Annulments

[thistle]

I read an article which gave some interesting statistics on annulments. I haven’t formed any opinion yet but I would be interested to hear views on this:

The USA has only 6% of the world’s Catholics but 75% of the world’s annulments.

Does this mean the annulment process is somehow being abused in the US? Are American Catholic marriages breaking up more than the rest of the world?

Any thoughts?

 

[puzzleannie]

2 dozen other threads on this precise question
if you want a retread, suggest we stick to facts when making claims, otherwise label it as personal opinion, not a papal pronouncement

IMO based on statistics and personal experience with couples and families, is that 75% of Catholics enter into marriage without proper intent and do not exchange valid consent. premarital history and ABC are a large part of the reason, but not the only factors, hence the high annulment rate.

no doubt there are problems and abuses to be dealt with, which should begin in the catechesis on marriage, family and sexuality, and in better marriage preparation.

 

[JRKH]

Take a look here and you’ll see the whole thing thrashed out ad nausium…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=207701

Peace
James

 

[1ke]

I read an article which gave some interesting statistics on annulments. I haven’t formed any opinion yet but I would be interested to hear views on this:

The USA has only 6% of the world’s Catholics but 75% of the world’s annulments.

Does this mean the annulment process is somehow being abused in the US? Are American Catholic marriages breaking up more than the rest of the world?

Any thoughts?

Thistle, NO it absolutely does NOT mean this.

First, “statistics” can be used to say a lot of things that aren’t true.

You CANNOT make a blanket statement like you are attempting to do.

There are so many factors to consider. Some of these factors include:

• divorce law differences-- in some countries divorce is very difficult to obtain or illegal
• number of Catholics in the US who marry outside the Catholic form and then later come back to Church
• number of Protestants with prior marriages wanting to marry a Catholic or convert to Catholicism that go through the Tribunal process
• Practice of the faith (America is much more religious in general than many other countries)-- I have many friends in Europe, and they just don’t care about marriage or the Church… they cohabit, marry civilly, and never seek a marriage in the church or nullity b/c they don’t even go to church

I could go on and on. Please, do not denigrate the hard-working Tribunal members based on some number you read in an article.

This will be my only post on this topic, b/c there are too many on this board who just want to bash the Tribunals … and all of their proceedings are confidential and therefore it is purely speculation and innuendo, NOT facts.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I read an article which gave some interesting statistics on annulments. I haven’t formed any opinion yet but I would be interested to hear views on this:

The USA has only 6% of the world’s Catholics but 75% of the world’s annulments.

Does this mean the annulment process is somehow being abused in the US? Are American Catholic marriages breaking up more than the rest of the world?

Any thoughts?

It could also mean that there are way more invalid Marriages in the USA, because of the lack of adequate catechesis, especially about the Sacraments and the attitude of american society in general.

 

[JimG]

It could also mean that there are way more invalid Marriages in the USA, because of the lack of adequate catechesis, especially about the Sacraments and the attitude of american society in general.

I used to think that explanation was a cop-out, but I have changed my mind. My opinion is that puzzleanne has it right: The huge increase in the number of annulments in the United States means that there has been a huge increase in the number of invalid marriages.

To me, the startling increase in the numbers of annulments in the U.S. in the space of one generation must mean either that people are abusing the tribunal process in vast numbers, or that there really has been a vast increase in the numbers of invalid marriages. I believe that the tribunals are doing their jobs, and the numbers of invalid marriages have skyrocketed. The reasons for that are numerous, but contraception and unilateral (“no-fault”) divorce are two of the big ones.

PS: I might add that even though I think that most annulment cases are probably decided “correctly,” the whole situation has still been a disaster for children.

 

[Phemie]

I used to think that explanation was a cop-out, but I have changed my mind. My opinion is that puzzleanne has it right: The huge increase in the number of annulments in the United States means that there has been a huge increase in the number of invalid marriages.

I’m 54. Growing up I didn’t know even ONE DIVORCED Catholic, because it just wasn’t done. Even if they were miserable they stayed married. Today there are several divorced people in my own small parish and I know dozens of others.

