s/he was in consent, the children of that marriage are and remain legitimate.

Although it may be hard for you right now (is this your parents’ case?) please try to understand that while the DIVORCE (the civil action) was what ended your parents’ civil marriage, the decree of nullity, far from being hurtful or hateful, is a HEALING PROCESS.

What it says is that there was some reason that the two parties could not be sacramentally married. It doesn’t say that they were WEAK, were FAILURES, were miserable rats, etc. (unlike divorce all too often). Rather than focusing on who was wrong, who did what, etc., it focuses on HOW people came to the marriage, and what was needed but not there in one or both, without blaming them for things which they themselves did not understand, or did not understand fully. While there might be wrong, indeed great wrong, in a party (or both parties) both are judged with charity, compassion, and love.

God bless your family–and you are a family. You are not annulled from family. You are not a mistake no matter what the circumstances are around your parents or your birth; all children are born with equal dignity as human beings, and all mothers and fathers have dignity as human beings too. A decree of nullity does not make you or your parents inferior to others.

 

[stanley123]

puzzleannie:

The conditions are specific, not vague, and are judged on evidence pertaining to the circumstances existing at the time vows were exchanged. .

Have you read the book: ***Judging Invalidity ©2002, *By Fr. Lawrence G. Wrenn. This book is **“Designed as a practical companion to the author’s previous volume, The Invalid Marriage, this resource for tribunals, students and pastoral ministers contains 15 fictional marriage cases. These reflect the basic grounds for marital nullity established in the 1983 Code of Canon Law.”

**Reasons for annulment listed in Judging Invalidity ©2002, By Fr. Lawrence G. Wrenn
Working out a couple of hours a day in the gym.
Being described as arrogant and selfish with an “I don’t need anyone else” attitude.
Saving one’s salary in a personal account.
Seeming to be obsessed with one’s body (personal appearance).
Ignoring one’s parents on one occasion when they came for a visit.
Seeing the world as his apple. (Psychiatric expert’s term)

Never being satisfied with a gift given by one’s spouse.
Feeling chronically disenfranchised in one’s (spousal) relationship.
Not achieving the desired companionship and intimacy one wants in marriage.
Suffering abandonment issues over a father who died.

Protecting herself by putting a hard shell around herself.
Suffering from low self-esteem, self-absorption, and a need for attention.
Lacking emphathy and fearing intimacy.
Comparing oneself to others and always finding them happier.

About a month before the wedding he drove his mother to a family reunion, leaving her all alone to make preparations for the wedding.
The psychiatric expert described the respondent as porcupinish. He didn’t want people near him; surprises he liked even less. It was noted in the proceedings, however, that he was in love with another woman.

The petitioner’s mother always resented her. The mother was unreasonably strict and hypercritical.

 

[stanley123]

tossolul:

How can a man and woman who have been married for 30 years, and had 3 children possibly be given an annulment? How can someone possibly say that that marraige was invalid after having been together for almost half of a human life and sharing 3 children together? Wouldn’t that in a way be saying that the 3 children who are now married with their own children were invalid also? .

you might want to read the book: “Shattered Faith,” by the Sheila Rauch Kennedy. Here’s how her Catholic husband, Joseph Kennedy explains the Catholic theory of annulments to his non-Catholic wife: “Of course I think we had a true marriage. But that doesn’t matter now. I don’t believe this stuff. Nobody actually believes it. It’s just Catholic gobbledygook.”

I remember another case where a woman was suing the Catholic Church for granting an annulment. This case was presented on the US TV program 60 minutes. It involved a Lutheran lady who had been “married” for several years and had brought up a son in the Catholic faith. She said that she was suing the Catholic Church for fraud and misrepresentation. It went like this: there was never any question of an invalid marriage until her husband had started going out with a younger woman and haveing relations with her. At that point the husband wanted out of the present marriage with the Lutheran lady, and in with the younger girl. But he also wanted to be able to receive Holy Communion and did not want to leave the RCC. So he applied for an annulment on the grounds of degective consent, (after about 15 years of marriage). The Lutheran lady said that she was suing the RCC for fraud and misrepresentation because as a good Lutheran Christian she would never have lived with a man without being married to him, and that this deciseion of the RCC to grant the annulment was putting her in a bad light, like someone who was living with a man without the benefit of marriage. She said that she had fulfilled all of the vows and she had complied with the Church’s wishes that she bring up the children as Catholics. She said that the RCC had fraudulently deceived her into beleiving that she was married, while she was living with a man she thought to be her husband.
This was broadcast over 60 minutes a while back.