FWIW, I lived next door to a woman who was abused by her husband, as was their oldest child, a daughter, who had been the reason for their marriage. After an incident when he pointed a gun at her even the pastor advised her to ‘get out’. But she stayed and went on to have 4 more children and they are still together in their 70s . Today she’d probably divorce him after the first beating and be granted a decree of nullity for lack of free consent but back in the 1950s you didn’t do that.

 

[IrishAm]

I read an article which gave some interesting statistics on annulments. I haven’t formed any opinion yet but I would be interested to hear views on this:

The USA has only 6% of the world’s Catholics but 75% of the world’s annulments.

Does this mean the annulment process is somehow being abused in the US? Are American Catholic marriages breaking up more than the rest of the world?

Any thoughts?

Our pastor mentioned recently that, unlike most of the world, EVERY DIOCESE IN AMERICA has a tribunal which is able to handle annulment applications. That opens the process to almost all American Catholics, regardless of where they are located, who they “know,” or what their financial resources are. It does affect the numbers, which is what statistics are all about.

 

[thistle]

2 dozen other threads on this precise question
if you want a retread, suggest we stick to facts when making claims, otherwise label it as personal opinion, not a papal pronouncement

IMO based on statistics and personal experience with couples and families, is that 75% of Catholics enter into marriage without proper intent and do not exchange valid consent. premarital history and ABC are a large part of the reason, but not the only factors, hence the high annulment rate.

no doubt there are problems and abuses to be dealt with, which should begin in the catechesis on marriage, family and sexuality, and in better marriage preparation.

Why are you so hostile? I never made any claims nor expressed any opinions. I simply said I read an article. Why don’t you read my post again.

By the way, still without expressing any opinion, is it a coincidence that prior to Vatican II annulments in the US were rare but after Vatican II there appears to have been an explosion in annulments. What would explain that?

 

[JimG]

I’m 54. Growing up I didn’t know even ONE DIVORCED Catholic, because it just wasn’t done. Even if they were miserable they stayed married. Today there are several divorced people in my own small parish and I know dozens of others.

FWIW, I lived next door to a woman who was abused by her husband, as was their oldest child, a daughter, who had been the reason for their marriage. After an incident when he pointed a gun at her even the pastor advised her to ‘get out’. But she stayed and went on to have 4 more children and they are still together in their 70s . Today she’d probably divorce him after the first beating and be granted a decree of nullity for lack of free consent but back in the 1950s you didn’t do that.

It should also be mentioned that not only Catholic ‘annulments’ but divorce in all sectors of society was much more rare in the past. Like you, I didn’t know even one divorced Catholic back then; in fact there were no divorces even within my neighborhood or among my acquaintances, even among my non-Catholic friends. The mere fact of a divorce could destroy an actor’s or a politician’s career.

 

[IrishAm]

By the way, still without expressing any opinion, is it a coincidence that prior to Vatican II annulments in the US were rare but after Vatican II there appears to have been an explosion in annulments. What would explain that?

As JimG points out, Vatican II did not occur in a vacuum; American society and how it views marriage and the family has changed greatly since Vatican II and, for weal or for woe, how Catholics live their lives reflect that change. Prior to V2, and even later, about the only way you could obtain a declaration of nullity --even if the marriage was painfully invalid – was to be rich, famous and/or well connected. Not sure we want to go back to those days, either. . . .

 

[dulcissima]

I’m 54. Growing up I didn’t know even ONE DIVORCED Catholic, because it just wasn’t done. Even if they were miserable they stayed married. Today there are several divorced people in my own small parish and I know dozens of others.

FWIW, I lived next door to a woman who was abused by her husband, as was their oldest child, a daughter, who had been the reason for their marriage. After an incident when he pointed a gun at her even the pastor advised her to ‘get out’. But she stayed and went on to have 4 more children and they are still together in their 70s . Today she’d probably divorce him after the first beating and be granted a decree of nullity for lack of free consent but back in the 1950s you didn’t do that.

And her kids and grandkids have probably paid the price growing up in a dysfuncational family. Those problems have an effect on the entire family for generations to come. I have an aunt who stayed as well, and her daughter and granddaughter are reliving what they grew up with. Divorce not being an option is not really a healthy thing, and fortunately the Church recognizes that.