 

[tossolul]

John Higgins:

This sounds exactly like the second half of the Dr. Phil show today. He also had Dr. Edward Peters on to speak about Canon Law. One thing I thought was pretty cool was Dr. Phil kept referring to the Catholic Church as the Church, just like we do. I thought it was a fine segment.

John

Your right it does sound like the Dr. Phil show …because that is exactly what I am talking about. I didn’t see the Canon Law expert, because what the father was saying upset me so much that I turned the T.V. off.

This isn’t a personal issue in the respect that it happened to someone close to me- it’s a personal issue to me because divorce and thinking of our own wants and not sacrificing for others is wrecking our society.

It is personal on the level that a year ago I was seriously considering divorce. I was looking for something anywhere to tell me it would be O.K. to leave my husband for another man. I was unhappy- and this other man would have made me happy. I had 3 young children. Through God’s grace I learned a very important lesson through my trial. There is never a reason to break a promise to God. God does not give you more than you can handle. If you give up self and look to Him to guide you- He will work miracles for you. Prayer changes people. I have seen it in my husband. He is now a man that I never dreamed a year ago that he could have been. God can change peoples hearts. If your working for His will and not your own, He will show you things you never dreamed could happen- but first you have to give up self, and look towards God. His ways are not ours, and sometimes things it seems we need to do to be in line with His will do not make sense to our human minds- but if we trust in Him, He will lead us to Him.

Divorce has caused more harm than I think most people think. We are the first parents our children know- once they grow up and don’t need us they will hopefully grow to know better their real parents (God our Father, and Mary our Mother). If in our time that God graces us with we do not show them how to Love (Unconditionally), Trust, Honour, and Obey. If we do not teach them the 3 greatest of Gifts- Faith, Hope, and Love; if we look only at our own needs and forget about the importance of Love…true, unconditional love that we promise in our marraige vows-------than when they grow up- firstly. why will they see it necessary to keep thier marraige vows? and secondly- they will not have learned what is needed to grow towards their real parents. They need to understand the concept of Unconditional Love in order to understand why God would love them when they sin and hurt Him. They won’t trust that He will always be with them, no matter what. They will see Him as someone who only loves the people who are Good, and since they have already failed- whats the use in trying.

We are the first god’s our children know. We have a huge responsibility to teach them what God is all about. UNCONDITIONAL LOVE. Divorce is not part of that equation.

 

[Karin]

tossolul:

Your right it does sound like the Dr. Phil show …because that is exactly what I am talking about. I didn’t see the Canon Law expert, because what the father was saying upset me so much that I turned the T.V. off.

This isn’t a personal issue in the respect that it happened to someone close to me- it’s a personal issue to me because divorce and thinking of our own wants and not sacrificing for others is wrecking our society.

It is personal on the level that a year ago I was seriously considering divorce. I was looking for something anywhere to tell me it would be O.K. to leave my husband for another man. I was unhappy- and this other man would have made me happy. I had 3 young children. Through God’s grace I learned a very important lesson through my trial. There is never a reason to break a promise to God. God does not give you more than you can handle. If you give up self and look to Him to guide you- He will work miracles for you. Prayer changes people. I have seen it in my husband. He is now a man that I never dreamed a year ago that he could have been. God can change peoples hearts. If your working for His will and not your own, He will show you things you never dreamed could happen- but first you have to give up self, and look towards God. His ways are not ours, and sometimes things it seems we need to do to be in line with His will do not make sense to our human minds- but if we trust in Him, He will lead us to Him.

Divorce has caused more harm than I think most people think. We are the first parents our children know- once they grow up and don’t need us they will hopefully grow to know better their real parents (God our Father, and Mary our Mother). If in our time that God graces us with we do not show them how to Love (Unconditionally), Trust, Honour, and Obey. If we do not teach them the 3 greatest of Gifts- Faith, Hope, and Love; if we look only at our own needs and forget about the importance of Love…true, unconditional love that we promise in our marraige vows-------than when they grow up- firstly. why will they see it necessary to keep thier marraige vows? and secondly- they will not have learned what is needed to grow towards their real parents. They need to understand the concept of Unconditional Love in order to understand why God would love them when they sin and hurt Him. They won’t trust that He will always be with them, no matter what. They will see Him as someone who only loves the people who are Good, and since they have already failed- whats the use in trying.

We are the first god’s our children know. We have a huge responsibility to teach them what God is all about. UNCONDITIONAL LOVE.** Divorce is not part of that equation./**QUOTE]
I have to disagree with your last sentence!
Divorce is ACCEPTABLE if their is ABUSE going on. TO stay in a marriage where ABUSE is prevalent does more harm than good for the person being abused and the KIDS!

 

[tossolul]

Just as a side…

I am not trying to say anything is wrong in the Church or attack it’s decisions.

It is the members of the Church that are my focus in my statements not the Church itself.

So many people have allowed their hearts to become hardened through Pride, Hatred, Jealousy, Lust. Once we allow that to happen it is harder to see, and feel God in our lives. Then we are left to fend for ourselves, only because we don’t see or feel Him- not because He isn’t there waiting for us to soften our hearts so we can follow Him.

It is this world that needs to change.

 

[tossolul]

Karin- That is something that I also thought, but then left out. I agree, to put your life endanger is not a situation you should stay in. what I believe is that in those situations you should immediately remove yourself and your children from the home. Find shelter away from the abuse, and spend every free moment you have praying to God to change the man you are married to into someone who longs to follow God.

IF you choose to divorce this man and not forgive, not pray for him- then he will go into another relationship with an unsuspecting woman, and she will then be you. That is why I believe it is so important to pray for people who are lost. Forgive, and pray- no matter how hard it is for you. God will reward you for your efforts. But I agree to not stay in harms way- do it from a safe Shelter.

 

[1ke]

I did not see the “Dr Phil” episode in question, but Dr Phil is no friend to the Catholic Church and I would not take anything on that show at face value. He’s not an expert on anything Catholic and you are likely not hearing the entire situation-- instead only what he and producers want the audience to hear.

Clearly whatever was said made you mad enough to turn it off-- a clear sign it wasn’t accurately representing anything related to the Catholic church but more likely allowing someone to vent their sour grapes and personal hurt at the church’s expense.

I do not watch Dr Phil b/c he supports Planned Parenthood and his advice is very “New Age” and I think he’s all about his show & the money he’s making and not so much about helping people.

 

[jrabs]

tossolul:

Does it seem like too many annulments seem to be granted, and for the wrong reasons? In this case the reason the annulment was looked into was because the man wanted to not only seperate from his wife, but the reason was to be married to another woman. .

There are many annulments granted today. It is an erroneous assumption to say there are too many since each case is based on the individual situations occuring at the time of marriage. YOu are not privey to the reasons unless you are one of the participants. You may have snippets of information, but rarely the whole pic.

But let’s look at all the invalid ways people marry today: It is in vogue to get married on beaches and cruise ships, beautiful chapels of other faiths, back yard gardens, in Vegas and numerous romantic places. Great for photo ops, yet this is defect of form. No sacramental vows are exchanged here. This is a civil marriage only but not a Catholic sacramental one.

Now lets look at all the people out there that are incapable of making a valid vow to God because they lack the mental capacity to do so. This can be due to alcoholism, physical abuse as a child leading to emotional issues, premarital pregnancy, and mentally instable people, insistance on birth control, etc. Oh the list in inexhaustible.

There is a problem in the way the vow was made. One or both of the parties was incapable of fulfilling the promise made to God and to the other partner.