Just hoping that you weren’t holding that up as an example of why staying married no matter what is not necessarily a good thing.

 

[Phemie]

And her kids and grandkids have probably paid the price growing up in a dysfuncational family. Those problems have an effect on the entire family for generations to come. I have an aunt who stayed as well, and her daughter and granddaughter are reliving what they grew up with. Divorce not being an option is not really a healthy thing, and fortunately the Church recognizes that.

Just hoping that you weren’t holding that up as an example of why staying married no matter what is not necessarily a good thing.

I was only holding it up as an example of the way society has changed, particularly for Catholics. Their marriage was most likely invalid, but without a divorce there was no way to have it investigated and Catholics didn’t divorce.

It’s logical that a greater number of divorces = a greater number of decrees of nullity.

 

[YADA]

These statistice really are not meaningful…

First consider that your two pieces of information … number of US Catholics as a percentage of the world catholic population and the number of annulments granted in the US as a percentage of the total nuber of catholic annulments …

Many of the annulments granted in the US are annullments that are granted for the marriage that occurred between two non-catholics …

In America many catholics marry non -catholics … if that non catholic was married [to another non-catholic] an annullment [with an affirmative decision] is required before a ‘catholic’ wedding is granted …

And lest you believe that they are always decided in the affimative …I personally know of a Lutheran -who became catholic - previousy married to another Lutheran, then divorced, who after converting met and desired to marry another catholic … the Lutheran marriage between the two Lutheran’s was found to be a Sacramentally valid marriage … thus the man was not allowed to contract a catholic marriage …

To really have valid data to make an analysis upon you need to know numbers of marriages [broken down by catholic/catholic, catholic/non-catholic, and non-catholc/non-catholic], catholic divorce rates and country divorce rates, church anullments [broken down by catholic/catholic,catholic/non-catholic, and non-catholc/non-catholic] for the US and the catholic world at large… it also would be good to have literacy rates and other information like rates for dissertion [often called the poor man’s divorce before the era of the no fault divorce laws] and probably other data …

Then a person could make some informed conclusions …

Sadly, the information provided is in adequate at best …

 

[thistle]

These statistice really are not meaningful…

First consider that your two pieces of information … number of US Catholics as a percentage of the world catholic population and the number of annulments granted in the US as a percentage of the total nuber of catholic annulments …

Many of the annulments granted in the US are annullments that are granted for the marriage that occurred between two non-catholics …

In America many catholics marry non -catholics … if that non catholic was married [to another non-catholic] an annullment [with an affirmative decision] is required before a ‘catholic’ wedding is granted …

And lest you believe that they are always decided in the affimative …I personally know of a Lutheran -who became catholic - previousy married to another Lutheran, then divorced, who after converting met and desired to marry another catholic … the Lutheran marriage between the two Lutheran’s was found to be a Sacramentally valid marriage … thus the man was not allowed to contract a catholic marriage …

To really have valid data to make an analysis upon you need to know numbers of marriages [broken down by catholic/catholic, catholic/non-catholic, and non-catholc/non-catholic], catholic divorce rates and country divorce rates, church anullments [broken down by catholic/catholic,catholic/non-catholic, and non-catholc/non-catholic] for the US and the catholic world at large… it also would be good to have literacy rates and other information like rates for dissertion [often called the poor man’s divorce before the era of the no fault divorce laws] and probably other data …

Then a person could make some informed conclusions …

Sadly, the information provided is in adequate at best …

Okay then read the entire article which is from a Catholic website. Also as far as I can tell the entire article is about Catholic annulments and nothing about non-Catholics.

catholic.net/RCC/Periodicals/Homiletic/07-96/3/3.html

 

[JRKH]

I read an article which gave some interesting statistics on annulments. I haven’t formed any opinion yet but I would be interested to hear views on this:

The USA has only 6% of the world’s Catholics but 75% of the world’s annulments.

Does this mean the annulment process is somehow being abused in the US? Are American Catholic marriages breaking up more than the rest of the world?

Any thoughts?