I suspect if you are not one of the parites in the annulment, you may never really know fully the reasons for the annulment. What outsider may see - well we all know appearances can be deceptive. But the tribunals are not granting annulments willy nily based on the desires of someone simply to remarry.

And many annulment petitions are declined as well.

In any case, it is always a pity and hard when kids are involved.

tossolul:

what ever happened to when your marraige is in trouble you get together and pray to God for Him to help the love return? I know this can work. I’ve seen it happen. What good is making a promise to God, if you know there is a way to get out of it? There is never (IMO) a reason to break a promise you make to God. Prayer is always there to help you make it through. God will never give you more than you can handle- as long as your asking for His help, .

This is true. You make an excellent point. Prayer in families does help strengthen the bond.

But as humans, sometimes we ignore God’s will for us. Just because we opted to be married does not necessarily mean we married God’s pick for us. God will let us pick anyone. We can be impulsive, desperate and marry for selfish, ungodly reasons…for money, for security, to escape from situations, to spite our parents, to conquer rejection, to give children a missing parent…who knows.

We do make mistakes and sometimes God calls us to work through our mistakes and bear our trials and decisions. He helps us in these times. But I do not believe that God wants us to stay in all situations. Only deep prayer and discernment will tell us if that is true.

There are times when annulments are great. They are tremendously healing.

tossolul:

Divorce is wrecking our society. How are children supposed to grow up knowing what True Unconditional Love is, when they are not taught it by their parents!

Divorce is horrible and is wrecking our society. I agree.

Now the matter of loving your children…
This has nothing to do with an annulment. It is the function of the parent regardless of the annulment. As a parent and a recipient of an annulment (received with no future marriage partner in mind), I show my children heaps of love. They will never know the reasons behind my annulment because that could be emotionally damaging to them, yet we will daily pray for daddy and the strength of the family.

But when one believes they married X and receive Y, they did not get what they thought in a capable marriage partner. As in the case of mental illness for example, one can skillfully hide and manipulate mental illness for quite some time before marriage - given the fact that the two are not cohabitating before marriage. Yet this person can be completely incapable of making/keeping a promise before God.

If you are one of the parties in this process or a child of such, please find God’s healing touch for all involved.

 

[Brendan]

stanley123:

Just to give my personal opinion on it, I would say that you are absolutely correct on each and every point. The figures alone show that you are right. In 1930, there were about 9 annulments per year in the USA, whereas in 1989, there were more than 61,000 and in 1991 there were even more than that.

One thing to remember. Many dioceses, contrary to Canon Law did not even have Marriage Tribunals prior to the 1960’s.

This violated a persons Canonical right to have their petition and evidnece hear by the Church in a competent Tribunal.

 

[manualman]

I would note that the findings of a tribunal are a prudential judgement and one not made under the teaching authority of the church. They are NOT infallible.

For once I agree with stanley123 that the church in the US gives out annulments like candy. Basically, if you both weren’t nearly a saint at the time you got married, you can get an annulment (if you know how to phrase your case). Somehow, I don’t think this fits well with Jesus words about no man separating what God has joined. Frankly, it makes nearly ALL catholic weddings meaningless since we ALL have substantial defects when we are that young!

I don’t believe the current focus on the conditions on the DAY of the wedding is appropriate. For some things, maybe. Form, for example, as noted above. For other things, not so much. Remember, it is the COUPLE that confects the sacrament on one another. The priest merely blesses them. Therefore, I don’t see why things like being closed to kids, intention to use birth control, immaturity, etc ON THE WEDDING DAY matter if those issues are resolved/repented of during the marriage, but then 30 years later, something goes wrong and they want out.

Wrong! If during, their marriage they matured, became open to children, forswore contraception, prayed together, sacrificed for each other, compromised their own desires for love, etc. Then ‘grew apart’ later and decided to divorce. No problem. Annulment granted since a defect was present on the wedding day. The other 30 years don’t matter.

That’s just plain legalistic and smacks of what was wrong with catholic moral theology before Vatican II. It ignores the implications of the catholic teaching that it is the couple who confect the sacrament on one another. Given that prudential judgement does NOT enjoy the charism of infallibility, I think the possibility must be considered strongly that the volume of annulments granted today has something to do with unwillingness on the part of bishops to make unpopular stands on principle. It is an easy way out.

 

[BillP]

All of you people who think “the Church gives out too many annullment today”.

SPECIFICALLY, which ones would you decline?

I want names here people. And a bit of background on why you personally disagree with the Church’s decision IN THAT SPECIFIC CASE.

Or are you just (uncharitably!) assuming the “they can’t all be valid”?

 

[tossolul]

1ke:

I did not see the “Dr Phil” episode in question, but Dr Phil is no friend to the Catholic Church and I would not take anything on that show at face value. He’s not an expert on anything Catholic and you are likely not hearing the entire situation-- instead only what he and producers want the audience to hear.

Clearly whatever was said made you mad enough to turn it off-- a clear sign it wasn’t accurately representing anything related to the Catholic church but more likely allowing someone to vent their sour grapes and personal hurt at the church’s expense.

I do not watch Dr Phil b/c he supports Planned Parenthood and his advice is very “New Age” and I think he’s all about his show & the money he’s making and not so much about helping people.

I stopped watching Dr. Phil and Oprah also a year or two ago. I agree with the fact that they are more of the New Age/wordly thinking.

I was sick, and so for some reason while wanting a break from rest I turned the T.V. on, and this is what was on.

No matter what show it is, it does not change the fact that the father was Catholic, married for 30 years, and got a divorce to remarry another woman. This is what was upsetting to me…the fact that instead of sacrificing his love for this other woman to keep his marraige together, he instead choose the path of self; got a divorce, and looked into receiving an annulment for the sole purpose of marrying this other woman. These are facts- and this, I am positive is not a solo instance. I believe it happens very often that people instead of sacrificing their own desires, instead choose the path of self- which leads to divorce- which leads to death. It is not the narrow path we are told to follow, but the very wide path…And it is very appealing. I know, because I was on it. It is so easy to justify your decision.

It’s very easy to think of reasons to substantiate our feelings and desires- it is not quite so easy to forgive, Love, look to God, and follow his narrow path- that does not include reasons or excuses for our decisions but only obedience to His will. I believe He makes His feelings quite clear in the bible about divorce. To me that should be enough to convince people to Keep their promises to Him.

I also was someone who was misled as to who my husband was at the time of marraige. I also could use the excuse that I was going through treatment for my eating disorder, which was taking over my life and was all that I could think of at the time. I didn’t know love. Then I got pregnant. So I could also use the excuse that I got married for the child- which was the main reason I did.

The thing is, making excuses does not change the fact that we Made a Promise to God- and there is never a reason to break a promise to God.

Before I went through this a year or two ago…my husband was not a person I could love. I had every reason to leave, but thanks to some help I was shown what would happen to not only me but my children if I made that choice. I didn’t feel like I deserved this help, but because of it I stayed with my husband even though at the time it felt like death to me. There was no part of me that wanted to live the rest of my life with him. It was a choice that AT THE TIME I made solely for my children and for my soul. It took a good year of sacrifice, prayer, and trust in God… but now I could not imagine living my life without him. I am in love with him now. More in Love than I was when we were married, because I didn’t know what Love was then, but now I do, and my children will also. God not only used my prayers to change my husband, but He also changed me. God can do anything if you give Him a chance and really Trust in Him.

 

[Karin]

We all know that a divorce and annulment are different?!
There are people that have grounds for an ANNULMENT and a DIVORCE and we get them.
WHat is your issue with this? Are you upset becuase the Church agrees that our marriage was not sacramental (hence invalid) and granted the annulment? Or are you upset that we would even consider this (annulment/divorce)?

 

[tossolul]

To be truly divorced and not married in the eyes of the Catholic church you need to have an annulment…is this correct? So to me, since I’m talking on a Catholic Forum, I didn’t see the need to get too specific.

and it is in general divorce that is upsetting me- for Catholics a true divorce/seperation of the marraige union does not take place until the annulment has been passed.