I am sorry you took annie’s response as hostile, I don’t believe she meant it that way.

May I ask - Did you read over the thread I linked to in my earlier post?

 

[Phemie]

Okay then read the entire article which is from a Catholic website. Also as far as I can tell the entire article is about Catholic annulments and nothing about non-Catholics.

catholic.net/RCC/Periodicals/Homiletic/07-96/3/3.html

To figure out the percentage you take the total number of decrees of nullity granted. The total would include decrees granted based on lack of canonical form, decrees granted to non-Catholics so that they could marry in the Catholic church, etc.

 

[puzzleannie]

Why are you so hostile? I never made any claims nor expressed any opinions. I simply said I read an article. Why don’t you read my post again.

By the way, still without expressing any opinion, is it a coincidence that prior to Vatican II annulments in the US were rare but after Vatican II there appears to have been an explosion in annulments. What would explain that?

how is it hostile to observe that
a) this very question has been discussed many times here, most recently in the last couple of months
b) most people participating in those discussions pose their own opinions or amusing annulment anecdotes as gospel truth
c) offering an answer to your direct question, namely “why is that?”.

if you don’t want an answer don’t ask the question
that is not hostility that is reality

note OP also offers a quote without a source, without a link, as truth, without any thing to back it up, and then solicits comment on it, as if it were fact. how is asking for documentation of radical claims hostile?

 

[YADA]

Okay then read the entire article which is from a Catholic website. Also as far as I can tell the entire article is about Catholic annulments and nothing about non-Catholics.

catholic.net/RCC/Periodicals/Homiletic/07-96/3/3.html

I read your linked article: What you are failing to recognize is that non-catholics [married outside of any catholic involvemnet] receive “catholic annulments” and are included in the broad statistics …

For example [and I personally know these situations were submitted]

Two non-catholics [one baptized in the Church of Christ and one party non baptized] married before a justicce of the peace in 1976. They later divorced …

Then in 1995 the person who was baptized entered the catholic church …

Now that person [once protestant, now catholic] wants to marry a catholic person in a catholic rite … they cannot because the Church presumes the first marriage was valid … in order to marry, this [now catholic] person must apply TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH for an annulment to determine is their first marriage was sacramental or not … this marrige decision [annulment granted or held sacramental] is included in the 75% [granted] or [25%] affirmed… all this and the other person was not a catholic … they [the non-catholic ex spouse] still recieved all the paperwork, they were to provide witnesss, they were provided an advocate, a defender of the bond was assigned … the entire process.

In this case, the marriage was not held as sacramental …

Case 2: Two Lutherans marry in a Lutheran ceremony in the late 1980’s. They later divorce. Years later [2000], one party becomes catholic and seeks to marry a catholic in a catholic ceremony … this Lutheran first marriage was submitted for a decision … again … TO THE DIOCESE IN WHICH THE [NOW] CATHOLIC PERSON LIVED… and again this case in factored in the statistics…

In this case, the marriage was held as sacramental …

Now you can see that the dynamics of a country like the US could impact the ‘statistics’ in a major way … I am fairly certain [but do not have the numbers] that in the US, the church decides far more “non-catholic” marriage annulment cases than in any other country … [and positively more than in any third world or developing country]… And possibly more than any other European Country because we [US] are more diverse…

We are a huge country with a very diverse population … many catholics do not marry other catholics [unlike say North Ireland where the catholic population is larger] Our melting pot even brings catholics who are culturally diverse from other catholics [this goes for non-catholics too].

Statistical analysis is complex and if a person does not look at the data in a complete way … false assumptions can be made …

Its like saying that 65% of all people who died before the age of 30 ate dill pickles ergo dill pickles are a major cause of death in people under the age of thirty…

 

[IrishAm]

The secularization of Europe has also skewed the numbers. Americans tend to think of themselves as religious (a whole 'nother thread needed as to whether or not that is true ), and, therefore, where your “average European Catholic” (however that may be defined) would remarry outside the Church without ever thinking of seeking an annulment, your “average American Catholic” (same caveat) would be much more likely to seek the Church’s sanction of their new marriage. And up go the numbers again.